The Student Room Group

First time in NHS history

Scroll to see replies

Original post by Suave
Until that happens I can't support a strike on emergency services.


Would you prefer if all the doctors all just quit instead?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36126740

Have people seen this crap?

"Junior doctors' leaders 'trying to topple the government'"
Still support the junior doctors and always will. Think about it - the only reason Jeremy Hunt would refuse any offers from the BMA, refuse to talk to the doctors and refuse to remove imposition is because he has a secret agenda. And it doesn't take a genius to work out that it's privatisation, given how many Tories have interests in private healthcare companies and that Hunt has been in support of abolishing the NHS in favour of an insurance system. This Parliament still have until 2020 to "fulfill their mandate" - why does Hunt insist on doing it now, refusing to talk or listen to the doctors? Everyone in this country knows we already have a 7-day NHS and the Tories still think they can pull the wool over our eyes with an uncosted, unmodelled, unplanned and purely ideological drive to spread doctors even thinner than they are already. A contract that disadvantages women, part-time trainees, doctors who change specialty and doctors who take time out for research is completely unacceptable. Contrary to what Hunt and the media want you to believe, the biggest threat to patient safety is not staffing levels - it's this contract.

I can't see Hunt backing down now, at this late stage - and TBH I hope he doesn't. Then the doctors can prove how we have an ignorant a-hole health secretary who doesn't listen to the evidence and refuses to engage with medical professionals except those who have been bought out by the Tories. No doctor wants to strike tomorrow, but Hunt has forced our hand. His ignorance is the only reason we are in this position - and the ball is in his court to stop the strike. Remove imposition and the strike will be called off. Otherwise, Strike, Strike, Strike - and keep striking until he removes imposition. Who cares about 2 days of cancelled appointments when we might not even have a free NHS this time next year if the contract goes ahead.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Gwilym101
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36126740

Have people seen this crap?

"Junior doctors' leaders 'trying to topple the government'"


It's disgusting. I stopped reading half-way through. The BBC seems to be more dedicated to peddling the government's lies and listening to their BS spin and false arguments. Nothing written from the viewpoint of frontline doctors themselves. Impartial my ****.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Yes, fully support the doctors.

If we don't give the doctors a fair deal they will move abroad.


Thank you.More people need to understand their situation.
Reply 25
Avatar for rm715
rm715
15
Original post by JordanL_
Something needs to be done about Jeremy Hunt, but compromising healthcare even more than it already has been isn't the solution.



I agree
Original post by PharaohFromSpace
From the guardian:

Specialists from other hospital departments will be drafted into A&E units on Tuesday and Wednesday to help with the extra pressures caused by junior doctors’ decision to withdraw cover from emergency care areas for the first time in the NHS’s 68-year history.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/24/nhs-hospitals-finalise-plans-to-cope-with-unprecedented-strikes

Opinions? Still support them?


Oh my god, the junior doctors are doing this because the is government trying to exploit them through their contacts in an attempt to take down the NHS brick by the brick. Has any one else noticed this? Now the media's being well-behaved and kicking the **** from the government's side of the street over to the junior doctors. Good old Mancs grauniad !

It's in compassion for the people and themselves that the junior docs have taken these steps - forced backward by the government - because they realise that without a nation health service people will suffer.

Fing conservatives.
Original post by william91919
I'm totally against it. The contract change is to make junior doctors work Saturdays as a normal workday. This makes sense. Working in medicine is obviously not going to be a 9-5 5 day week job, people can have medical accidents at any time, surely these junior doctors realised that when they signed up for it? The quality of NHS treatment is far lower during the weekends than usual - I know a (non-junior) doctor who says at their clinic the treatment for blood clots is administered to 60% of patients within an hour during the week but just 45% within an hour over weekends. People are dying because the NHS isn't effective on weekends. Junior doctors are misleading by pretending that this isn't an issue as they claim they are working on weekends - maybe some are, but the point is it's treated as overtime and not normal working day.

Let's not pretend they're not compensated either - for instance, I'm planning on doing life sciences at university and I can expect to earn £20k/p.a. when I graduate with 4 years * £9k = £36k tuition debt. That means it's 1.8 years worth of salary. Junior doctors study for 6 years (£54k tuition debt) and start at £52k so their debt is worth little over 1 year worth of salary. Yes it's a tough job with long hours, but you signed up for this and you are being compensated/paid well for the valuable work.

