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    (Original post by Greenlaner)
    What is the general consensus (if any) amongst Irish republicans on the European Union and the upcoming British referendum? Will republicans in Ulster participate in the election?
    Republicans are quite divided over this at the moment.

    I, like many, want to leave for several reasons, for example:

    - The long-established Anglo-Irish Common Travel Area, which goes back to 1923, is a matter exclusively for the British and Irish Governments and is not an EU matter. British and Irish people will continue to move freely between the two islands and across the North-South border inside Ireland as they have always done.

    - Free trade does not require the supremacy of EU law. Free trade will continue between Ireland and the UK under all realistic “Leave” scenarios, so there will be no customs posts on the North-South border within Ireland, no passport controls or anything like that. Such claims are simply scaremongering.

    However, Sinn Féin has decided to campaign for the United Kingdom to remain a member of the European Union because it fears a British exit could further divide Ireland.

    The problem is these worries are all part of “Project Fear”. Remember 1999 and the threats of job losses and economic ruin if Britain did not abolish the pound sterling and adopt the euro? Or 2011 when Germany’s Chancellor Merkel claimed that peace in Europe was under threat if the Banks were not bailed out to protect the euro-currency?
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    "No thanks a chara I'm on hunger strike until Mrs Thatcher decides to reverse her decision and restore our rights per political status. This is only happening because she wants to deny what is really going on in her 'country': a war."Really? Of all people adam... tut tut tut. That's the equivalent of that song "Would you like a cheeseburger Bobby Sands". You don't see us doing that about the loyalists. Nor do we have an equivalent of "The Famine Song".Did they have any hunger strikers?
    Jamie Bryson
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Question me and possibly nationalists e.g. That Bearded Man Airmed
    on Sinn Féin, IRSP, Irish republicanism, Irish nationalism and methods, e.g. abstentionism.
    Is the term of the IRA overused and too broadly used (in context). What i mean is do you think Irish will always be judged unfavorably
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    Jamie Bryson
    Good god he's a walking advertisement for contraception
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    (Original post by ChildOfTony)
    Is the term of the IRA overused and too broadly used (in context). What i mean is do you think Irish will always be judged unfavorably
    It's annoying that the IRA is now only recognised for the Provisionals' campaign and not the original IRA, and that they were all murderers. Some of the things the Provisionals did were wrong, but they've been portrayed as sectarian terrorists, when the sectarian murders were almost completely one-sided from the loyalist terror groups.
    When you say the UDA or UVF, nobody's heard of them. If you say IRA, people immediately think terrorist.

    I don't think Irish people are judged on the Ra anymore. We're not associated with Gerry Adams either. We're more likely to be associated with...Louis Walsh. Or Graham Norton.
    God.
    Better finish my drink and go blow summat up!
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Note that I never said I supported it, I meant that it was 'decent legislation' in that Stormont can actually get some significant legislation through without descending into "five year olds fighting in a sandpit".
    Ha, fair enough. It's one of the things that you forget about NI politics that sometimes the apparently straightforward bits (government formation, passing legislation, keeping the whole thing going) are often the most difficult. I immediately jumped to the conclusion that you were making a judgement on its content rather than the actual legislating bit.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    "No thanks a chara I'm on hunger strike until Mrs Thatcher decides to reverse her decision and restore our rights per political status. This is only happening because she wants to deny what is really going on in her 'country': a war."Really? Of all people adam... tut tut tut. That's the equivalent of that song "Would you like a cheeseburger Bobby Sands". You don't see us doing that about the loyalists. Nor do we have an equivalent of "The Famine Song".Did they have any hunger strikers?
    A significant point that, presumably, those imprisoned on the Loyalist side also lost their favourable status...

    I was of the view that people detained by Diplock courts and so on should be treated, much like prisoners on remand who have not been convicted of a crime, in a favourable way. As you can imagine though, I'm not a big fan of special status for duly convicted criminals, regardless of their motivations.
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    What do you think about the names of forces of the Crown and others who died during the Easter Rising being included and commemorated on official memorials etc in Ireland?
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Ha, fair enough. It's one of the things that you forget about NI politics that sometimes the apparently straightforward bits (government formation, passing legislation, keeping the whole thing going) are often the most difficult. I immediately jumped to the conclusion that you were making a judgement on its content rather than the actual legislating bit.
    Yep, trust me almost every year the DUP will throw a fit and leave the Assembly for a few weeks, people will get worried about the 'peace process' and then they'll come back like angry teenagers
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    A significant point that, presumably, those imprisoned on the Loyalist side also lost their favourable status...
    The thing is there is that loyalists were known to be notoriously stupid and uneducated. There were secret tapes released a decade or so ago showing classes in the loyalist camp where several of them didn't know what they had done beyond "I killed a man". Not all unionists are stupid, but a lot of loyalists are.

