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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    A 'phase' of asexuality is something I've only really observed in 12-15 year olds who use the term when the reality is puberty hasn't hit them like a bus yet so they end up changing their mind later on.
    Understandable, I'm yet to come across young teenagers who do this
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    I don't see hundreds of thousands of years of normal human behavior and our very nature being overturned by a relatively recent social fad.

    Homosexual tendancies and a degree of gender change do exist, but heterosexuality and the gender binary have always generally been the norm with Homo sapiens, and I'm pretty sure they always will be. This runs deeper than our sometimes arbitrary politics and social beliefs.
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    (Original post by J_89)
    Umm, sorry but that's just blatantly not true.

    In the natural world, we are largely heterosexual, at least according to the large population of the planet in every species that has a male and a female.

    SNIP... (sorry) .
    If you read this link, our closest living wild relative (Bonobos) is totally bi-sexual (in the sense of having sex with everyone).

    https://psmag.com/bonobos-have-lots-...5a3#.t3a8fvftk
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    I understand gender neutral but where did bisexual come from? You do realize bisexuals represent 2% of the pop, right? They're more rare than gays and lesbians put together. I know its 2016 and next year will be 2017 but I promise you people are not going to start swinging from both trees to "get with the times" in the future.

    To be honest, it is no surprise that sometimes people will identify as bi because its cool to be gay now. No joke. Youtubers stars and celebrities will go on and on how gay/bi they are to be more interesting when in reality they only date the opposite sex. Being gay, trans, bi, or "non-binary" is so more mysterious and unique than being a regular heterosexual.

    Reminds me of the singer Halsey. She will go on and on and on about how bi and gay she is yet the only sex she dates is male. I'm not saying bi people don't exist but to assume everyone is bi because a couple people on the internet are? Not very accurate.
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    (Original post by SmileyVibe)
    I understand gender neutral but where did bisexual come from? You do realize bisexuals represent 2% of the pop, right? .
    Its not the label - labels are childish. you have not really read the thread.

    You do this test (academic - forgotten what its called) - it gives you a score. No one gets 0% or 100% so everyone is bi-sexual to some extent.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Its not the label - labels are childish. you have not really read the thread.

    You do this test (academic - forgotten what its called) - it gives you a score. No one gets 0% or 100% so everyone is bi-sexual to some extent.
    I don't really think everyone is bisexual. Every person is guilty of thinking someone of the same sex is attractive but it doesn't mean they're sexually attracted to them. Bisexuality is sexual attraction to the both sexes. I have been reading the thread. Most of the comments are about the poll being bullcrap, lol.

    I guess i didn't give my answer to the question. And its no. Bisexuals do represent a tiny percentage of society. Isn't gay a label as well?
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    (Original post by SmileyVibe)
    I don't really think everyone is bisexual. Every person is guilty of thinking someone of the same sex is attractive but it doesn't mean they're sexually attracted to them. Bisexuality is sexual attraction to the both sexes. I have been reading the thread. Most of the comments are about the poll being bullcrap, lol.
    I would hate to think I was 100% percent the prisoner of my biology.
    I love the idea that I could love a man if I so put my mind to it.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    I would hate to think I was 100% percent the prisoner of my biology.
    I love the idea that I could love a man if I so put my mind to it.
    Is that argument gays can be straight as well?

    No one is 100% prisoner of biology. Biology play a role but the environment impacts the attraction too.
    I think with enough brainwashing technique and mental reinforcement, its possible to turn a straight gay.
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    One word. Fad.

    It's easy to identify as a bisexual-genderfluid-transwhatever when you are young and attractive. Let's see how many continue to do so when they are fat, balding and middle aged.
    No it is not.
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    I do not believe that we are heading for a gender neutral, bisexual future. If we do, I doubt it will be genuine. Far too many are jumping on the LGBT rights bandwagon without understanding what it really means and why it exists. This leads to a mass of disrespect for the movement. The exact same thing has happened with feminism, if you want another example. And this is coming from an avid gay rights activist.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Its not the label - labels are childish. you have not really read the thread.

    You do this test (academic - forgotten what its called) - it gives you a score. No one gets 0% or 100% so everyone is bi-sexual to some extent.

    Are you talking about the Kinsey scale or?
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    You cant just wake up one day and decide you want to be the opposite gender. I am all for transgenders, but this gender fluidity thing is beyond stupid.
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    I don't see how untraditional sexualities and genders hurt anyone. I don't think they need to change.

    At this point most people making your sort of argument seem to make wishy-washy statements about "degeneracy" - I hope you won't, but I'll let you make your own justification.
    Find some comfort in the fact I think the subject of whether or not something is "Degenerate" is a waste of time. Deviant sexualites have existed for a long time, and to some extent I believe that it is natural, although not to the extent that most liberals consider natural. homosexuality is not an act I take prejudice against, however I believe that promotion of it as something to aspire to to be societal suicide, as intolerant or bigoted that may come across for a society to continue existing it requires heterosexual intercourse to happen to produce offspring, this is why all forms of religion have verses along the lines of "Go forth and multiply."

