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    (Original post by Josb)
    Degree =/= intelligence
    maybe in your case with a history degree
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    People who complain about there being too many people with a degree are those who fear the smart plebs are going to take their jobs in the future
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    (Original post by Keyhofi)
    Everyone has a degree and everyone has a Master's. That is why I'm doing a doctorate - so I can stand out. No one copy me please.
    is it true that to do a doctorate, you have to write a book in that subject?
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    People who complain about there being too many people with a degree are those who fear the smart plebs are going to take their jobs in the future
    Quite the opposite actually, I worry for those people who study a degree on a whim because they feel like it's the right thing to do and they've been pressured to do it by their school and society, only to find themselves in a completely irrelevant or otherwise accessible (via apprenticeship, intern, trainee, college etc) job and realising that they've wasted their time and money.

    Also, for what it's worth, I don't go to university, in fact I studied Law for a year and dropped out


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    (Original post by Stk1010)
    Degrees used to be for the rich and well-educated class of society. Anybody who had a degree was highly sought after. If you had a degree you were pretty much set for life. Fast forward to the present and degrees are dished out to pretty much anyone and everyone.
    The majority of my year at school went on to university and I think this is the case for most schools nowadays.
    There's pretty much a course for anything you can think of and entry requirements are much lower than they used to be, not to mention student finance and government grants; universities are pretty much open to anyone. Don't get me wrong, I believe that everyone has the right to be educated to whatever level they desire. However, I've noticed that degrees just don't offer the security that they used to anymore because they've become so common, meaning it's difficult to stand out. I know from my own experience and from my friends that employers don't just want someone with a degree nowadays, they want someone with real work experience and because graduate jobs are so competitive now most graduates end up in entry level roles with no relevance to their degree anyway, which they could've got without a degree.

    It seems to me like the whole system has become a bit of a shambles. I'm interested to see what other people think about this and whether anyone agrees.


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    There's no evidence of an over-supply of graduates or that current growth in university places is unsustainable.
    http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/high...x#.Vw4czPkrLs0

    (Original post by Josb)
    When graduates can't find jobs with their degrees.
    Which graduates are these?

    The employment data shows there's still a major boost to employability for graduates: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...March_2015.pdf
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    (Original post by Stk1010)
    Quite the opposite actually, I worry for those people who study a degree on a whim because they feel like it's the right thing to do and they've been pressured to do it by their school and society, only to find themselves in a completely irrelevant or otherwise accessible (via apprenticeship, intern, trainee, college etc) job and realising that they've wasted their time and money.

    Also, for what it's worth, I don't go to university, in fact I studied Law for a year and dropped out


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    Yeah i see the logic, although i can only imagine that those from a wealthy upbringing (i.e. Private schools etc) would want to go uni. There doesnt seem to be many high paying jobs where a degree isnt needed. Take the fact that many managerial roles in somewhere like a leisure centre, a degree isnt required but it is quite niche to do so.

    Jobs like accountancy etc dont need a degree, but those who do do a job that doesnt require their degree are considered underemployed. On the contrary, a degree's usefulness is limited to what it actually is. People doing an english or media degree often end up unemployed.
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    (Original post by Stk1010)
    Damn, perhaps you need to go to university to learn to read and not sensationalise. If you had read my post in full, which evidently you did not, you know exactly where I stand in terms of educational equality, I quote, 'Don't get me wrong, I believe that everybody has the right to be educated to whatever level they desire'. I never suggested that only the rich, upper class members of society should be able to attend university. I was merely stating a historical truth. Nonetheless, it is a concern when people are spending ridiculous amounts of money on three/four year degrees only to finish university and land themselves an entry level job which they could have otherwise got without going to university or they land themselves a job completely irrelevant to their degree in which case what was the point?;
    I went to university and I read your post in full. You did not simply state that only the rich went to university as a random "historical fact" - you used it as comparison to imply the situation was before better than it is now. Why else would you say it before attacking the fact that many more people go to university presently?

    The solution to having over-educated and over-intelligent people in entry level and irrelevant jobs is not to reduce intelligence and education - that is backwards and illogical and unproductive. The solution is finding new ways to harness and make use of this increased average intelligence and competence of human beings. This takes time and for a little while there will be a surplus of intelligence as the economy adjusts to accommodate for it.