    It's not hard to understand why - the majority of republicans were taught either growing up or by other republicans about their history, e.g. through Na Fianna Eireann, and have a whole Irish culture, language and romanticism that was suppressed and over 800 years of republicanism, and it was more about love for those things, while loyalists really didn't have much to compare.

    (Original post by L i b)
    I was of the view that people detained by Diplock courts and so on should be treated, much like prisoners on remand who have not been convicted of a crime, in a favourable way. As you can imagine though, I'm not a big fan of special status for duly convicted criminals, regardless of their motivations.
    The problem was that the political status/special category was already there, but Thatcher got rid of it in an attempt to criminalise the war.

    (Original post by L i b)
    What do you think about the names of forces of the Crown and others who died during the Easter Rising being included and commemorated on official memorials etc in Ireland?
    I and the vast majority of people think it's disgraceful. Relatives of those who fought and died in the Easter Rising will not rule out taking legal action to take it down at Glasnevin cemetery because it commemorates the British army dead alongside their relatives.
    Some have called on it to be "Nelson's Pillar'ed", when the IRA blew up Dublin's Nelson's Pillar in 1966.

    We are all opposed in principle to any proposal to locate a wall, plaque or register in Glasnevin Cemetery or elsewhere upon which names of British Army personnel will be inscribed alongside 1916 volunteers who were killed in action or executed by Crown forces. It is, in our view, a deeply insulting and bizarre proposal.

    If they want a commemoration to the Crown Forces, do it in Britain, to be blunt.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Yep, trust me almost every year the DUP will throw a fit and leave the Assembly for a few weeks, people will get worried about the 'peace process' and then they'll come back like angry teenagers
    Yeah. It's annoying that's there's nothing really to be done about that, short of relying on the public's commitment to the process to get folk back in line.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Yeah. It's annoying that's there's nothing really to be done about that, short of relying on the public's commitment to the process to get folk back in line.
    They're just generally not a bunch of people open to change or compromise. They opposed all 3 peace agreements because they're idiots and had 2 of them thrown out, and all the compromises that have been made, have been made by republicans, not unionists. They act like children and get away with it. The vast majority of their voters act the same.

    A lot of smart unionists don't vote for unionist parties anymore - like adam9317. See http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=4024597

    Remember the Belfast City Hall riots a few years ago? That was DUP and UUP voters. The incident caused the coining of the term 'flegger'.

    The term is a perfect encapsulation of the disproportionate and overblown reaction to the removal of the Union Jack (as in 'de fleg') from above City Hall in Belfast. Where previously it had flown for 365 days per year, it is now flown on 17 designated days of the year - in line with pretty much all other British cities.

    The event caused a portion of the Protestant community ('fleggers') to make international pricks of themselves as they proceeded to wreck the ****ing place, claiming it was another erosion of a 'British' identity they perceive to have been under attack since the horrifying spectre of equality reared its head in the North of Ireland.

    The word 'fleg' - and indeed 'fleggers' - fittingly describes a section of humanity unconcerned with knowledge, reality or the vagaries of the English language. Like America's tea-baggers they are ruled by instinct, fear and paranoia with a side dish of rampant bigotry and startling ignorance of the world around them.

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    Isn't the very idea of 'reuniting' Northern Ireland with the Republic purely fuelled by ultra-nationalism and xenophobia with elements of fascism, racism and imperialism thrown in for good measure?

    What I mean by this, is what is the reason that people born 100 years after the 'oppression of Ireland for thousands of years' ended and after the creation of an entirely independent republic that people in both the north and south still feel some militant Irish identity that wants to expand the borders of the Irish state to encompass the entire island of Ireland, largely regardless of the strong desire from the vast, overwhelming majority of Northern Irish people who want to remain part of the United Kingdom?

    Why is there a sense among republicans that Northern Ireland 'belongs' to the rest of Ireland? What is the justification for such a notion, is it because of historical borders? Why would that be valid in Ireland but not a cause for today's Russia to expand to the old borders of the Imperial Russian Empire, or for say Britain to annex Ireland because it was in one way or another ruled by England for well over 800 years? How is Irish expansionism different to European Imperialism or American Manifest Destiny?

