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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    Academic ability is not commensurate with skills sets. As most people know being able to pass exams is not a measure of intelligence.
    I'm not quite sure what academic intelligence is supposed to measure these days, at least with respect to the arts, long gone are the days of beautiful hand binded book histories filled with rich family propaganda and elegant calligraphy and not some mass produced ugly quasi 'left, right' politics nonsense.
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    (Original post by Parasite)
    I agree with OP.

    The type of university you go to is not the "be all end all" factor. Of course it is advantageous to have attended a Russell group university and this becomes increasingly important depending on the career you intend to pursue. Medicine, science subjects, Anthropology and Psychology, just to state a few, are research based degrees, therefore attending a research focused university is favourable. However for Law, English and some Art based subjects, for example, the research quality of a uni becomes less relevant.

    I do believe reputation has some importance especially with first impressions, however you can still become a competitive candidate without having attended Oxbridge necessarily.

    It really does depend on your chosen study program!
    Not sure I agree on the research point. At undergrad, that has absolutely no influence.
    At masters level it shines a bit with the increased likelihood of getting published, just because more of your tutors will be pushing for that themselves (as gives uni research prestige).
    In terms of teaching, prestige doesn't matter at all.
    In reality it is kinda contrary to what you said with those subjects. They are actually some of the most immune to variance in quality of teaching between universities. Particularly, as far as I know, medicine and psychology.
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    Academic ability is not commensurate with skills sets. As most people know being able to pass exams is not a measure of intelligence.
    And getting into oxbridge is about more than just academic ability, hence the interviews and an application process very different to any other university in the uk.
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    (Original post by hedgemonkey)
    I know a leading recuitment agency that bins all applications from London Metropolitan. I rest my case.
    What's the agency called?
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    Not sure I agree on the research point. At undergrad, that has absolutely no influence.
    I disagree with this, research at under-graduate level is just as important. Not all science (natural and health) students want to study master/PHD programs so studying in a research led environment is helpful in providing skill sets that can improve employability. This is especially important if the person wants to go into the sciences immediately after they graduate. In medicine and psychology a like, new therapies and techniques are being developed every single day. Going to a Russel group puts you at a slight advantage. The importance of research for other subjects such as Law and English are of no relevance so attending non-Russel groups unis won't put you at a great disadvantage for these subjects.

    (Original post by hellodave5)
    At masters level it shines a bit with the increased likelihood of getting published, just because more of your tutors will be pushing for that themselves (as gives uni research prestige).
    I agree with the later point about the tutors, but tutors also encourage students to publish their own articles and the final year of a science under-grad degree is spent carrying out a research project so being in an environment which is research focused will be beneficial. Therefore research is also important at under-grad level. My previous comment focused on the benefits of Russel group universities, in terms of research quality, that exceed that of non-Russel group unis, Attending Russel group, for the sciences, is advantageous when applying for masters/PHD programs that require you to put forward research proposals and you will often be asked to discuss any research you have carried out at under-grad level.

    (Original post by hellodave5)
    In terms of teaching, prestige doesn't matter at all.
    I completely agree with this which is why my previous post focused on the advantages of research at Russel groups for research-based degrees such as medicine, psychology and science subjects and not teaching aspects. Russel group unis have the best facilities for research, but that doesn't necessarily equate to better teaching.

    (Original post by hellodave5)
    In reality it is kinda contrary to what you said with those subjects. They are actually some of the most immune to variance in quality of teaching between universities.
    Actually I disagree with this point I would say the sciences are the least immune to variance in quality of teaching as new content and discoveries are constantly emerging meaning what was learnt yesterday may no longer be applicable or true tomorrow. Psychology, especially if you want to specialise in cognitive or neuroscience at under-grad level, is research intensive and having some awareness of how to conduct research is advantageous. Teaching, for science subjects, at Russel groups is slightly better because research facilities are better funded, research is internationally brilliant and you are taught by experts in their field blah blah blah.[/QUOTE]

    I feel like I've repeated the word research a lot Excuse the odd grammar errors, I am typing in pitch dark.
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    (Original post by King !)
    So many people on TSR think that if you attend a low raking uni, you are screwed which absolutely :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin:!

    An employer does not give a :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin: what university you went to! If you have the rights skills and abilities he will employ. Let me tell you a little story

    I know a guy who studied law at a university which is NOT even at the top 50s. However, he managed to grab a job at one of the best law firms in the country after his bachelor. The secret was that he could speak 3 languages fluently, he used his summer holidays to gain work experience, he was the head of a student organization, and he had good grades at uni .