The BMA also started this largely by lying in their pay calculator which claimed doctors would earn 30% less as they didn't include on call availability supplement or flexible pay premiums. The contract has since been clarified so that no doctor will earn less than before through a pay protection system.

As for the BBC article, the junior doctors are trying to topple the government - the people voted for the Conservative party who pledged a 7 day NHS in their manifesto, no trade union should stand in the way of democracy. Jeremy Hunt is right to demand a better NHS for the people because that's what we voted for.


Not quite sure where you got £54k or the debt from.

I have a friend who's currently studying to be a doctor and she's forced to work part time, unpaid, in hospitals. This means she doesn't have the time on top of all her coursework to get a part time job so she's in even more debt than just the tuition fee. As well as this, Doctors start at a £22k Salary, Not a £54k.
Once the Junior Doctors have been quelled the Govt will turn their sights on the Consultants' contracts... it won't be pretty.
Original post by william91919

Let's not pretend they're not compensated either - for instance, I'm planning on doing life sciences at university and I can expect to earn £20k/p.a. when I graduate with 4 years * £9k = £36k tuition debt. That means it's 1.8 years worth of salary. Junior doctors study for 6 years (£54k tuition debt) and start at £52k so their debt is worth little over 1 year worth of salary. Yes it's a tough job with long hours, but you signed up for this and you are being compensated/paid well for the valuable work.


What the **** are you harping on about?
Original post by william91919
I'm totally against it. The contract change is to make junior doctors work Saturdays as a normal workday. This makes sense. Working in medicine is obviously not going to be a 9-5 5 day week job, people can have medical accidents at any time, surely these junior doctors realised that when they signed up for it? The quality of NHS treatment is far lower during the weekends than usual - I know a (non-junior) doctor who says at their clinic the treatment for blood clots is administered to 60% of patients within an hour during the week but just 45% within an hour over weekends. People are dying because the NHS isn't effective on weekends. Junior doctors are misleading by pretending that this isn't an issue as they claim they are working on weekends - maybe some are, but the point is it's treated as overtime and not normal working day.

Let's not pretend they're not compensated either - for instance, I'm planning on doing life sciences at university and I can expect to earn £20k/p.a. when I graduate with 4 years * £9k = £36k tuition debt. That means it's 1.8 years worth of salary. Junior doctors study for 6 years (£54k tuition debt) and start at £52k so their debt is worth little over 1 year worth of salary. Yes it's a tough job with long hours, but you signed up for this and you are being compensated/paid well for the valuable work.

The BMA also started this largely by lying in their pay calculator which claimed doctors would earn 30% less as they didn't include on call availability supplement or flexible pay premiums. The contract has since been clarified so that no doctor will earn less than before through a pay protection system.

As for the BBC article, the junior doctors are trying to topple the government - the people voted for the Conservative party who pledged a 7 day NHS in their manifesto, no trade union should stand in the way of democracy. Jeremy Hunt is right to demand a better NHS for the people because that's what we voted for.


Cool story bro!👏🏽:congrats:
R u even living in this world??

Junior Doc's start with an average salary of £22k and they still have to do another 7 years of studies to earn something like £50k.

So you think its ok to live with an average salary of £25k without any social/family life, working 14-16 hour shifs 6 days a week, still learning for you next exams after exams for the next 7 years even after their 6 years in uni?? U think they dont have lives? Are they not humans?

:unimpressed::thumbdown::stupid:
Jeremy Hunt HAS to be stopped. He's ruining people's lives and threatening to destroy the NHS. I support the Junior Doctors completely, and honestly would protest with them if I could. Seriously, the tories have gone too far.
Original post by william91919
I'm totally against it. The contract change is to make junior doctors work Saturdays as a normal workday. This makes sense. Working in medicine is obviously not going to be a 9-5 5 day week job, people can have medical accidents at any time, surely these junior doctors realised that when they signed up for it? The quality of NHS treatment is far lower during the weekends than usual - I know a (non-junior) doctor who says at their clinic the treatment for blood clots is administered to 60% of patients within an hour during the week but just 45% within an hour over weekends. People are dying because the NHS isn't effective on weekends. Junior doctors are misleading by pretending that this isn't an issue as they claim they are working on weekends - maybe some are, but the point is it's treated as overtime and not normal working day.


