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If the UK votes to leave the EU, should Cameron resign? Watch

  • View Poll Results: If the UK votes to leave the EU, should Cameron resign?
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    stfu
    Seems mildly inappropriate for political discussion.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    stfu
    UKIP *did* get us this referendum though. cameron got arm-twisted into it.
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    No, he doesn't have long left anyway.
    Most people, when it comes to politics don't realise that it takes years and even a couple or PM's to fix just one mistake which was made 10years or in the case of the EU 43 years (?) ago.
    It's not going to be easy and it will take time to gain back power, investments, and jobs. But no PM should resign when faced with a challenge.


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    (Original post by Joel 96)
    Seems mildly inappropriate for political discussion.
    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    UKIP *did* get us this referendum though. cameron got arm-twisted into it.
    Do either of you have a link? To the best of my knowledge it was Cameron who had proposed a referendum, which was also an agenda prior to the election and during the negotiations in Brussels
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    Do either of you have a link? To the best of my knowledge it was Cameron who had proposed a referendum, which was also an agenda prior to the election and during the negotiations in Brussels
    you want a link? are you seriously denying that the popularity of UKIP meant that david cameron's refusal to have a referendum would split the right wing vote...?
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    you want a link? are you seriously denying that the popularity of UKIP meant that david cameron's refusal to have a referendum would split the right wing vote...?
    You can't provide a link because there is no proof of what you're claiming. UKIP had no effect on Cameron calling a referendum.

    David Cameron always pushed for a referendum. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...stitution.html - This was back in 2009, and i think there was even a speech he made but im not sure about that.

    Cameron also pledged in the most recent general election that he would call a referendum: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...eferendum.html

    UKIP are irrelevant and had no bearing on Cameron's decision. If you're gonna reply and continue with your own argument, back up your claims with some links.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    You can't provide a link because there is no proof of what you're claiming. UKIP had no effect on Cameron calling a referendum.

    David Cameron always pushed for a referendum. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...stitution.html - This was back in 2009, and i think there was even a speech he made but im not sure about that.

    Cameron also pledged in the most recent general election that he would call a referendum: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...eferendum.html

    UKIP are irrelevant and had no bearing on Cameron's decision. If you're gonna reply and continue with your own argument, back up your claims with some links.




    dude. you're 15. you aren't old enough to have been around when david cameron openly rejected calls for referenda. in 2011, you were 10. I was 17. I was around and I remember it.
    in 2009, he said "the best way to ensure that (lisbon treaty) referendum is to vote conservative (in the european elections)" - that ISN'T a promise that his party were going to do anything. it was just a meaningless statement that was to boost his party's vote and therefore hopefully put pressure onto labour. but labour were obviously not going to be swayed by popular opinion, so cameron, lying about his euroscepticism, had nothing to fear.

    UKIP in 2012 were all over the news. it was *incredibly* obvious and very not coincidental that in 2013 his party pressured him at the beginning of the year to pledge for a referendum in 2017 (although now that's changed to this year because he wants to rush it through and that means having as little debate as possible, aiding his side of the argument obviously)
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    dude. you're 15. you aren't old enough to have been around when david cameron openly rejected calls for referenda. in 2011, you were 10. I was 17. I was around and I remember it.
    in 2009, he said "the best way to ensure that (lisbon treaty) referendum is to vote conservative (in the european elections)" - that ISN'T a promise that his party were going to do anything. it was just a meaningless statement that was to boost his party's vote and therefore hopefully put pressure onto labour. but labour were obviously not going to be swayed by popular opinion, so cameron, lying about his euroscepticism, had nothing to fear.