    Another guy went to Cambridge and studied Law, and went on to do a Master at UCL. Two years have passed and he still has not got a job.

    So anyone who is attending a low ranking university, you have a bright future IF learn another language, gain work experience, volunteer, join student organization and just be passionate. and have a great personality, you can 100% get a job and you dont need to be an Oxbridge graduate.

    Employers dont care what uni u attended, if you contain the right skills, they will employ, and you can gain the right skills through attending any univeristy
    Too many generalisations and anecdotes in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Parasite)
    I disagree with this, research at under-graduate level is just as important. Not all science (natural and health) students want to study master/PHD programs so studying in a research led environment is helpful in providing skill sets that can improve employability. This is especially important if the person wants to go into the sciences immediately after they graduate. In medicine and psychology a like, new therapies and techniques are being developed every single day. Going to a Russel group puts you at a slight advantage. The importance of research for other subjects such as Law and English are of no relevance so attending non-Russel groups unis won't put you at a great disadvantage for these subjects.



    I agree with the later point about the tutors, but tutors also encourage students to publish their own articles and the final year of a science under-grad degree is spent carrying out a research project so being in an environment which is research focused will be beneficial. Therefore research is also important at under-grad level. My previous comment focused on the benefits of Russel group universities, in terms of research quality, that exceed that of non-Russel group unis, Attending Russel group, for the sciences, is advantageous when applying for masters/PHD programs that require you to put forward research proposals and you will often be asked to discuss any research you have carried out at under-grad level.



    I completely agree with this which is why my previous post focused on the advantages of research at Russel groups for research-based degrees such as medicine, psychology and science subjects and not teaching aspects. Russel group unis have the best facilities for research, but that doesn't necessarily equate to better teaching.



    Actually I disagree with this point I would say the sciences are the least immune to variance in quality of teaching as new content and discoveries are constantly emerging meaning what was learnt yesterday may no longer be applicable or true tomorrow. Psychology, especially if you want to specialise in cognitive or neuroscience at under-grad level, is research intensive and having some awareness of how to conduct research is advantageous. Teaching, for science subjects, at Russel groups is slightly better because research facilities are better funded, research is internationally brilliant and you are taught by experts in their field blah blah blah.
    Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

    But in honesty I would have thought the same in the past before I did my degree/MSc. For the masters my non-RG uni was fine, but I feel it may have been better to do my masters at a RG for the research component (psychology and cognitive neuroscience respectively).

    At degree level I think you are just learning the ropes, and would probably be too early entering all the extremely high level stuff of innovation at the boundaries of scientific knowledge.
    It's good to have an understanding of innovation at the undergrad level, and even masters, but you can get that from watching TED videos and reading insightful books and journal publications etc., so its not like you are shut out from research findings.

    Both RG and non RG probably offer the same or similar in getting you ready to conduct research. I know this was the case for psychology.

    I think I still stand by my point that the research innovation only really shines at masters level, simply because most people haven't developed their knowledge enough really at the undergraduate level to contribute to this, which is really only introductory (but still a hell of a lot, of course).
    In medicine this may be different, but as far as I'm aware, most medical schools offer a good research component - with all schools being part of highly esteemed research universities (thus all uni's publishing a lot of good stuff).

    At masters level you are probably knowledgeable enough to design your own studies (with the introductory research from undergrad) and at the same time have the direction from a tutor who is going for innovation, and chances may be improved if you want to push for publication.
    This is assuming most people at undergrad don't publish (not enough knowledge/or student and supervisor don't want to). As far as I'm aware, only very few do, regardless of university - though bit more so at RG uni's.

    Bare in mind that I haven't published, but know from my undergraduate psychology and masters cognitive neuroscience at a non-RG that teaching in research is sufficient and that, in my own experience, my undergraduate studies weren't effected.

    To summarise, essentially I think for most, research publication at undergrad is too precocious and so it doesn't really make any difference. I think you are ready at the masters level, when many more decide to publish, and so going to a research based (rather than 'teaching based' institution helps.

    Sorry if blabbered or recapitulated anything, still very sleepy!
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

    But in honesty I would have thought the same in the past before I did my degree/MSc. For the masters my non-RG uni was fine, but I feel it may have been better to do my masters at a RG for the research component (psychology and cognitive neuroscience respectively).

    At degree level I think you are just learning the ropes, and would probably be too early entering all the extremely high level stuff of innovation at the boundaries of scientific knowledge.
    It's good to have an understanding of innovation at the undergrad level, and even masters, but you can get that from watching TED videos and reading insightful books and journal publications etc., so its not like you are shut out from research findings.

