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    (Original post by fatima1998)
    ontological argument proves god exists
    paley's watch proves some sort of evidence...
    but its more about your own life experience, if you feel the presence of the God then its your own experience if not then its your own experience
    i dont really believe in these arguments - i believe what i have experienced.
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/te...#DedDesArgSch2


    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/on...nts/#ObjOntArg

    There are some good arguments for God, but these two generally are some of the worst
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    (Original post by fatima1998)
    ontological argument proves god exists
    paley's watch proves some sort of evidence...
    'Paley's watch.' :toofunny:

    Both have been refuted, to my knowledge, although I can't quite remember the refutation for the first of the two.

    but its more about your own life experience, if you feel the presence of the God then its your own experience if not then its your own experience
    i dont really believe in these arguments - i believe what i have experienced.
    Is that why you've cited them?

    Personal, unverifiable experience doesn't matter when discussing what is objectively true. You were better off with the design argument.
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    I do because surely the universe didn't just 'happen' into being- An effect needs a cause. Something caused the big bang and no Scientist knows what caused it. Therefore I concluded it must've been God. Certain events in my life have also reinforced my belief in god.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    'Paley's watch.' :toofunny:

    Both have been refuted, to my knowledge, although I can't quite remember the refutation for the first of the two.



    Is that why you've cited them?

    Personal experience doesn't matter when discussing what is true. You were better off with the design argument.
    i mentioned them because you mentioned some of the arguments denying the existence of god!
    for you truth is different and for truth is different - and for me experience DO matter... its my own preference
    dont be semi-sarcastic
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    (Original post by fatima1998)
    ontological argument proves god exists
    paley's watch proves some sort of evidence...
    but its more about your own life experience, if you feel the presence of the God then its your own experience if not then its your own experience
    i dont really believe in these arguments - i believe what i have experienced.
    Both of those arguments are flawed beyond belief and have been refuted to the high heavens, they most certainly do not prove the existence of any supernatural creator.

    To the OP, not as such, no. I embrace the idea of the all-pervading energy of life though.
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    (Original post by fatima1998)
    i mentioned them because you mentioned some of the arguments denying the existence of god!
    No, I didn't. I simply stated that the argument that you had cited had been extensively refuted in the past and that, therefore, it's not reasonable to still present that as proof for beliefs that you have, in all likelihood, inherited from your parents.

    for you truth is different and for truth is different
    Nope. When looking at objective issues -- the existence of an all-powerful creator of the universe being one of these -- there's no such thing as 'my truth' or 'your truth.' Simply asserting otherwise won't make it the case.

    - and for me experience DO matter... its my own preference
    As above, when discussing objective truths, there's no room for the personal. It's incorrect to claim that something must be objectively true because you have a feeling that it is. That would be the very definition of subjective.

    dont be semi-sarcastic
    I'm not.
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    Credo.
    • Study Helper
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    Study Helper
    There is no intelligent design.

    There is no God.

    Religion is a bunch of made up **** embraced by people who struggle to cope with reality.
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    (Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
    Christianity as a religion gave us more than anything else ever could. A structured, good set of morals, art, literature, law, the church had a hand in Magna Carta, the most amazing architecture in the world, a united population behind one belief, the list is endless.

    As I said, I'm still agnostic for the most part, but denying that Christianity has had a good and moral influence on our society is ludicrous.
    I dunno... Not necessarily.
    Is there any way to compare society with vs. without religion, whilst controlling for confounding factors? I'm not sure there is.
    Religion has generally meant repression and control, and inflexibility of thought, as far as I'm aware.
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    There has to be a God.We humans did not fall from the sky there has to be a beginning for humans to evolve. The
    theory of evolution does not make sense and its
    a fairytail. There is a god who will judge us based on our action after death.The most intriguing fact is that we all are going to die at some stage why cant we live forever? this is because god has a set a time for you and he will judge you in accordance of your action.
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    (Original post by slipper flipper)
    our bodies have more flaws than can be counted

    http://nautil.us/issue/24/error/top-...the-human-body

    hardly what i would call 'intelligent' design.
    Aging and cancer.
    Brains that can barely comprehend our own bodies or the world and universe we exist within, and that for some reason inherently wants to kill others.
    Very intelligent design!
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    Aging and cancer.
    Brains that can barely comprehend our own bodies or the world and universe we exist within, and that for some reason inherently wants to kill others.
    Very intelligent design!
    But don't forget 'life is a test' and 'God works in mysterious ways'.
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    (Original post by slipper flipper)
    But don't forget 'life is a test' and 'God works in mysterious ways'.


