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What 'red tape' are Brexiters referring to? Watch

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    My dad lives in the EU and has a car that is newer than 2008. He is on holiday at the moment but I will be sure to check whether it has a switch for the headlights before I vote whether to leave or not.

    This is a very important issue and I will not stand for it if headlights really do come on automatically when the engine turns on. What's next? A beeping sound that comes on if you don't wear a seatbelt? 1984 is around the corner folks and the regressive left has walked us right into it.
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    In the past I've always had a moped or a motorbike and the headlights came on automatically on all of them. My life isn't any worse because of it.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Surely if you wanted to trade with say china you might have to do some forms in chinese?
    The point is that the EU is a huge obstacle to small businesses, making them fill out masses of paperwork instead of getting on trading (probably why the EU is the only declining market and the rest of the world is growing). Did you know the EU doesn't let us have a seat on the WTO and instead negotiates for 28 states interest? If we left, we can take back that seat and make our own trade deals. Look at
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-tra...7655R920110706

    and also
    www.leave.eu

    (Original post by Davij038)

    Such as? Boris Johnson recently got torn to shreds for making up cases of this.
    like https://jonworth.eu/what-precisely-i...jcb-speaks-of/

    (Original post by Davij038)
    Evidence it can be done any quicker with a comparable economic entity with 28 member states
    You think using big words will win the debate? Come on, look at what's happening now and over the last 40 years. EU takes ages to do ANYTHING.

    (Original post by Davij038)
    .Rubbish and non sequitur as usual. Most small businesses support staying IN last time i checked.
    It all depends what facts you decide to believe. Personally I think Britain should have the right to fish in British waters, not the rest of Europe; and let our farmers make decisions themselves. And if you reflect about it for just a moment, you will see how we are no longer a nation: we can make less than half our laws and have to let in millions of European migrants; instead of doing the right thing and taking real refugees and skilled workers who will benefit Britain.

    So, if you want to see real change and a brighter future, vote Leave. Corbyn supports it.
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    (Original post by james813)
    The point is that the EU is a huge obstacle to small businesses, making them fill out masses of paperwork instead of getting on trading (probably why the EU is the only declining market and the rest of the world is growing). Did you know the EU doesn't let us have a seat on the WTO and instead negotiates for 28 states interest? If we left, we can take back that seat and make our own trade deals. Look at
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-tra...7655R920110706

    and also
    www.leave.eu
    .
    They'd have to fill out THE EXACT SAME PAPERWORK IF WE LEFT. Just like they have to fill out paperwork relevant to any market they want to trade in. The difference is that the EU produces a single market with the same regulations, rather than 27 different markets each with their own regulations.

    If we left the EU, British companies would need to meet the exact same regulations if they wanted to trade in the EU. We'd just get no say in the development of those regulations.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    They'd have to fill out THE EXACT SAME PAPERWORK IF WE LEFT. Just like they have to fill out paperwork relevant to any market they want to trade in. The difference is that the EU produces a single market with the same regulations, rather than 27 different markets each with their own regulations.

    If we left the EU, British companies would need to meet the exact same regulations if they wanted to trade in the EU. We'd just get no say in the development of those regulations.
    We ALREADY have a tiny proportion of MEPs and the unelected burecrats decide everything. So why not leave and trade with the rest of the world, where it's impossible with the EU. I know I probably won't convince you; but hopefully others reading this will look more into the facts.
    And I haven't even mentioned the £20bn a year to the EU (oops, again!)
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    (Original post by james813)
    We ALREADY have a tiny proportion of MEPs and the unelected burecrats decide everything. So why not leave and trade with the rest of the world, where it's impossible with the EU. I know I probably won't convince you; but hopefully others reading this will look more into the facts.
    And I haven't even mentioned the £20bn a year to the EU (oops, again!)
    Facts such as the EU being by far our biggest export market?
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Facts such as the EU being by far our biggest export market?
    Yes because, like I said, they won't let us make trade deals with the rest of the world.

    We have a huge export deficit from the EU, that sounds like a strange way to do business
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    (Original post by james813)
    Yes because, like I said, they won't let us make trade deals with the rest of the world.

    We have a huge export deficit from the EU, that sounds like a strange way to do business
    You don't seem to understand that other EU countries also don't get to make trade deals with the rest of the world. They have an incentive to trade with us instead. This benefits us hugely. This is how the EU works.
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    I notice Davij didn't reply to the rest of my answer. If you seriously think it's a good idea to have a closed EU market, shut off from the rest of the world then I respect your opinion but couldn't disagree more.
    Btw, would you support nationalisation of our steel plants? If so, it's disallowed under EU law
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    Clinical trials directive - forced through by big pharmas which means doctors cant administer life saving vaccinations without complying with EU drug law - which effectively requires them to buy branded drugs
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    Anyway fella's, I'm going now but am sure we can continue this lively discussion tomorrow. Private message me if you want to discuss properly by phone.
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    (Original post by james813)
    The point is that the EU is a huge obstacle to small businesses, making them fill out masses of paperwork instead of getting on trading (probably why the EU is the only declining market and the rest of the world is growing).

