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Why would anyone actually vote Conservative?

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Original post by Luke Kostanjsek
I voted Conservative almost exclusively on the basis of economic policy. It was what mattered to me most, given the current state of global economic affairs, and Labour's economic policy was decidedly lacklustre. And probably even more important, I would far rather have the countries economy in the hands of George Osborne than Ed Balls. And I will probably continue to vote Conservative at the next election, because Labour's economic policy is now even more laughable, and their shadow chancellor even less reputable.


Original post by gr8wizard10
because economic policy


What about their economic policy? They've barely had any impact on the deficit over the last 6 years, continually missing and readjusting their targets. Most of the deficit reduction we have seen is probably due to the fact that we came out of a global recession and has nothing to do with policy. They've made cuts which have severely damaged public services and infrastructure, and offset any possible net gain from this by significantly reducing taxes on the richest people and companies.

Austerity very clearly doesn't work.

Original post by Inazuma
It's quite simple.Conservatives aim to help and enable to people to be free to aspire and succeed in life for themselves.Labour however have the very misguided aim of trying to provide everything for everyone regardless of merit/effort, and regardless of the economic impossibility. I don't deny they have some noble aims, but they have absolutely no common sense about it.
Really? How exactly are they enabling me to aspire and succeed? My school can't afford ****ing paper and the buildings are falling to pieces, I couldn't get mental health care from the NHS due to cuts, and I won't even have enough money to cover accommodation at university.I guess it's easy to delude yourself when you're wealthy enough that none of this affects you.
Original post by JordanL_

Really? How exactly are they enabling me to aspire and succeed? My school can't afford ****ing paper and the buildings are falling to pieces, I couldn't get mental health care from the NHS due to cuts, and I won't even have enough money to cover accommodation at university.I guess it's easy to delude yourself when you're wealthy enough that none of this affects you.


By NHS cuts you mean the billions of additional funding? Including to MH?
Sorry that you couldn't, but that will hopefully change once the ludicrous spending has been curbed and it becomes self-sustainable. My good friend has been well helped by their services over the years.

As to uni, that's why you *work* if you need to! It's not a right to go to uni, jesus christ. The maximum grants/ loans were very generous, and to not cover accomm you'd have to be spending far too much.

Shame that you have to respond with assumptive ad hominem arguments to try to refute my opinion, rather pathetic.
Original post by TSRFT8
It is the biggest proportion, the second biggest goes to the NHS and third goes to state pension. So again i stick with my thesis.

EDIT: Just read your post properly you literally couldnt string a sentence together without contradicting yourself.


Nop. 7% of taxes go on benefits and that includes everything such as disabled benefits. Benefit fraud is estimated at 0.7% by the govt.
Original post by Inazuma
It's quite simple.

Conservatives aim to help and enable to people to be free to aspire and succeed in life for themselves


Oh dear you're cringey. What utter nonsense, hollow rhetoric.


Helping people to be free by cutting tax credits for the lowest paid? Helping people to be free by cutting disability benefits to the most vulnerable?
Go and stand in the corner.
Original post by Bornblue
Oh dear you're cringey. What utter nonsense, hollow rhetoric.


Helping people to be free by cutting tax credits for the lowest paid? Helping people to be free by cutting disability benefits to the most vulnerable?
Go and stand in the corner.


It's really adorable how aggressive people are.
Take a chill pill, you intolerant people.

And for reference, the majority of Cons I know disagreed with both those measures.

Tax credits I do think need to be eliminated, but not right now. (It doesn't make sense to be paying people what companies ought to be paying, it's a ridiculous system)

I use the general statement because I'm not particularly impressed by the party at the minute, so couldn't be referring to specifics. I use the rhetoric because that is what us true Cons believe and stand for.
Original post by Inazuma
By NHS cuts you mean the billions of additional funding? Including to MH?
Sorry that you couldn't, but that will hopefully change once the ludicrous spending has been curbed and it becomes self-sustainable. My good friend has been well helped by their services over the years.

As to uni, that's why you *work* if you need to! It's not a right to go to uni, jesus christ. The maximum grants/ loans were very generous, and to not cover accomm you'd have to be spending far too much.

Shame that you have to respond with assumptive ad hominem arguments to try to refute my opinion, rather pathetic.


You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Despite what Tory PR tell you, George Osborne has cut UK health spending by 20%. The fact that you try to deny cuts to mental health shows that you really do have your head buried deep in the sand because they've been very well documented.