    There is such unjustifiable anglophobia on a scale not even seen among true sufferers of British imperialism, such as the Indians, and integral, knee-jerk barbarity to such an extent that it's not even safe to use to term 'Londonderry' for the presence of the word 'London' in it. I'm sorry to say that I renounce my heavy Irish ancestry and ethnicity for risk of being associated with such backwards nonsense. It's entirely fuelled by racism and an embarrassing sense of entitlement borne out of the false notion of suffering and abuse.

    Finally, why don't people in the North who want to be part of the Republic of Ireland just pack up and move? The only things stopping them are the backwards factors I have listed above that have no place in the 21st century.

    And what's with the frankly embarrassing rage that so many Irish people feel at the term 'British Isles'? It's a geographic term, as is Ireland, the English Channel, North Sea, Caribbean and North America. You don't hear the Isle of Man complaining about being situated in the Irish Sea.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    No problem - nice to have some intelligent questions once in a while
    Usually it's just "why are you a terrorist sympathiser" and "do you think these babykillers were heroes" - I mean seriously, calm down
    Openly supporting the IRA categorically makes you a terroist sympathiser.
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    (Original post by a noble chance)
    Openly supporting the IRA categorically makes you a terroist sympathiser.
    No it doesn't.
    Supporting the original IRA - which every Irish person does - is not.
    Supporting the Provisional IRA and INLA makes you a paramilitary sympathiser, as defined by the Good Friday Agreement.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    No it doesn't.
    Supporting the original IRA - which every Irish person does - is not.
    Supporting the Provisional IRA and INLA makes you a paramilitary sympathiser, as defined by the Good Friday Agreement.
    You aren't really so naive as to think that any British drafter of the GFA disagreed with the terrorist label are you? It was done out of appeasement

    The IRA was a despicable, Nazi-supporting terrorist organisation.
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    (Original post by a noble chance)
    You aren't really so naive as to think that any British drafter of the GFA disagreed with the terrorist label are you? It was done out of appeasement

    The IRA was a despicable, Nazi-supporting terrorist organisation.
    What? Are you insane? They were a left-leaning organisation. They also did not exist until nearly 3 decades after the fall of the Nazi regime.

    If you're going to be lie that, are you really so naive as to think that any republican representative at the GFA talks disagreed with the 'freedom fighter' label?
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    (Original post by Roofas)
    Isn't the very idea of 'reuniting' Northern Ireland with the Republic purely fuelled by ultra-nationalism and xenophobia with elements of fascism, racism and imperialism thrown in for good measure?

    No, because very very few republicans are racist, and none are fascist.
    Imperialism?

    What I mean by this, is what is the reason that people born 100 years after the 'oppression of Ireland for thousands of years' ended and after the creation of an entirely independent republic that people in both the north and south still feel some militant Irish identity that wants to expand the borders of the Irish state to encompass the entire island of Ireland, largely regardless of the strong desire from the vast, overwhelming majority of Northern Irish people who want to remain part of the United Kingdom?
    We do not want to expand the borders of the Free State. We want to abolish both and create an all-Ireland state.
    That is completely unfounded. The Sinn Féin vote share in the NI Assembly as of now is 26.9% to a DUP majority of 30.1%.

    Why is there a sense among republicans that Northern Ireland 'belongs' to the rest of Ireland? What is the justification for such a notion, is it because of historical borders? Why would that be valid in Ireland but not a cause for today's Russia to expand to the old borders of the Imperial Russian Empire, or for say Britain to annex Ireland because it was in one way or another ruled by England for well over 800 years? How is Irish expansionism different to European Imperialism or American Manifest Destiny?
    That is nobody's thinking. We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign power and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; nine times during the past four hundred years they have asserted it in arms.

    That is a stupid argument. Ireland belongs to the Irish people because it is Ireland. This is nothing like Russia's political borders with the whole European and Asian mainland. This is not and never has been expansionism. We reject the Free State and its failures. It and its government are intrinsically corrupt, and have been since the premiership of Charlie Haughey.