    UKIP in 2012 were all over the news. it was *incredibly* obvious and very not coincidental that in 2013 his party pressured him at the beginning of the year to pledge for a referendum in 2017 (although now that's changed to this year because he wants to rush it through and that means having as little debate as possible, aiding his side of the argument obviously)
    I question the validity of this statement. Sure politicians may lie to get support but it's clear the referendum was part of his agenda since 2009: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ2n7oMcSi0

    I can see why you would think that but:

    The support UKIP got indicated to the conservatives that the public wanted to leave the EU, unlike Cameron who appears to be part of the 'in' campaign. UKIP themselves didn't have much power or influence but the media and the clear support for UKIPs policy of 'taking control of our borders' and 'leaving the EU'. I think it's this support that UKIP got from the people that led to Cameron further pushing for a referendum that ultimately led to his re election. UKIP themselves aren't involved in getting a referendum.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I think even a lot of the left accept that the country could do far worse.
    Definitely - I'm left wing so I'm certainly not a fan of Cameron (far from it), but as a Conservative PM he isn't that bad. I disagree with the welfare cuts, for example, but he's still a reasonable politician and I'm concerned about him stepping down, as his successor would probably be much worse (and labour don't seem in a state to win in the next GE).
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    I question the validity of this statement. Sure politicians may lie to get support but it's clear the referendum was part of his agenda since 2009: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ2n7oMcSi0
    dude, I literally just addressed that video. he states "the best way to *get* that referendum is to vote conservative" (at 1:04), and I told you that, didn't I? he doesn't say "I promise that the conservative party will give you a referendum if you vote for us", he says "the best way to get that referendum" as if to say to vote labour to a lesser extent will possibly make them promise one, but they promised a referendum on the EU constitution for 2005 and then went back on that promise because that treaty which was called the EU constitution got a name change (the lisbon treaty) so they claimed that this made the situation different. but it didn't. many european countries got referenda. we didn't. so labour are liars so cameron fed off from that fact as well as being a liar himself. also, by the time cameron was promising "a referendum" vis-a-vis the lisbon treaty, it had already been ratified. that means that you can't just reverse it as one nation when it took all EU countries to "consent" to it. and lastly, why are you not thinking, based on the video that I provided you, that david cameron, if he was referring to an in-out referendum (which he wasn't), wasn't simply lying (based on what he then goes on to say in my videos)?


    I can see why you would think that but: he support UKIP got indicated to the conservatives that the public wanted to leave the EU, unlike Cameron who appears to be part of the 'in' campaign. UKIP themselves didn't have much power or influence but the media and the clear support for UKIPs policy of 'taking control of our borders' and 'leaving the EU'. I think it's this support that UKIP got from the people that led to Cameron further pushing for a referendum that ultimately led to his re election. UKIP themselves aren't involved in getting a referendum.
    UKIP had huge influence. they spread awareness of the conservative injustice of not giving the public a referendum regarding all the bad aspects of the EU. and if you're really claiming that the public are the ones who caused the referendum, then that shallow and superficial reasoning would basically suggest that politicians since democracy began have been responsible for NOTHING...but also, politicians aren't simply agents of the public - they inform the public (via spreading awareness in the media, like farage has done) and hence shape public opinion itself. UKIP weren't always popular, were they? they only got popular because their message got through eventually. if UKIP were mere public agents of euroscepticism, then they'd have been huge even in 1993, which they weren't.
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    dude, I literally just addressed that video. he states "the best way to *get* that referendum is to vote conservative" (at 1:04), and I told you that, didn't I? he doesn't say "I promise that the conservative party will give you a referendum if you vote for us", he says "the best way to get that referendum" as if to say to vote labour to a lesser extent will possibly make them promise one, but they promised a referendum on the EU constitution for 2005 and then went back on that promise because that treaty which was called the EU constitution got a name change (the lisbon treaty) so they claimed that this made the situation different. but it didn't. many european countries got referenda. we didn't. so labour are liars so cameron fed off from that fact as well as being a liar himself. also, by the time cameron was promising "a referendum" vis-a-vis the lisbon treaty, it had already been ratified. that means that you can't just reverse it as one nation when it took all EU countries to "consent" to it. and lastly, why are you not thinking, based on the video that I provided you, that david cameron, if he was referring to an in-out referendum (which he wasn't), wasn't simply lying (based on what he then goes on to say in my videos)?