So why are we arguing about Saturdays and not Sundays?
We do work weekends already - it's not a 'normal working day' because it's not a 9-17, it's generally 08-20 or 09-22. A weekend (let's include Friday because the studies Hunt likes quoting thought it was a weekend day as well as Sat/Sun) can be 39 hours - the same as a 'normal working week' before we even consider that most likely we've worked Mon/Tue/Wed/Thu before starting that 39 hour weekend, to then maybe get Monday off before carrying on with the rest of our week... That's 12 days, which clocks in at about 130 hours, not including the extra bits at the end of each shift because patients don't magically get better in time for us to leave promptly. And it's not just about doctors on weekends. I worked the bank holiday at Easter - we got barely anything done because whilst we had plenty of doctors, we had no secretaries, no ward clerk, minimal radiographers, no ward physio, no ward pharmacist... I could go on. It's similar on weekends. Medicine is a team sport. You don't put a striker on the pitch and tell him he can still win the game without his defenders. Fund the NHS to provide all services across 7 days, don't blame the people who are already there.

Let's not pretend they're not compensated either - for instance, I'm planning on doing life sciences at university and I can expect to earn £20k/p.a. when I graduate with 4 years * £9k = £36k tuition debt. That means it's 1.8 years worth of salary. Junior doctors study for 6 years (£54k tuition debt) and start at £52k so their debt is worth little over 1 year worth of salary. Yes it's a tough job with long hours, but you signed up for this and you are being compensated/paid well for the valuable work.


We start on £23k. I'm a second year doctor on £28k. I'd really love to know where on earth I can get £52k already, but I strongly suspect it's not in the UK...

The BMA also started this largely by lying in their pay calculator which claimed doctors would earn 30% less as they didn't include on call availability supplement or flexible pay premiums. The contract has since been clarified so that no doctor will earn less than before through a pay protection system.


So how about that pay cut that's now 3 years away? And how about those of us who aren't moving through defined training programs who aren't eligible for pay protection? If we weren't being screwed over, why does our pay need 'protecting'?

As for the BBC article, the junior doctors are trying to topple the government - the people voted for the Conservative party who pledged a 7 day NHS in their manifesto, no trade union should stand in the way of democracy. Jeremy Hunt is right to demand a better NHS for the people because that's what we voted for.


Even JH can't clarify what he means by a 7 day NHS. Also, the Tories had something like 35% of the UK vote? The BMA's mandate for strike action was 98% of eligible doctors.
Original post by william91919
I'm totally against it. The contract change is to make junior doctors work Saturdays as a normal workday. This makes sense. Working in medicine is obviously not going to be a 9-5 5 day week job, people can have medical accidents at any time, surely these junior doctors realised that when they signed up for it? The quality of NHS treatment is far lower during the weekends than usual - I know a (non-junior) doctor who says at their clinic the treatment for blood clots is administered to 60% of patients within an hour during the week but just 45% within an hour over weekends. People are dying because the NHS isn't effective on weekends. Junior doctors are misleading by pretending that this isn't an issue as they claim they are working on weekends - maybe some are, but the point is it's treated as overtime and not normal working day.

Let's not pretend they're not compensated either - for instance, I'm planning on doing life sciences at university and I can expect to earn £20k/p.a. when I graduate with 4 years * £9k = £36k tuition debt. That means it's 1.8 years worth of salary. Junior doctors study for 6 years (£54k tuition debt) and start at £52k so their debt is worth little over 1 year worth of salary. Yes it's a tough job with long hours, but you signed up for this and you are being compensated/paid well for the valuable work.

The BMA also started this largely by lying in their pay calculator which claimed doctors would earn 30% less as they didn't include on call availability supplement or flexible pay premiums. The contract has since been clarified so that no doctor will earn less than before through a pay protection system.

As for the BBC article, the junior doctors are trying to topple the government - the people voted for the Conservative party who pledged a 7 day NHS in their manifesto, no trade union should stand in the way of democracy. Jeremy Hunt is right to demand a better NHS for the people because that's what we voted for.


Dude, you need to go away and learn what you are talking about before posting on something. £52K?! Holy **** that's hilarious.

Quick Reply

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you