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E.U Leave or Remain: limiting E.U migration to the U.K Watch

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    (Original post by plstudent)
    It is indeed impossible to limit EU migration while in the EU. A remainer got that question in the EU debate and she had no idea how to answer

    :https://youtu.be/SuizZM6M0d4?t=1h23m52s
    Well, to be honest, no, you cannot restrict immigration of EU nationals to the UK while an EU Member State. But it's a worthy tradeoff for the enormous economic benefits access to the Single Market gives us.

    Assuming it is a 'tradeoff' at all, of course. I have no problem with EU nationals coming here, any more than the millions of Brits who move around the EU.

    Leave campaigners have no answer for what to do with those Brits in Spain.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    We are not part of Schengen, so we have control of our borders already. We can kick out any non-UK EU citizen who does not get work or residence within a particular time-frame, and eject any convicted of a crime.

    We can't control our borders, in the sense that we have to let anyone who has an EU passport into the UK (that's 100s of 1000s every year, from very poor countries). FACT. And no, we can't kick them out for the reasons you gave, only for reasons like terrorism links.
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    (Original post by james813)
    We can't control our borders, in the sense that we have to let anyone who has an EU passport into the UK (that's 100s of 1000s every year, from very poor countries). FACT. And no, we can't kick them out for the reasons you gave, only for reasons like terrorism links.
    Not true. Around 6,000 EU nationals have been denied entry to the UK since 2010, and EU law declares that free movement of people within the EU is not an unqualified right and can be restricted on grounds of “public policy, public security or public health”. This means that serious offenders can be denied entry and the right to live in Britain.

    I have no interest in restricting the freedom of movement of ordinary, law-abiding Europeans any more than I want to block Scottish people from moving to London.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    but could decide on our own immigration policies in particular with respect to how we deal with people from the EU, where 80% of migration comes…
    This is wrong, around 60% of long-term migrants (those staying for more than a year) come from outside the EU.
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    (Original post by james813)
    We can't control our borders, in the sense that we have to let anyone who has an EU passport into the UK (that's 100s of 1000s every year, from very poor countries). FACT. And no, we can't kick them out for the reasons you gave, only for reasons like terrorism links.
    No, we can exclude them for any number of reasons, from vagrancy upwards.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Not true. Around 6,000 EU nationals have been denied entry to the UK since 2010, and EU law declares that free movement of people within the EU is not an unqualified right and can be restricted on grounds of “public policy, public security or public health”. This means that serious offenders can be denied entry and the right to live in Britain.

    I have no interest in restricting the freedom of movement of ordinary, law-abiding Europeans any more than I want to block Scottish people from moving to London.
    1.5 million EU citizens came to live in the UK in that period - and that's if you believe the official figures - so boasting about stopping 6000 is nothing. This massive inflow of unskilled labour may not make a difference to privately educated people like you, but ordinary people struggling with wage compression or to buy a home will want controlled immigration, meaning we can control the quantity and quality of migration, from across the world (I think immigration will then be seen as a very very good thing).

    Also, taking working age people from Poland or Romania only makes them poorer, which is immoral.
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    (Original post by james813)
    1.5 million EU citizens came to live in the UK in that period - and that's if you believe the official figures - so boasting about stopping 6000 is nothing. This massive inflow of unskilled labour may not make a difference to privately educated people like you, but ordinary people struggling with wage compression or to buy a home will want controlled immigration, meaning we can control the quantity and quality of migration, from across the world (I think immigration will then be seen as a very very good thing).
    Blame the companies underpaying, not the people seeking employment.

    Also, taking working age people from Poland or Romania only makes them poorer, which is immoral.
    They come here temporarily, get money, then go home, or send it home, making them wealthier.
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    (Original post by typonaut)
    No, we can exclude them for any number of reasons, from vagrancy upwards.
    Are you seriously suggesting that the UK can keep EU nationals out "for any number of reasons"? The standards that have to be met for that are quite high.

    There are many ways EU nationals have to remain in the host country once they migrated, including education, employment and simply having enough means to live.

    Otherwise, EU nationals can't be deported unless it is proven that they are a danger to society.
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    people who are saying bad things about immigration are racists and bigots, f*** having borders and laws and **** it's all just racism.
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    (Original post by ErniePicks)
    people who are saying bad things about immigration are racists and bigots, f*** having borders and laws and **** it's all just racism.
    If you don't like laws, my friend, the EU is the last institution for you. They have laws and regulations for almost everything.
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    (Original post by plstudent)
    If you don't like laws, my friend, the EU is the last institution for you. They have laws and regulations for almost everything.
    No the EU brings many more refugees so we need to stay in and we are more likely to have more borders which is good because we will be less white and become more multicultural, it is even better because it means more muslims which brings more vibrant diversity.
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    What is with this universal meme that there is such a thing as "EU migration"?