    You need to open your eyes to the bigger picture
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    Jobs like accountancy etc dont need a degree, but those who do do a job that doesnt require their degree are considered underemployed. On the contrary, a degree's usefulness is limited to what it actually is. People doing an english or media degree often end up unemployed.
    English graduates have lower levels of unemployment than Physics, Chemistry and Biology grads. Media grads have lower levels than computer science: http://www.hecsu.ac.uk/assets/assets.../wdgd_2015.pdf
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    Yeah i see the logic, although i can only imagine that those from a wealthy upbringing (i.e. Private schools etc) would want to go uni. There doesnt seem to be many high paying jobs where a degree isnt needed. Take the fact that many managerial roles in somewhere like a leisure centre, a degree isnt required but it is quite niche to do so.

    Jobs like accountancy etc dont need a degree, but those who do do a job that doesnt require their degree are considered underemployed. On the contrary, a degree's usefulness is limited to what it actually is. People doing an english or media degree often end up unemployed.
    As for under-employment see https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...v4_for_web.pdf page 81 - it isn't oversupply of graduates leading to under-utilisation of skills
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    (Original post by PQ)
    As for under-employment see https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...v4_for_web.pdf page 81 - it isn't oversupply of graduates leading to under-utilisation of skills
    That isnt particularly accurate. Its from the perspective of the employer. An employee could say otherwise.

    And i only said that those who do a job that doesnt require a degree are underemployed, presuming that there are better jobs that they can do (which is often the case)
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    I went to university and I read your post in full. You did not simply state that only the rich went to university as a random "historical fact" - you used it as comparison to imply the situation was before better than it is now. Why else would you say it before attacking the fact that many more people go to university presently?

    The solution to having over-educated and over-intelligent people in entry level and irrelevant jobs is not to reduce intelligence and education - that is backwards and illogical and unproductive. The solution is finding new ways to harness and make use of this increased average intelligence and competence of human beings. This takes time and for a little while there will be a surplus of intelligence as the economy adjusts to accommodate for it.

    You need to open your eyes to the bigger picture. As humanity progresses, less complex jobs are passed over to technology and humans increasingly work more complex jobs for society, thus maximising the use of brain power. We once used to farm land completely manually, now modern farms farm themselves. It used to be rare to become a scientist or a philosopher, now it is a viable career for everyone with the right mindset. In a 1000 years do you think minimium wage jobs will be the same as they are today when you consider the rate of technological advance? Eventually we will have to become a multi-planetary species - do you think limiting education is a good or a bad way to achieve this task - a task that requires enormous intellectual and technological input? Human brains on average must keep advancing with technology and that means more education and more opportunity.
    I think you're missing my point entirely, I am not arguing that less people should go to university, and I'm certainly not arguing that only a certain type of person should go to university. I made that comparison because it is an undeniable historical fact, and my point in making it was to emphasise that there are more graduates nowadays than there were in the past.

    I'm open to the idea that more degrees could actually be beneficial to society as a whole and you do make a valid point, but that's no help for new graduates at present who as I've said, find themselves struggling for work or in work that is completely irrelevant to their degree or in entry level jobs. Your theory doesn't come into place for another decade at least (most likely more), so what are people supposed to do until then?

    It's also worth addressing the quality of degrees that are available. I think the term being thrown around is 'Micky Mouse' degrees. For instance, Staffordshire University allows students to study the life of David Beckham and I remember hearing of a university in America allowing students to study Harry Potter!? Obviously these are at the extreme end of the scale. But my question to you is are these kind of 'irrelevant' and 'worthless' degrees really going to benefit society in the long run?

    Not to mention the value for money! I'd bet my life that if you asked every single student in the UK whether their course was good value for money they'd say absolutely not. Universities frankly don't seem to care about their students, it's just one big money making machine.




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    (Original post by Stk1010)
    It's also worth addressing the quality of degrees that are available. I think the term being thrown around is 'Micky Mouse' degrees. For instance, Staffordshire University allows students to study the life of David Beckham and I remember hearing of a university in America allowing students to study Harry Potter!? Obviously these are at the extreme end of the scale. But my question to you is are these kind of 'irrelevant' and 'worthless' degrees really going to benefit society in the long run?
    Have you done any research into these examples?

    Universities offer modules in all sorts of topics - that isn't the same as a dedicated degree.

    Even just a quick look at wikipedia would help you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse_degrees
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Have you done any research into these examples?

    Universities offer modules in all sorts of topics - that isn't the same as a dedicated degree.