    'Life is a test' -> in which case, all evil is paradoxically 'beneficial'.

    Things that kill you before you have begun (many things), put a thorn in that side too (good old neuronal ceroid lipofuscinosis et al.!). Nothing like the violent and unmitigated baby torture test.
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    (Original post by BubbleBoobies)
    does that suggest that god exists though? the enlightenment took western religion and spat out a skeleton - religion pretty much, in this era, means nothing. it's a vague set of ideas that aren't even held onto particularly tightly. christians these days by a majority don't even believe in most of the things the bible says.



    do you really think that christianity is a unique and outstanding religion in the sense that the doctrines it prescribes couldn't be reproduced if they were forgotten tomorrow? christianity's ideas of "love thy neighbour" and "do unto others" are basically common sense. in terms of the 10 commandments, only about 3 of those actually apply to modern society. and "thou shall not kill" isn't something a person would require christianity to understand, right? seeing as buddhists aren't more homicidal than theists
    This.

    Honestly, when you compare the two Buddhism makes Christianity look like satanism! Especially the Old Testament. As far as I'm aware Buddhism and Jainism are the only two religions which include equality for all in their doctrine and in Buddhism even thinking negative thoughts about any living creature is discouraged as it generates dukkha (suffering). The idea that Christianity is what gives people morals is pretty darn stupid, tbh. While Christians and Muslims were busy killing each other in the crusades, the bodhi (monks) and laymen were all trying to attain metta, the state of being in which you have zero negative thoughts towards any living being, regard all living things as your equals and cherish every living being. It's quite a difference! I must admit to being a little biased since I'm a Theravadin though.

    As for the OPs question, nope, I'm an atheist Buddhist. A monk once asked the Buddha about the whether the gods existed or not (these were Hindu Buddhists). The Buddha simply asked him, "how is that going to help you achieve your goal?" In other words, whether there's a god or not is completely irrelevant. Life would still be the same with or without one so why does it even matter? I've got much more important and productive things to use my brainpower for, like chemistry and physics - things which actually get the results believers pray for.

    Besides, there is zero empirical evidence which even remotely suggests the existence of a god. It's far more sensible to put your faith in fact than in fairy tales. In fact, most of the "spiritual experiences" people think they have arise purely from a lack of understanding of physics or hallucinations/delusions. Take my Uncle for example, he got a static electric shock while some nutter was ranting about the "power of God" and that coincidence was enough to make him believe that his static electric shock was the Holy Spirit flowing into him.
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    (Original post by fatima1998)
    aha.. i do...
    world is so complex- everything is well designed and set up perfectly... surely there is someone who did this :yes:
    This and many other reasons. :yep:
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    I dunno... Not necessarily.
    Is there any way to compare society with vs. without religion, whilst controlling for confounding factors? I'm not sure there is.
    Religion has generally meant repression and control, and inflexibility of thought, as far as I'm aware.
    Here's some links to objective sources:
    https://www.theobjectivestandard.com...rsus-morality/
    http://www.livescience.com/47799-mor...l-beliefs.html
    http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/ethics.html
    http://www.anti-naturals.org/theory/religion.html
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ore-moral.html

    Just for giggles, here's a Christian source:
    https://www.christiancourier.com/art...d-morality-the


    (Original post by robin567)
    There has to be a God.We humans did not fall from the sky there has to be a beginning for humans to evolve. The
    theory of evolution does not make sense and its
    a fairytail. There is a god who will judge us based on our action after death.The most intriguing fact is that we all are going to die at some stage why cant we live forever? this is because god has a set a time for you and he will judge you in accordance of your action.
    http://youtu.be/BS5vid4GkEY
    http://youtu.be/z1xUiuZvUuw
    http://youtu.be/9V_2r2n4b5c
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I embrace the idea of the all-pervading energy of life.
    Hydeman - thoughts?

    My immediate reaction was: LOL. Then I thought about it some more, and concluded that he almost said something. Almost.
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    hell yeah.
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    (Original post by slipper flipper)
    Hydeman - thoughts?

    My immediate reaction was: LOL. Then I thought about it some more, and concluded that he almost said something. Almost.
    I'd have to know what exactly he means by it to make any meaningful comment.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I'd have to know what exactly he means by it to make any meaningful comment.
    Exactly. :moon:
 
 
 
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