    Did you know the EU doesn't let us have a seat on the WTO and instead negotiates for 28 states interest? If we left, we can take back that seat and make our own trade deals. Look at
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-tra...7655R920110706

    and also
    www.leave.eu



    like https://jonworth.eu/what-precisely-i...jcb-speaks-of/



    You think using big words will win the debate? Come on, look at what's happening now and over the last 40 years. EU takes ages to do ANYTHING.



    It all depends what facts you decide to believe. Personally I think Britain should have the right to fish in British waters, not the rest of Europe; and let our farmers make decisions themselves. And if you reflect about it for just a moment, you will see how we are no longer a nation: we can make less than half our laws and have to let in millions of European migrants; instead of doing the right thing and taking real refugees and skilled workers who will benefit Britain.

    So, if you want to see real change and a brighter future, vote Leave. Corbyn supports it.
    That Jon worth article supports staying in, you might want to read your links first.

    Now let's address your points in order.

    Outside the EU we would be certainly be more competitive. And by that we'd have far less workers rights, environmental safeguards, H&S (making sure people don't put **** in out food etc). The vote leave people are all crazed libertarians that want to abolish the NHS and make Britain a smaller crapper USA. They're just sensible enough to not mention that.

    Yes I know about the EU seat. It's a good thing and means we can compete with China on a level playing field- common sense really.

    The fish point is hilarious- fish don't recognise borders and will swim wherever- and will often migrate to different areas.

    Just out of interest what EU laws have personally effected you?

    EU migrants are net contributers. We could take on those extra people if we wanted to. Besides, vote leave have said we'll keep those already here. So what's the point?
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    (Original post by james813)
    I notice Davij didn't reply to the rest of my answer. If you seriously think it's a good idea to have a closed EU market, shut off from the rest of the world then I respect your opinion but couldn't disagree more.
    Btw, would you support nationalisation of our steel plants? If so, it's disallowed under EU law
    I have now and no it doesn't, try again!

    http://www.anothereurope.org/eu-law-...teel-industry/
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    (Original post by james813)
    Yes because, like I said, they won't let us make trade deals with the rest of the world.

    We have a huge export deficit from the EU, that sounds like a strange way to do business
    Unfortunately for you, this is not true. Remember Osborne a few months ago in China, signing trade deals?
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Unfortunately for you, this is not true. Remember Osborne a few months ago in China, signing trade deals?
    Look up the figures for imports from EU and exports there, and you wil see it is true
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I have now and no it doesn't, try again!

    http://www.anothereurope.org/eu-law-...teel-industry/
    The EU prevents nationalisation of industry (surely that's for individual countries to decide!) but you are right there were some exceptions. But that article is entirely untrue, with no facts, written by the establishment on a pro-eu website
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    (Original post by Davij038;63991389
    )

    That Jon worth article supports staying in, you might want to read your links first.
    You asked for an example of red tape, JCB said we need serious reform or to leave. But yes, it had a pro-eu spin on a pro-eu website

    [QUOTE=Davij038;63991389
    Now let's address your points in order.


    Outside the EU we would be certainly be more competitive. And by that we'd have far less workers rights, environmental safeguards, H&S (making sure people don't put **** in out food etc). The vote leave people are all crazed libertarians that want to abolish the NHS and make Britain a smaller crapper USA. They're just sensible enough to not mention that. [/QUOTE]

    Let's have a serious conversation, please. But I agree worker's rights could be affected if we leave the EU. However, that's why democracy exists, so we can vote in politicians to do what they need to.

    (Original post by Davij038)
    Yes I know about the EU seat. It's a good thing and means we can compete with China on a level playing field- common sense really.
    The EU takes forever to do anything, Iceland are able to sign a free-trade deal with China, we are 100 times bigger and can do it ourselves, not as part of an eu superstate.

    (Original post by Davij038)
    The fish point is hilarious- fish don't recognise borders and will swim wherever- and will often migrate to different areas.
    Guessing that's a joke? We have to let other countries fish in our waters, and comply with EU RED TAPE.

    (Original post by Davij038)
    Just out of interest what EU laws have personally effected you?
    Giving £20bn a year to them; being priced out of jobs due to immigration, not being able to control 60% of our laws
    (Original post by Davij038)
    EU migrants are net contributers. We could take on those extra people if we wanted to. Besides, vote leave have said we'll keep those already here. So what's the point?
    To stop more and more workers flooding the job market and public services. If you just look at taxes vs. benefits you are right, but that's a tiny part of the issue
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Leave voters are constantly telling us how small British businesses are being destroyed by EU red tape, but I've never actually seen a single example of this red tape.

    As an aspiring small business owner myself, the only red tape I've had to deal with was put in place by our own government.
    For a start even if a company doesn't trade with someone in the eu it must abide by all eu rules.

    That's red tape


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    Solvency II in the insurance industry would be an excellent example. Handled utterly incompetently by the eurocrats, it's ended up costing the industry billions to implement.

    The common agricultural or fisheries policies are hardly known for their efficiency.

    Regulation of necessarily boring as hell, so by and large it's hard to put up examples of any big issues. It's more like death by a thousand pinpricks. The EU is possibly the world's most bureaucratic regime which produces a great weight every year of petty regulations which, in isolation, are trivial, but which together add up to a great burden..
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    (Original post by james813)
    Look up the figures for imports from EU and exports there, and you wil see it is true
    That's comparing apples to oranges and doesn't refute my point whatsoever.
 
 
 
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