    UKIP had huge influence. they spread awareness of the conservative injustice of not giving the public a referendum regarding all the bad aspects of the EU. and if you're really claiming that the public are the ones who caused the referendum, then that shallow and superficial reasoning would basically suggest that politicians since democracy began have been responsible for NOTHING...but also, politicians aren't simply agents of the public - they inform the public (via spreading awareness in the media, like farage has done) and hence shape public opinion itself. UKIP weren't always popular, were they? they only got popular because their message got through eventually. if UKIP were mere public agents of euroscepticism, then they'd have been huge even in 1993, which they weren't.
    1) Yes, I know you addressed it. Point is that the statement may not be valid because he did push for such a referendum, even if it was for votes. Sure he may not have been keen on it but him, alongside much of the Conservative party.

    2) Farage was an excellent campaigner and raised awareness of that, Im not going to take anything away from them for doing that. They were simply a spark to the fuel, there was already tensions building up with many people wanting to leave EU for control of borders and sovereignty.The coalition government had weakened the Conservatives to a certain extent. UKIP support had built up because people agreed with them and their right wing ideas and was the 2nd or 3rd most voted party last election. Conservatives won because they continued to push for a referendum and said that they 'wanted the people to vote'. UKIP on the other hand firmly decided that they wanted to leave and never really campaigned for a referendum of any sort. They also put a bad light on Conservatives for not holding a referendum, and the public questioned them too. Everything you say about UKIP is ultimately irrelevant since Cameron did and always vowed for a referendum and it was inevitably going to happen anyway.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    1) Yes, I know you addressed it. Point is that the statement may not be valid because he did push for such a referendum, even if it was for votes. Sure he may not have been keen on it but him, alongside much of the Conservative party.
    so you're saying he quite clearly lied and immediately proved it upon coming to power...that's not exactly in his favour then. he was "pushing for a referendum", was he? again, he wasn't promising that his party would do anything, so he misled millions of people...

    2) Farage was an excellent campaigner and raised awareness of that, Im not going to take anything away from them for doing that. They were simply a spark to the fuel, there was already tensions building up with many people wanting to leave EU for control of borders and sovereignty.The coalition government had weakened the Conservatives to a certain extent. UKIP support had built up because people agreed with them and their right wing ideas and was the 2nd or 3rd most voted party last election. Conservatives won because they continued to push for a referendum and said that they 'wanted the people to vote'. UKIP on the other hand firmly decided that they wanted to leave and never really campaigned for a referendum of any sort. They also put a bad light on Conservatives for not holding a referendum, and the public questioned them too. Everything you say about UKIP is ultimately irrelevant since Cameron did and always vowed for a referendum and it was inevitably going to happen anyway.
    and like I told you, after you said "stfu", cameron was arm-twisted into giving a referendum after the UKIP "spark". and, again, no, david cameron *never* promised a referendum on the EU. he implied, and even I don't even think it was really an implication, a referendum on the lisbon treaty in your video, but that's an impossible promise seeing as by then the lisbon treaty was already in place...
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    No because I am absolutely terrified that if Cameron resigns than either Boris Johnson or George Osbourne will take over (God help us).
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    (Original post by AlmightyJesus)
    so you're saying he quite clearly lied and immediately proved it upon coming to power...that's not exactly in his favour then. he was "pushing for a referendum", was he? again, he wasn't promising that his party would do anything, so he misled millions of people...



    and like I told you, after you said "stfu", cameron was arm-twisted into giving a referendum after the UKIP "spark". and, again, no, david cameron *never* promised a referendum on the EU. he implied, and even I don't even think it was really an implication, a referendum on the lisbon treaty in your video, but that's an impossible promise seeing as by then the lisbon treaty was already in place...
    1) I never said he lied. I'm saying that he did push for such a referendum. I'll refer you to an article I linked earlier. You're the one saying that he was lying for votes, which is unsupported since he did do a lot of negotiations to do with sovereignty.

    2) As already said, Cameron holding a referendum was part of his election campaign and it really was inevitable that it would happen. The UKIP spark just indicated to Cameron that he needed to hold it now since so many people weren't keen on staying in the EU. It would be ridiculous for you to suggest that on both occasions, Cameron called for referendums twice just for votes. He would have definitely had to go through with it.
 
 
 
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