I never said uni was a right, I simply asked how the Tories are enabling people to be free to aspire and be successful (your own words) by making it significantly harder for poorer people to go to university. As for spending too much, what? I'm talking about the standard price of accommodation at Durham uni, not en suite and potentially shared. My maintenance loan wouldn't cover that.
Original post by Inazuma
It's really adorable how aggressive people are.
Take a chill pill, you intolerant people.

And for reference, the majority of Cons I know disagreed with both those measures.

Tax credits I do think need to be eliminated, but not right now. (It doesn't make sense to be paying people what companies ought to be paying, it's a ridiculous system)

I use the general statement because I'm not particularly impressed by the party at the minute, so couldn't be referring to specifics. I use the rhetoric because that is what us true Cons believe and stand for.

I get angered by people who use nonsense, hollow sound bites in discussions.

That's not what you believe or stand for. You're no better than anyone else so stop pretending you are. The idea that the Tories 'just want to help people's dreams' is cringey, it's laughable. I don't like labour Bit dearly me I don't engage in that cringey tripe.

Yet you're beloved party wanted to take away disabled people's independence payments. That's not aspirational is it? Your party has increased zero hour contracts which provide workers no security, that's not aspirational. Your party wants to snatch every school out of the hands of local communities and parents and hand them over to private academy chains for a short term money making scheme. That's not aspirational.

please stop with the the utter cringey sound bites, enter the real world.
Original post by JordanL_
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Despite what Tory PR tell you, George Osborne has cut UK health spending by 20%. The fact that you try to deny cuts to mental health shows that you really do have your head buried deep in the sand because they've been very well documented.

I never said uni was a right, I simply asked how the Tories are enabling people to be free to aspire and be successful (your own words) by making it significantly harder for poorer people to go to university. As for spending too much, what? I'm talking about the standard price of accommodation at Durham uni, not en suite and potentially shared. My maintenance loan wouldn't cover that.


It's yet again cute how you ignore the fact that the money still needs to come from somewhere.
As I already said, my comment was re future improvements planned, I already wholly agree they need to be improved hence why I've shown my displeasure to certain actions in the past.

Going to uni is not the only way to be successful, don't be so silly, the fact you've also been indoctrinated into thinking it's the main route shows that. Uni shouldn't be for everyone, and far more people should be doing other things.
I can't find any prices on Durham uni accom, but at Bristol even the best is £7k, still under the maximum maintenance loan.

Original post by Bornblue
x


I'm sorry, but I don't reply to children playing with computers.
Grow up.
:h:
Original post by Inazuma
It's yet again cute how you ignore the fact that the money still needs to come from somewhere.
As I already said, my comment was re future improvements planned, I already wholly agree they need to be improved hence why I've shown my displeasure to certain actions in the past.

Going to uni is not the only way to be successful, don't be so silly, the fact you've also been indoctrinated into thinking it's the main route shows that. Uni shouldn't be for everyone, and far more people should be doing other things.
I can't find any prices on Durham uni accom, but at Bristol even the best is £7k, still under the maximum maintenance loan.



I'm sorry, but I don't reply to children playing with computers.
Grow up.
:h:

Telling someone to grow up when you converse in hollow applied pie sound bites rather than anything substantial is a good one.
Original post by Inazuma
It's yet again cute how you ignore the fact that the money still needs to come from somewhere.
As I already said, my comment was re future improvements planned, I already wholly agree they need to be improved hence why I've shown my displeasure to certain actions in the past.

Going to uni is not the only way to be successful, don't be so silly, the fact you've also been indoctrinated into thinking it's the main route shows that. Uni shouldn't be for everyone, and far more people should be doing other things.
I can't find any prices on Durham uni accom, but at Bristol even the best is £7k, still under the maximum maintenance loan.



I'm sorry, but I don't reply to children playing with computers.
Grow up.
:h:


How have I ignored the fact that money needs to come from somewhere? I explicitly mentioned earlier that the Conservatives cut taxes for the richest. That's where the money could come from.

I'm well aware that uni isn't the only way to be successful. Is that really your justification for making it harder for poor people to go? "Oh well, you'll just have to do something else!"