    There is such unjustifiable anglophobia on a scale not even seen among true sufferers of British imperialism, such as the Indians, and integral, knee-jerk barbarity to such an extent that it's not even safe to use to term 'Londonderry' for the presence of the word 'London' in it. I'm sorry to say that I renounce my heavy Irish ancestry and ethnicity for risk of being associated with such backwards nonsense. It's entirely fuelled by racism and an embarrassing sense of entitlement borne out of the false notion of suffering and abuse.
    I'm going to let your ignorance slide this time - you clearly know little of the history of the Irish people and their oppression.
    Anglophobia? There is no Anglophobia among republicans. Towards the English establishment and government, yes.
    Derry is just a stupid name dispute which has got way out of hand. Nobody even uses the full 'official' name because we'd be out of breath by the time we said anything else. I don't know why unionists must assert the name Londonderry when Derry has always been called Derry. There's even a unionist organisation called the "Apprentice Boys of Derry".
    You're a fool for thinking it is fuelled by racism in any way. I'm going to let those stupid, provocative comments slide as well because you somehow think we haven't suffered.

    Finally, why don't people in the North who want to be part of the Republic of Ireland just pack up and move? The only things stopping them are the backwards factors I have listed above that have no place in the 21st century.
    "Pack up and move"? That is a stupid idea. Republicans in the Six Counties do not want to move into the 26 counties for obvious reasons, along with the fact that the "Republic" does not represent in any way the true republic, partly for the reasons above stated. That would also just be advancing the ideals of the Plantations in Ireland and enforcing partition.

    And what's with the frankly embarrassing rage that so many Irish people feel at the term 'British Isles'? It's a geographic term, as is Ireland, the English Channel, North Sea, Caribbean and North America. You don't hear the Isle of Man complaining about being situated in the Irish Sea.
    There is a reason the term is no longer used in an official context by some governments. Some take offence at their island being called 'British' because this name is seen by some as carrying imperialist overtones. Other names used to describe the islands include the Anglo-Celtic Isles, Pretanic Isles, Atlantic archipelago, British-Irish Isles, Britain and Ireland, UK and Ireland, and British Isles and Ireland.
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    (Original post by Roofas)
    What I mean by this, is what is the reason that people born 100 years after the 'oppression of Ireland for thousands of years' ended and after the creation of an entirely independent republic that people in both the north and south still feel some militant Irish identity
    Which people? I myself grew up in and was subjected to this oppression in the north that has lasted for 800 years.
    And we can't forget, because of the atrocities committed by the British Army. Here's what we found out last week: The British Ministry of Defence has cut out sections of military operational logs relating to the killing of 11-year-old schoolboy Francis Rowntree by a soldier in 1972, it has emerged as the inquest into his death continues 44 years after the tragedy. http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25922
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    No, because very very few republicans are racist, and none are fascist.
    Imperialism?



    We do not want to expand the borders of the Free State. We want to abolish both and create an all-Ireland state.
    That is completely unfounded. The Sinn Féin vote share in the NI Assembly as of now is 26.9% to a DUP majority of 30.1%.



    That is nobody's thinking. We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign power and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; nine times during the past four hundred years they have asserted it in arms.

    That is a stupid argument. Ireland belongs to the Irish people because it is Ireland. This is nothing like Russia's political borders with the whole European and Asian mainland. This is not and never has been expansionism. We reject the Free State and its failures. It and its government are intrinsically corrupt, and have been since the premiership of Charlie Haughey.



    I'm going to let your ignorance slide this time - you clearly know little of the history of the Irish people and their oppression.
    Anglophobia? There is no Anglophobia among republicans. Towards the English establishment and government, yes.
    Derry is just a stupid name dispute which has got way out of hand. Nobody even uses the full 'official' name because we'd be out of breath by the time we said anything else. I don't know why unionists must assert the name Londonderry when Derry has always been called Derry. There's even a unionist organisation called the "Apprentice Boys of Derry".
    You're a fool for thinking it is fuelled by racism in any way. I'm going to let those stupid, provocative comments slide as well because you somehow think we haven't suffered.



    "Pack up and move"? That is a stupid idea. Republicans in the Six Counties do not want to move into the 26 counties for obvious reasons, along with the fact that the "Republic" does not represent in any way the true republic, partly for the reasons above stated. That would also just be advancing the ideals of the Plantations in Ireland and enforcing partition.



    There is a reason the term is no longer used in an official context by some governments. Some take offence at their island being called 'British' because this name is seen by some as carrying imperialist overtones. Other names used to describe the islands include the Anglo-Celtic Isles, Pretanic Isles, Atlantic archipelago, British-Irish Isles, Britain and Ireland, UK and Ireland, and British Isles and Ireland.
    The arrogance of it all

    You want a united Ireland under a republic

    Northern Ireland doesn't

    Simply leave the poor *******s alone.
 
 
 
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