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David cameron admits that the british museum are full of stolen artifacts. Watch

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    As usual
    So many people misunderstood the thread. :facepalm:

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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    We have a great culture, part of which is generously looking after precious artefacts which would otherwise have been destroyed by whichever philistines were occupying their place of origin and displaying them for all the world to see.
    Again, look at the burglar logic. We can't keep things that dont belong to us on the premise that we can look after it.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    Again, look at the burglar logic. We can't keep things that dont belong to us on the premise that we can look after it.
    They do belong to us. More precisely, they belong to the British Museum, I believe.
    (Original post by IAmNero)
    Didn't India just admit the Koh-I-Noor diamond was a gift? How long before they admit it for the rest of the artifacts?
    The Indian government admitted it in Indian proceedings, yes.

    Lucky for us: we wouldn't have wanted the Tower of London besieged by Indian bailiffs.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    They do belong to us. More precisely, they belong to the British Museum, I believe.
    'Stolen artifacts' should give you a clue. They dont. Hence why Cameron had to say “If you say yes to one, you suddenly find the British Museum would be empty. It is going to have to stay put.”
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    Its so bad anyway return all the artefacts #vivalanaturalhistorymuseum
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    'Stolen artifacts' should give you a clue. They dont. Hence why Cameron had to say “If you say yes to one, you suddenly find the British Museum would be empty. It is going to have to stay put.”
    What, the name you gave to these things -- which don't all share the same provenance, by the way -- should give me a clue?

    The arguments behind the 'demands' for the return of many of these things are completely idiotic, made by opportunists with no connection whatsoever to the artefacts or the civilisations that created them for items which were lawfully acquired from their owners at the time (as witness the recent intervention of the Indian government on the Koh-i-Noor diamond), and acceding to one such ridiculous demand would open the floodgates to more. That is why Cameron had to take the stance he did.
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    This isn't exactly news. What's British about the British museum?
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    What, the name you gave to these things -- which don't all share the same provenance, by the way -- should give me a clue?

    The arguments behind the 'demands' for the return of many of these things are completely idiotic, made by opportunists with no connection whatsoever to the artefacts or the civilisations that created them for items which were lawfully acquired from their owners at the time (as witness the recent intervention of the Indian government on the Koh-i-Noor diamond), and acceding to one such ridiculous demand would open the floodgates to more. That is why Cameron had to take the stance he did.
    There are stolen artifacts, only you seem to dispute that. I'm not going to argue that with you because your claim is ridiculous.

    Just search 'British Museum stolen artifacts', gives you an idea of how much of the stuff in this museum is stolen as a result of colonialism etc etc

    Hence they are not idiotic because you are fundamentally wrong in suggesting they are all lawfully acquired by the owners (also showing your lack of knowledge in the topic)

    Cameron made the stance because he knew that many others would demand their stuff back, many of which arent legally acquired. In the past, they have been forced to hand stuff back and are constantly facing pressure because the museum and people like you hold up cultural imperialism.
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    Karl Pilkington was right!
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    What, the name you gave to these things -- which don't all share the same provenance, by the way -- should give me a clue?

    The arguments behind the 'demands' for the return of many of these things are completely idiotic, made by opportunists with no connection whatsoever to the artefacts or the civilisations that created them for items which were lawfully acquired from their owners at the time (as witness the recent intervention of the Indian government on the Koh-i-Noor diamond), and acceding to one such ridiculous demand would open the floodgates to more. That is why Cameron had to take the stance he did.
    Note that David didn't say all artifacts in the British museum would be disputed. He said the museum would be empty. Speaks of how much confidence he has on the legitimacy of the artifacts.

    Poor choice of words dave. Accidentally spilling the beans.

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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    Note that David didn't say all artifacts in the British museum would be disputed. He said the museum would be empty. Speaks of how much confidence he has on the legitimacy of the artifacts.

    Poor choice of words dave. Accidentally spilling the beans.

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    Yes. If you start acceding to silly demands like the 'return' of the Koh-i-Noor diamond, you will start acceding to every silly demand. Hence, the museum would be empty.
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    (Original post by DrSocSciences)
    'Keeping their marbles: How the treasures of the past ended up in museums, and why they should stay there' (2016) by Tiffany Jenkins covers this in depth.
    Have these guys never played marbles? Once you've lost your marbles, they're not yours anymore, whinging that they're yours and you want them back doesn't wash.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yes. If you start acceding to silly demands like the 'return' of the Koh-i-Noor diamond, you will start acceding to every silly demand. Hence, the museum would be empty.
    If the demand illegitimate, nothing will be returned.

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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    If the demand illegitimate, nothing will be returned.

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    Indeed. This is why he had to refuse it.
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    If people want their stuff back they can always steal it back, after all, the British armed forces aren't quite what they were in the day, maybe the "owners" can win now they have a weaker adversary.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Indeed. This is why he had to refuse it.
    Then nothing to worry then. Why are you getting butthurt. What David Cameron accidentally spilled about the artifacts in British museum is the opposite of your opinion.

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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    Then nothing to worry then. Why are you getting butthurt. What David Cameron accidentally spilled about the artifacts in British museum is the opposite of your opinion.

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    You're an idiot.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    You're an idiot.
    I apologise for embarrassing you too badly.