    Both RG and non RG probably offer the same or similar in getting you ready to conduct research. I know this was the case for psychology.

    I think I still stand by my point that the research innovation only really shines at masters level, simply because most people haven't developed their knowledge enough really at the undergraduate level to contribute to this, which is really only introductory (but still a hell of a lot, of course).
    In medicine this may be different, but as far as I'm aware, most medical schools offer a good research component - with all schools being part of highly esteemed research universities (thus all uni's publishing a lot of good stuff).

    At masters level you are probably knowledgeable enough to design your own studies (with the introductory research from undergrad) and at the same time have the direction from a tutor who is going for innovation, and chances may be improved if you want to push for publication.
    This is assuming most people at undergrad don't publish (not enough knowledge/or student and supervisor don't want to). As far as I'm aware, only very few do, regardless of university - though bit more so at RG uni's.

    Bare in mind that I haven't published, but know from my undergraduate psychology and masters cognitive neuroscience at a non-RG that teaching in research is sufficient and that, in my own experience, my undergraduate studies weren't effected.

    To summarise, essentially I think for most, research publication at undergrad is too precocious and so it doesn't really make any difference. I think you are ready at the masters level, when many more decide to publish, and so going to a research based (rather than 'teaching based' institution helps.

    Sorry if blabbered or recapitulated anything, still very sleepy!
    I agree with many of the arguments you've presented! I'll have to see when I eventually commence my under-grad Psychology degree.

    On another note, where did you study at under-grad level?? I am still in the process of selecting unis so any recommendations are welcome
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    (Original post by Parasite)
    I agree with many of the arguments you've presented! I'll have to see when I eventually commence my under-grad Psychology degree.

    On another note, where did you study at under-grad level?? I am still in the process of selecting unis so any recommendations are welcome
    Personally I would apply depending on where you are happiest spending 3 years of your life, that would be by far the most important factor for me. Don't worry too much about University names, but try and get some info./feedback on specific courses if you can and the tutors.
    University I guess is also an investment, so I would balance this to some degree with the Uni's reputation (wouldn't have been a consideration for me paying lower fees, but at 9k it's importance in decision making, for me, is somewhat increased).

    Though as far as I know, the BPS psychology body and external checks does a good job of making the quality of degree classifications relatively similar. Be sure that the course is BPS accredited, or there are big problems (for I assume, the reason stated above) - though I would assume most if not all are.

    Bare in mind getting onto post grad stuff is much easier if you're already at the university with it being likely that you will develop some relationships with the people that teach on the courses (if brain related).

    I did my degree and MSc at Hallam, as I'm a Sheffielder. Unfortunately didn't get into the UoS course at the time when entering undergrad, coming from a BTEC in sports science.

    University courses seem like very expensive subscriptions or 'gym memberships'. They all do roughly the same thing, albeit with some variation (but well funded and with checks to make sure they are at least okay). You get out what you put in for the most part.

    Unfortunately I don't have an experience of other Uni's to make recommendations. But before you apply be sure to check them out and make sure you're happy with the living situation and the campus, and the people both in the area and city.

    I would still probably hold by my decision to live at home whilst doing my degree. It's already very expensive, and although it can be fun living with others, there are lots of common problems which to me, nullify it completely. Though I suppose this is dependent on luck, really.

    One of the biggest pieces of advice I could probably give though, is try and get experience throughout your degree in volunteering etc., as post degree employability is heavily reliant on it - due IMO to the jack of all trades nature of psychology.

    Let me know if I can help with anything.
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    Academic ability is not commensurate with skills sets. As most people know being able to pass exams is not a measure of intelligence.
    Being able to get a good grade from a top university requires far more than just intelligence. The level of organisation required, work ethic, consistency and the perseverance needed in order to achieve a good grade on a demanding course from a good university is usually a good indicator that one is more competent than the rest. It is only one of the several ways that companies have of comparing candidates.
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    (Original post by Incongruous)
    Being able to get a good grade from a top university requires far more than just intelligence. The level of organisation required, work ethic, consistency and the perseverance needed in order to achieve a good grade on a demanding course from a good university is usually a good indicator that one is more competent than the rest. It is only one of the several ways that companies have of comparing candidates.
    These are soft skills that the majority of uni applicants will have already demonstrated. And in particular fields, for instance law, final exams are set by respective law societies therefore I cant see why anyone could argue that a graduate of one law establishment is better than another. There must be other courses which have standardised exams?
 
 
 
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