    The only migration that we should be centering this discussion around is EEA migration. And considering that there are actually 3 options in this debate (which the media want to entirely ignore), not just "Leave" and "Remain", then this is what should be discussed.

    And as we will stay in the EEA if we vote to leave, why this is even a point of discussion is a nonsense.

    ~
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    (Original post by ErniePicks)
    No the EU brings many more refugees so we need to stay in and we are more likely to have more borders which is good because we will be less white and become more multicultural, it is even better because it means more muslims which brings more vibrant diversity.
    You mean less borders? I don't have a problem with being white. You sound like an anti-white racist.
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    (Original post by plstudent)
    You mean less borders? I don't have a problem with being white. You sound like an anti-white racist.
    Whites are privelijed so we cannot be affected by racism because we are not opressed, we need more refugees and interracial breeding so we can be more vibrant and diverse.
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    (Original post by ErniePicks)
    Whites are privelijed so we cannot be affected by racism because we are not opressed, we need more refugees and interracial breeding so we can be more vibrant and diverse.
    Being affected by racism can happen to anybody. If you mix up all the colors, how does that create diversity? You make no sense.
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    (Original post by plstudent)
    Are you seriously suggesting that the UK can keep EU nationals out "for any number of reasons"? The standards that have to be met for that are quite high.

    There are many ways EU nationals have to remain…
    The argument I was making is that EU nationals can be excluded for any number of reasons, you are making a different argument: the reasons they can remain in the UK. I accept that the default position is that EU nationals can reside in the UK.

    That does not mean that they cannot be excluded from entering the UK, nor that they cannot be deported. Last year around 6,000 EU nationals were excluded.

    Here is an overview of when/how EU nationals can be excluded/deported from the UK:

    https://fullfact.org/europe/explaini...eu-immigrants/

    Here is an article about Romanian vagrants being deported:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/451...r-Agency-swoop
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    (Original post by typonaut)
    The argument I was making is that EU nationals can be excluded for any number of reasons, you are making a different argument: the reasons they can remain in the UK.
    To say that EU migrants can be kept out "for any number of reasons" is deceiving. They can only be prevented from entering the country for specific reasons, namely "public policy, public security or public health".

    (Original post by typonaut)
    Last year around 6,000 EU nationals were excluded.
    6000 is the figure since 2010, not for last year.

    https://twitter.com/hugodixon/status/713806869140209665

    To put it into perspective, more than 600,000 EU nationals entered the country last year alone.
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    (Original post by plstudent)
    To say that EU migrants can be kept out "for any number of reasons" is deceiving. They can only be prevented from entering the country for specific reasons, namely "public policy, public security or public health".
    It is not deceiving, because each of these areas has wide scope - they are not narrowly defined.

    6000 is the figure since 2010, not for last year.
    Not quite, the BBC says it is 6,500 since 2010, but I concede that I was wrong:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36101449

    To put it into perspective, more than 600,000 EU nationals entered the country last year alone.
    That doesn't put it into perspective (and that figure is obviously wrong). Visit Britain says that the UK had 34.377 million foreign visitors in 2014:

    https://www.visitbritain.org/2014-snapshot

    4.1 million of these came from France alone (so 600,000 makes no sense at all).
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    (Original post by james813)
    1.5 million EU citizens came to live in the UK in that period - and that's if you believe the official figures - so boasting about stopping 6000 is nothing. This massive inflow of unskilled labour may not make a difference to privately educated people like you, but ordinary people struggling with wage compression or to buy a home will want controlled immigration, meaning we can control the quantity and quality of migration, from across the world (I think immigration will then be seen as a very very good thing).

    Also, taking working age people from Poland or Romania only makes them poorer, which is immoral.
    The upside of wage compression is lower inflation and cheaper goods and services which benefits the poor more than the better off.
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    (Original post by typonaut)
    It is not deceiving, because each of these areas has wide scope - they are not narrowly defined.
    It depends on what you are comparing them to. The burden of evidence is very high, in any case, and officials have come out and claimed it is nearly impossible to prevent EU nationals from entering.

    At any rate, the number of people that have been prevented from coming in doesn't speak for the criteria for exclusion being very forgiving.

    (Original post by typonaut)
    IThat doesn't put it into perspective (and that figure is obviously wrong). Visit Britain says that the UK had 34.377 million foreign visitors in 2014:https://www.visitbritain.org/2014-snapshot4.1 million of these came from France alone (so 600,000 makes no sense at all).
    So less than 1% of EU nationals coming in have been stopped. I only used 600,000 as a safe minimum based on the number of new insurance numbers but thanks for looking up the actual figures.
 
 
 
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