    Even just a quick look at wikipedia would help you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse_degrees
    Whether it's a dedicated degree or just a module it still begs the question whether the quality of these degrees are really up to scratch? I mean really... you're at a job interview and your potential employer asks you what modules you studied in your degree. "Well, I spent a whole term studying the life of David Beckham". Lol, jog on! I'd be humiliated to admit that I'm in £50k+ debt because I wanted to learn about David Beckham. Nonetheless, like I said they are extreme examples, but there are plenty of courses available that are frankly pointless and worthless in the grand scheme of things.
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    (Original post by Stk1010)
    Nonetheless, like I said they are extreme examples, but there are plenty of courses available that are frankly pointless and worthless in the grand scheme of things.
    like......?......
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    (Original post by PQ)
    like......?......
    I haven't got all day, but there was a previous thread made on this forum dedicated to pointless degrees, you can check it out here: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3298293

    Edit: It's worth noting that I don't nessicerialy agree with all of them.
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    (Original post by Stk1010)
    Degrees used to be for the rich and well-educated class of society. Anybody who had a degree was highly sought after. If you had a degree you were pretty much set for life. Fast forward to the present and degrees are dished out to pretty much anyone and everyone.
    The majority of my year at school went on to university and I think this is the case for most schools nowadays.
    There's pretty much a course for anything you can think of and entry requirements are much lower than they used to be, not to mention student finance and government grants; universities are pretty much open to anyone. Don't get me wrong, I believe that everyone has the right to be educated to whatever level they desire. However, I've noticed that degrees just don't offer the security that they used to anymore because they've become so common, meaning it's difficult to stand out. I know from my own experience and from my friends that employers don't just want someone with a degree nowadays, they want someone with real work experience and because graduate jobs are so competitive now most graduates end up in entry level roles with no relevance to their degree anyway, which they could've got without a degree.

    It seems to me like the whole system has become a bit of a shambles. I'm interested to see what other people think about this and whether anyone agrees.


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    I agree, University has become TOO open.

    Some people going to university frankly should not be going. What a waste of government money.
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    (Original post by Stk1010)
    I haven't got all day, but there was a previous thread made on this forum dedicated to pointless degrees, you can check it out here: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3298293

    Edit: It's worth noting that I don't nessicerialy agree with all of them.
    I thought you said there were "plenty" - doesn't take all day to give an example with some evidence that the degree in question is both pointless and worthless.

    That thread is as full of un-evidenced statements as your posts so far in this thread. Most people posting on those threads seem to think that belittling other subjects will somehow increase their own self-worth :nope:
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    (Original post by PQ)
    I thought you said there were "plenty" - doesn't take all day to give an example with some evidence that the degree in question is both pointless and worthless.

    That thread is as full of un-evidenced statements as your posts so far in this thread. Most people posting on those threads seem to think that belittling other subjects will somehow increase their own self-worth :nope:
    On the contrary, I've already given you two examples which you slyly ignored. Whether they're modules or degrees, they still prove (in my opinion) that some degrees lack quality. I then give you a link to a list created by student forum users which you dispose of suggesting that people are belittling other subjects to increase their own self worth, sorry, was that an opinion of yours or do you have evidence to prove it? Exactly.

    Everything I've said is of course my own opinion, I don't need evidence to back it up. I've simply opened a discussion. But unfortunately you're too stubborn to step down despite being presented with unarguable truths.
    I'm very open minded on this matter, but you've offered nothing to sway my opinion.
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    Yes. Supply and demand economics dictates that because the supply of graduates has become so large, the demand for them has long since dropped off. It's sad to say but a lot of those graduates are the systems "excess", people that the economy will never be able to provide what they wish in life. It's sad but that's economics. It really does make university more of a lottery than a means of climbing the ladder to the middle/upper class. I encourage people to look at alternatives before they think about university. You can go to university whenever you want. My advice is to take a few years working and training in some other program(such as an apprenticeship that is skills based) and then, if you feel it will help you, go to university. Going to university to study film and expecting to be the next JJ Abrams is just not realistic and I don't think that parents, the schools and universities are being that honest to young people. They tell them its university or poverty when more often than not, its university and a temporary delay in poverty with a sack full of government debt glued to you for the rest of your life siphoning off income.
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    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    I agree, University has become TOO open.

    Some people going to university frankly should not be going. What a waste of government money.
    The libs will be here any second............HIDE!!!
 
 
 
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