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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    It's because there is no such thing as british culture

    smh
    I dont disagree with most of your argument.. there is certainly a case for giving back stolen artifacts..

    I would say on a case-by-case basis, the return of artifacts should be considered, baring in mind the current state of the country, (for example returning a valuable piece of history to the oppressive dictator who currently runs that country would be a no. But returning stolen work to a community who wants to treasure their own history, would be a yes.)

    But you belittle your whole argument with the quote above.

    The Uk is one of the oldest modern countries with a huge history and culture of its own. It really does not take to long to write a massive list of examples of british culture and historical importance. If you really dont believe that the UK has any cultrual worth (and presuming this is the country you live in) then spend 10 minutes googling the following:

    Spoiler:
    Show

    All the inventions and innovations created by british people (start with the internet that your currently using, and work back to the industrial revolution and before..

    British litterature (un-arguably some of the best and most influencial in the world)

    British architecture,

    British contribution to the arts

    The impact of british theatre traditions

    British sport, and the numerous games invented and pioneered in england.. see football, cricket, rugby etc.

    British impact on modern educational thinking (see historical universities, and private schools, and how their methods pioneered world-wide change

    The NHS.. The oldest public healthcare service in the world

    Regional culture differences: Celtic, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Cornish.. Also look at anglo-saxon history, Roman history, and french history in england.

    Take a look at some of the UKs famous landmarks and cultrual buildings, castles, churches, palaces etc.

    The british monarchy.

    Negative parts of british culture, the slave trade, colonialism, opium wars, inventionism in africa etc.

    Britians role as one of the first modern democracies

    British traditional food + the pub culture

    Social culture and the class structure (for good or bad, this is part of our culture)

    British comedy + humour, unique to itself

    British contribution to modern music, and popular culture through the 50s onwards

    British philosphy

    British contribution to modern medicine

    The English language

    British contribution to science and religion.. Charles darwin, Isaac Newton.. the creation of the CoE

    Humanism, Protestantism, Representative democracy

    The BBC being one of the oldest and largest public broadcasters in the world..



    Seriously.. if you live in this country, and cant find examples of british culture, then to be honest you should leave. Not because your not welcome, but because taking some time away from life in the UK, will probably help you to notice better what makes the UK unique.

    Its what happened to me.. when I was growing up in the UK, I didnt think it had a strong culture, because well it was the 'norm' - normal is not exciting or distinct, to me british culture was just boring and normal.. and other countries culture was so distinct and different and unique.

    But then a while back I left england, and now I live far away in another country, and honestly, it gives you perspective.. when I look back now its very clear what english culture is, both the good and the bad.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    I dont disagree with most of your argument.. there is certainly a case for giving back stolen artifacts..

    I would say on a case-by-case basis, the return of artifacts should be considered, baring in mind the current state of the country, (for example returning a valuable piece of history to the oppressive dictator who currently runs that country would be a no. But returning stolen work to a community who wants to treasure their own history, would be a yes.)

    But you belittle your whole argument with the quote above.

    The Uk is one of the oldest modern countries with a huge history and culture of its own. It really does not take to long to write a massive list of examples of british culture and historical importance. If you really dont believe that the UK has any cultrual worth (and presuming this is the country you live in) then spend 10 minutes googling the following:

    Spoiler:
    Show

    All the inventions and innovations created by british people (start with the internet that your currently using, and work back to the industrial revolution and before..

    British litterature (un-arguably some of the best and most influencial in the world)

    British architecture,

    British contribution to the arts

    The impact of british theatre traditions

    British sport, and the numerous games invented and pioneered in england.. see football, cricket, rugby etc.

    British impact on modern educational thinking (see historical universities, and private schools, and how their methods pioneered world-wide change

    The NHS.. The oldest public healthcare service in the world

    Regional culture differences: Celtic, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Cornish.. Also look at anglo-saxon history, Roman history, and french history in england.

    Take a look at some of the UKs famous landmarks and cultrual buildings, castles, churches, palaces etc.

    The british monarchy.

    Negative parts of british culture, the slave trade, colonialism, opium wars, inventionism in africa etc.

    Britians role as one of the first modern democracies

    British traditional food + the pub culture

    Social culture and the class structure (for good or bad, this is part of our culture)

    British comedy + humour, unique to itself

    British contribution to modern music, and popular culture through the 50s onwards

    British philosphy

    British contribution to modern medicine

    The English language

    British contribution to science and religion.. Charles darwin, Isaac Newton.. the creation of the CoE

    Humanism, Protestantism, Representative democracy

    The BBC being one of the oldest and largest public broadcasters in the world..



    Seriously.. if you live in this country, and cant find examples of british culture, then to be honest you should leave. Not because your not welcome, but because taking some time away from life in the UK, will probably help you to notice better what makes the UK unique.

    Its what happened to me.. when I was growing up in the UK, I didnt think it had a strong culture, because well it was the 'norm' - normal is not exciting or distinct, to me british culture was just boring and normal.. and other countries culture was so distinct and different and unique.

    But then a while back I left england, and now I live far away in another country, and honestly, it gives you perspective.. when I look back now its very clear what english culture is, both the good and the bad.
    So much ownage in this post


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