And you're still trying to claim that the Conservatives want to give everyone the opportunity to be successful?
Original post by JordanL_
x


Well here is 10 reasons why I would vote for those 'morons'...:laugh:

•

Long term economic plan (that is working)

•

1,000 Jobs a day - Since the conservatives have been in Government

•

Cutting taxes - lifted income tax allowance to £10,000

•

Giving young people a decent start - improving schools making them good or outstanding, funding apprenticeships etc

•

Making benefits more fair

•

Dignity and security in old age - (For years pensioners were treated poorly. The people who fought the Nazis and built our country were fobbed off with pitiful 75p increases in their pension. It was a disgrace – and we’ve turned it around. The State Pension is up by £950 a year)

•

More homes for young people

•

Protecting the NHS

•

Controlling EU migration

•

Backing troops - plan to invest at least £160 billion in new hardware to help protect troops

Original post by JordanL_
How have I ignored the fact that money needs to come from somewhere? I explicitly mentioned earlier that the Conservatives cut taxes for the richest. That's where the money could come from.

I'm well aware that uni isn't the only way to be successful. Is that really your justification for making it harder for poor people to go? "Oh well, you'll just have to do something else!"

And you're still trying to claim that the Conservatives want to give everyone the opportunity to be successful?


I'm afraid I haven't read the remainder of this thread as I didn't intend to be involved in any debates, I merely posted a simplification of why... :redface:
And see, I'd still have to disagree with that, so.

It's never been proven that fee rises etc made it harder - no fewer less well off people went to uni as a result of the rises to £9k. I also don't see how it's harder to get an extremely generous loan. And the payback system has got far more generous (to the likely detriment of govt income), so to say it's putting people off I don't believe is true.
The only people I see the system act harshly on are the middle income-rs who have no extra loan/grant, but who's family are unable to support them; and I'm still annoyed they haven't added caveats for siblings etc to solve that.
Original post by Ribenas
Well here is 10 reasons why I would vote for those 'morons'...:laugh:

•

Long term economic plan (that is working)


Is it?????????????? The deficit isn't even less than half what it was in 2010, despite MASSIVE cuts everywhere. We're getting to a point where there's not anything left to cut, and the deficit is still huge. It's likely that the only reason it's decreased at all is because the whole world has came out of a recession. Any money saved by cuts has been offset by the reduction in revenue from huge tax cuts to the richest people.

•

1,000 Jobs a day - Since the conservatives have been in Government


Because they got into government as we were coming out of a recession.

•

Cutting taxes - lifted income tax allowance to £10,000


Which once again only benefits the wealthy, because the poor save a little in their taxes but their services are all cut to ****.

•

Giving young people a decent start - improving schools making them good or outstanding, funding apprenticeships etc


Michael Gove's education reforms were a disaster. They were the exact opposite of what scientific evidence suggests we should be doing, and they were opposed by everyone relevant to education.

He's made schools good or outstanding by changing the way Ofsted rates them. If you double the size of the net you can't brag about scoring a few more goals. Instead of rating schools based on progress, they're based on grades. So well-off schools are at a huge advantage (because they take in well-off students, who are predisposed to achieve higher grades) while even the best poorer schools (who take in poorer students) are considered to be underperforming. The schools that need more funding the most end up getting the least because they're ****ed by Ofsted, and eventually the government uses these poor Ofsted ratings as a reason to turn these schools into academies.

Improving schools??????????? What????????? The Tories froze funding for schools. My school ran out of paper last year and they couldn't buy any more so we had to stop using worksheets. We use 50 year old science equipment and 10 year old computers. We get practical exam questions about data loggers and light gates and **** that we've never even seen because our school can't afford it, we're stuck in the past, modern science is like sci-fi to us. They're finally giving us the new building that we've been waiting like a decade for (and it won't be finished until after I leave) and it's even smaller than the one we have now. We already don't have enough space.

•

Dignity and security in old age - (For years pensioners were treated poorly. The people who fought the Nazis and built our country were fobbed off with pitiful 75p increases in their pension. It was a disgrace – and we’ve turned it around. The State Pension is up by £950 a year)


Elderly suicide rates are up and their social care has been cut.

•

Protecting the NHS


Do you genuinely believe this?

•

Backing troops - plan to invest at least £160 billion in new hardware to help protect troops


Spending £160 billion to protect troops that aren't fighting while cutting billions from healthcare, education and welfare.
Original post by JordanL_
What about their economic policy? They've barely had any impact on the deficit over the last 6 years, continually missing and readjusting their targets. Most of the deficit reduction we have seen is probably due to the fact that we came out of a global recession and has nothing to do with policy. They've made cuts which have severely damaged public services and infrastructure, and offset any possible net gain from this by significantly reducing taxes on the richest people and companies.

