Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Ok thanks. But do you think that there are many people who would choose the big4 over IB or is it just people who got rejected from IB that go into big4 audit (from the top universities)? Because on LinkedIn if I search up LSE students it seems like they all work in banking or some sort of civil service/UN type work.
    Depends on their priorities and what they want their careers to shape into. I don't imagine the majority of cross offer holders to Big4 Audit vis-a-vis IB would take the B4 Audit gig, but there certainly would be a proportion who would prefer a big4 career and what it leads to.

    You haven't searched LinkedIn well enough, then. Sure, LSE's most popular sector is IB, but not everyone will end up with an IB offer nor will everyone be gunning for it.

    It's still nothing to fret over. Be it tech, consulting, finance, law, accounting, NGOs, politics etc you'll be able to forge a great career in any of them if you have the right attitude and skillset. People generally get burnt quite badly if they play the keeping up with the Joneses game - it's your career not anyone else's.
    Offline

    2
    (Original post by CHEETS)
    Having done a maths/economics degree somewhere really prestigious like LSE, Warwick or Cambridge and subsequently having gotten into IB, yes, my friends who 'ended up' up in Big 4 were seen as the 'failures'.

    5 years on, all the guys at big 4 have finished their exams, had a promotion and massive pay rise, are working on important client accounts, enjoying their work life balance and the fact that they have a prestigious, well paying job.

    Many of us who went into banking have resigned, given up, been fired, haven't slept for 5 years, hate our bosses and lives, are single, look 10 years older than we should, don't get paid that much anyway due to massive changes in regulation and continued pressure on profits and live in constant fear of being let go of every day.

    What I'm saying is, don't give a **** about what other people think.

    You can get £100000 as a partner at a big 4 firm.
    It does concern me that nobody ever says "**** yeah, I loved it"

    Know anybody who actually likes their job?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    whats an audit
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    whats an audit
    Google is your friend.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Google is your friend.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Sorry, im boycotting Google until they pay up all the corporation tax they owe
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gr8wizard10)
    could you expand on what this means to you?

    i recently had a chat with my line manager and he mentioned something along these lines in terms of an analysts role.
    Sorry for answering a question with a question, but before I can answer properly I need to ask you: your line manager mentioned that if you ponder and overthinking while working you're going to sabotage yourself?
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    Sorry, im boycotting Google until they pay up all the corporation tax they owe
    How idealistic of you..

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    How idealistic of you..

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Thanks, I was a regular user of Google so I hop they pay up since they have lost a very valued user
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pucizza)
    Sorry for answering a question with a question, but before I can answer properly I need to ask you: your line manager mentioned that if you ponder and overthinking while working you're going to sabotage yourself?
    no he said it's useful to think about the wider aspect of the deals etc.. and question that.. but as an analyst its your job to get what's being asked of you done.. "at a juniour level, you're the monkey" as has been put.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BizzStrut)
    It does concern me that nobody ever says "**** yeah, I loved it"

    Know anybody who actually likes their job?
    Banking - about 1 in 10 people I know genuinely love it.

    Audit - after the initial few years which are **** (same for any graduate career though, and still far less **** than life as a junior banker), I think about 90-95% of my qualified friends genuinely enjoy their jobs and have no intention of moving on.

    That said, I would've hated audit, so I guess fewer people go into audit go in just to try it. The ones who do it know they will probably like it. Whereas in banking, lots of people go in for he money, fully knowing they will hate it, so much higher turnover.
    Offline

    2
    (Original post by CHEETS)
    Banking - about 1 in 10 people I know genuinely love it.

    Audit - after the initial few years which are **** (same for any graduate career though, and still far less **** than life as a junior banker), I think about 90-95% of my qualified friends genuinely enjoy their jobs and have no intention of moving on.

    That said, I would've hated audit, so I guess fewer people go into audit go in just to try it. The ones who do it know they will probably like it. Whereas in banking, lots of people go in for he money, fully knowing they will hate it, so much higher turnover.
    1/10 seems quite high, actually. What's particularly interesting is 1/20 of bankers, according to some studies, are supposed to be psychopathic (compared to 1/00 of general population). Maybe a majority make up those 1/3 of senior bankers supposedly meet the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder which is less surprising.

    So what are you up to now? Would you prefer to PM? You're the first (post?)-analyst I've spoken to so I hope these questions don't come across as too invasive-- just curious!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BizzStrut)
    1/10 seems quite high, actually. What's particularly interesting is 1/20 of bankers, according to some studies, are supposed to be psychopathic (compared to 1/00 of general population). Maybe a majority make up those 1/3 of senior bankers supposedly meet the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder which is less surprising.

    So what are you up to now? Would you prefer to PM? You're the first (post?)-analyst I've spoken to so I hope these questions don't come across as too invasive-- just curious!
    The psychopath statistic is almost certainly true. Many of the people who did well there were very likely high-performing psychopaths. They thrive on that kind of an environment. The NPD doesn't surprise me either.

    I'm doing an masters in Econ now (very common path for disillusioned banking grads). Hope to be a public sector/ development economist one day.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CHEETS)
    Having done a maths/economics degree somewhere really prestigious like LSE, Warwick or Cambridge and subsequently having gotten into IB, yes, my friends who 'ended up' up in Big 4 were seen as the 'failures'.

    5 years on, all the guys at big 4 have finished their exams, had a promotion and massive pay rise, are working on important client accounts, enjoying their work life balance and the fact that they have a prestigious, well paying job.