Austerity very clearly doesn't work.


That's an incredibly naive way of looking at things, on many different levels. Firstly, the fact that targets have been missed isn't indicative of a failing economic policy. Economics is hardly an exact science. Outside influences have huge effects on our economy; at the moment the most notable of these are the oil prices and the slowdown in the Chinese economy. Unless you're suggesting that when setting targets for the economy, the Chancellor should have somehow foresaw these things, then the claim that his economic policy is defunkt is ludicrous. I'll reserve judgement until 2020, when we'll see if Osborne has delivered on his promise of a budget surplus. But it's certainly far too soon - and I'd go so far as to say straight up wrong - to suggest austerity doesn't work.

You are aware the tax reductions have been largely to the benefit of small businesses rather than 'the richest people and companies'? WIthout running any figures, it seems to me that large corporate entities have at best broke even, though more likely than not they've lost out, and rich individuals most certainly have not profited. Middle Britain seems to have done best out of this government's term, and as the majority of Britons now belong to this group, the claim that the government is only looking out for the elite seems nonsensical.

We may have come out of a global recession, but we have largely dodged the pitfalls of the various eurozone crises, the falling oil prices, china's growth slowdown and a slew of other potential economic disaster. On top of this, we're the fastest growing economy in the G7 and set to overtake Germany as the fourth largest economy in the world. This would rather suggest that our economic policy is certainly working better than those of our closest rivals.

So all in all, it's pretty hard to claim that the Chancellor's economic policy is failing. Austerity would appear to be working as far as the big picture is concerned. The only other thing to consider is whether it neglects any members of society. I have reservations about some of the changes made to disability benefits, but aside from that there's nothing else that leaps out at me as unreasonable. Altogether, I think the Chancellor has actually done a pretty good job of putting the economy back together. There are a few things that I disagree with, but as a whole, his economic policy seems pretty sound.

Certainly, it's a damn sight better than what Labour have brought to the table. I mean, the calls from Labour to nationalise a failing, loss-making steelworks rather sums them up. Totally and utterly, economically illiterate.
Original post by Bill_Gates
You need a good relationship with Murdoch to have any chance of winning.


I can confirm this.

Whichever party the Sun newspaper is supporting, is the party that will gain the most votes.

However I must admit I think it's more correlation than causation. Newspapers don't have as big role in society as they did a few decades ago.
In answer to the question.

Who in their right mind would vote for a party which would decrease their own income?
Original post by JordanL_
x


May I ask who you support?
Reply 37
Avatar for Joseph54
Joseph54
What makes me laugh is that anyone who votes for the tories actually believes that we are in the midst of an economic crisis....wake up people...look around...do u really think this government is running out of money any time soon? Clearly u histort has left people's minds.... Making a decision based on the development of the economy is just plane silly....when there is no economic issue to begin with...it's all propaganda to invite fear and lead u in a direction toward their elitist goals.... People can say what they want about labour....but what I do recall under a labour government were daily changes that genuinely benefited the majority...everything thay has happened since tories....has crumbled everything...I mean look at the NHS. The next time u vote tories remember ur simply voting for an American government because that's exactly what they want.... And look at what a ridiculous country America is??!! It's sad but hey...what can u do...if the British are really this foolish then so be it.... Don't bite the hand that feeds u....at least labour were good at making sure u had that at least.
(edited 6 years ago)
The tories are the best of a rubbish bunch. No party really woos me in to vote for them, each party has something good about them, but then they chat rubbish about over stuff I am strongly aganist. All the other parties apart from the tories can't organize a booze up in a brewery for a bunch of recovering alcholics with low to zero will power. At the end of the day who ever wins means you just get fecked in a different position. I have never heard anyone say well that politcal party is working for me, everyone just moans about who ever runs the country regardless if they voted for them or not. Just stick a x in a box and let us get on with our pointless meaningless lifes and let them provide the illusion they are running the country for us, and not for their own personal greed or the greed of their family and friends.

We have dug ourselves into such a deep hole when any party suggests any serious solution to get out of it all the other parties just label them as looney left or alt right or fascists, you just can't win. If the government actually worked, the papers won't have any news stories to report on apart from good news, and good news doesn't sell papers.
because Theresa Bae is making England (and our provincial outlying states) great again.

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