    Many of us who went into banking have resigned, given up, been fired, haven't slept for 5 years, hate our bosses and lives, are single, look 10 years older than we should, don't get paid that much anyway due to massive changes in regulation and continued pressure on profits and live in constant fear of being let go of every day.

    What I'm saying is, don't give a **** about what other people think.

    You can get £100000 as a partner at a big 4 firm.
    Big4 Partner salaries are about £750k on average.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gr8wizard10)
    no he said it's useful to think about the wider aspect of the deals etc.. and question that.. but as an analyst its your job to get what's being asked of you done.. "at a juniour level, you're the monkey" as has been put.
    Yes indeed. Obviously it changes from firm to firm, but the predominant view in large corporate firms is that until you're junior, your opinion is best kept to yourself.

    This, at least, for broader thoughts. You're still expected to be critical at the micro level, ie: "how can I possibly fulfil my task in the most timely and resource-efficient manner with the best possible output?". That's a question they demand you ask yourself most of the time. But if you have broader thoughts about the client, the account, the project... you'll face stiff resistance.

    There is certainly some ageism, but a lot of the time junior people actually lack both the experience and the bigger picture to really assess the broader implications of what they're doing. This is not necessarily understandable though. Yes, we're the monkeys and if we spend time on the a deal's bigger questions we won't get the grunt work done, but I've found myself telling my line managers more often than I liked that if I'm not present at key meetings and I don't know what's happening beyond the minute tasks I'm asked to carry out day by day, it'll be difficult for me to contribute to my best and feel invested with the work.
    Usually on the surface they recognise the logic of what I'm saying, but it then collides with the reality that if they need that spreadsheet or the presentation ready by 7:30am tomorrow, they can't take us to meetings and give us updates and ask for our opinions as much as they should.

    And in even stricter terms, when you wonder too much about the nature of that presentation or those figures, you'll be a responsible analyst but it's likely that due to time constraints you'll mess up. Those figures have already been approved by managers or even MDs and what you're asked is to crunch/frame/interpet/lay them out, no more no less.

    One of my line managers, a really tough pragmatic doer who nonetheless understood the need that juniors learn, used to tell us "Be hungry with your eyes", which was his way of saying that while we're carrying out our tasks, we should learn as much as possible by observing the seniors, because they don't have the time to explain much but we can pick up a lot if we observe them. It sounds unfeasible maybe, but I find that in a corporate environment observing rather than asking is the best way to learn.
    Offline

    2
    (Original post by CHEETS)
    The psychopath statistic is almost certainly true. Many of the people who did well there were very likely high-performing psychopaths. They thrive on that kind of an environment. The NPD doesn't surprise me either.

    I'm doing an masters in Econ now (very common path for disillusioned banking grads). Hope to be a public sector/ development economist one day.
    The office politics must be intense!

    That sounds like a nice change. And a flexible choice - academia, policy, consulting, finance, non-profits, think tanks.. etc.

    I appreciate you time
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BizzStrut)
    1/10 seems quite high, actually. What's particularly interesting is 1/20 of bankers, according to some studies, are supposed to be psychopathic (compared to 1/00 of general population). Maybe a majority make up those 1/3 of senior bankers supposedly meet the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder which is less surprising.

    So what are you up to now? Would you prefer to
    PM? You're the first (post?)-analyst I've spoken to so I hope these questions don't come across as too invasive-- just curious!
    Any source for those claims? I've read another study that didn't find any greater incidence of psychopaths among top managers than among the broader population. Moreover, another study found that among top managers there's an even greater proportion of people who tend to shy away from direct confrontation compared to the broader population,

    Intuitively I'd go with what a higher percentage of psychos in banking, but it seems like it's not the case.
    Offline

    2
    (Original post by Pucizza)
    Any source for those claims? I've read another study that didn't find any greater incidence of psychopaths among top managers than among the broader population. Moreover, another study found that among top managers there's an even greater proportion of people who tend to shy away from direct confrontation compared to the broader population,

    Intuitively I'd go with what a higher percentage of psychos in banking, but it seems like it's not the case.
    Note: I said 1/20 are supposed to be psychopathic in finance not in managerial roles. Pyramid implies most will be jr levels. It's 1/3 NPD (and a big proportion of OCPD traits) in senior management. I'll have a dig for them when I get back on my PC later tonight.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BizzStrut)
    Note: I said 1/20 are supposed to be psychopathic in banking not in managerial roles. Pyramid implies most will be jr levels. It's 1/3 NPD (and a big proportion of OCPD traits) in senior management. I'll have a dig for them when I get back on my PC later tonight.
    Good segmentation, thanks for the clarifications!

    Regarding being a psychopath, again intuitively yes it fits being a banker: superficial charm, competitiveness, high animal spirits.

    But even more, narcissism. That's nearly ever-present in any banking environment that's not a branch, basically.
    • TSR Support Team
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Anon07079191)
    Big4 Partner salaries are about £750k on average.
    Across the whole firm..

    People who have been partners for 15+ years will be on close to or a lot more than a mil. New partners will be on more like £200k.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Across the whole firm..

    People who have partners for 15+ years will be on close to or a lot more than a mil. New partners will be on more like £200k.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Indeed.... I'm very familiar with how averages work! 😀
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

Articles:

Guide to investment bankingGuide to consultancy

Featured recruiter profiles:

Deutsche Bank logo

Deutsche Bank is recruiting

"Thrive in an international banking environment"

Quick link:

Unanswered investment banking and consultancy threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.