    The main cause of harm we as a generation are facing, in my eyes at least, is this psuedoscientific belief that gender is a social construct. Children are told they can be genderfluid at young ages and in some cases are offered hormone prescriptions and even surgery to make them seem like the gender they wish to be. This all stems from one of two Femisist assertions that "There is no such thing as a female brain" or "Transgender people are born with the wrong brain." The first assertion is complete nonsense, neurosciences have proven that Male brains are about 10% larger and have a significant higher percentage of grey matter whereas female brains have more white matter.

    Source, just in case I am accused of being transphobic or whatever: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/19/10/4065.full (This is one of many)

    The second argument ("Transgender people are born with the wrong brain.") while true in some cases does not happen anywhere near as frequently as the trans lobby makes out, and the real cause of Transexualism is a condition known as gender disphoria. It is a Mental Illness and should be treated as such. Giving people gender corrective surgery has done nothing but cause harm.

    A few links that provide some reading on this matter:
    http://waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/20...ain-traum.html
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

    The basic premise of this being that suicide rates increase significantly after gender corrective surgery.


    I could go on, but I'm already waffling. To clarify this post is my opinion, which I base after doing my own research. I thoroughly encourage people to do the same and come up with their own conclusions on the matter, I simply wish to offer my side of the argument for any interested.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Are you talking about the Kinsey scale or?
    possibly - sounds familiar - thanks
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    (Original post by Xelfrost)
    Find some comfort in the fact I think the subject of whether or not something is "Degenerate" is a waste of time. Deviant sexualites have existed for a long time, and to some extent I believe that it is natural, although not to the extent that most liberals consider natural. homosexuality is not an act I take prejudice against, however I believe that promotion of it as something to aspire to to be societal suicide, as intolerant or bigoted that may come across for a society to continue existing it requires heterosexual intercourse to happen to produce offspring, this is why all forms of religion have verses along the lines of "Go forth and multiply."

    The main cause of harm we as a generation are facing, in my eyes at least, is this psuedoscientific belief that gender is a social construct. Children are told they can be genderfluid at young ages and in some cases are offered hormone prescriptions and even surgery to make them seem like the gender they wish to be. This all stems from one of two Femisist assertions that "There is no such thing as a female brain" or "Transgender people are born with the wrong brain." The first assertion is complete nonsense, neurosciences have proven that Male brains are about 10% larger and have a significant higher percentage of grey matter whereas female brains have more white matter.
    I don't understand how you are coming to these conclusions. The whole 'society needs to exist as such heterosexual intercourse is necessary' argument is so irrelevant for two key reasons:

    1. The world is vastly overpopulated - '4-6%' of the population being queer is not going to change that. Gays men/women also use their sperm/eggs to procreate through surrogates and so on. This argument is invalid entirely.

    2. People are still reproducing. I don't understand the need for this anxiety? The vast majority of the world engages in heterosexual sex and reproduces. It's not some crisis if gays become accepted and "normalised" (lmfao). Have you not learnt from recent history? Oh and by the way, homosexuality has always been there. It was accepted in mainstream society in the Ancient Greeks and look, nothing happened, we've evolved, we're still here. The fear and anxiety surrounding reproduction is entirely irrational.

    Oh and just as a slight side-note, using 'liberals' does not make you sound politically in-tune so give up. Our prime minister is a conservative and he put forward gay marriage - he is not a liberal. And without liberalist approaches, you wouldn't enjoy many of the freedoms you do today. We all moan far too much about absolutely everything.
    Homosexuality is not an act. It is a predisposition. Just like all other legitimate sexual orientations. Just because you say "I'm not prejudiced", does not mean you can say subtly prejudiced things and it validates them - no. And using religion is a very unstable thing to do and don't just do it because it suits your argument. Religion says an awful lot of things that have been completely removed from modern secular society and because it doesn't suit your debate, you ignore it. Accept the reality of these issues.

    Gender is, as psychologically supported, a social construct and calling it society's biggest threat is laughable. Children are brought up wearing things that ascribe to their gender, boys playing with cars and girls with dolls or pony toys because of gender social constructs. I suggest you read H. Berten's Literary Theory: The Basics. He is a critic who explains feminism and gender amazingly well, in a way that will help you to understand the truth behind these conventions. It is very easy to see that they are constructs. We made them, just as we made religion. Saying they are not constructs is absolutely ridiculous. Biology and science did not pre-determine the clothes we wear or the roles we take, or the toys you play with as a child and the colours you love. There is a role of biology in constructs, I stress a role, but it is not the overwhelming feature. Sociology and psychology are much more prominent.

    Secondly, you are mixing up gender fluidity with transgenderism. In order to be given hormone treatment, you usually have to be about 16 years of age as a minimum. I do not get the impression, at all, that you actually understand what you're talking about here. I really don't. You are mixing up very different terms and concluding that they are the same. They are not. In order to begin the transitioning process as a trans-man or trans-woman, you have to go through very rigorous psychological assessments and a lot of different precautions are taken. You can't just do it. You're pretending that it's flippantly done and easy. It is not. Transsexuality hasn't just come out of thin air and it hasn't just come out of socio-political movements either. It has been something which has existed underneath a web of interior complications. All 'liberals' have done, if you like, is made society face them and accept them as real because they are. It never ceases to amaze me how people refer to things like this as though they're not real, and that it's people trying to seek attention and be complicated. You could not be further from the truth. These issues can absolutely destroy people's lives. As an openly gay man, I can safely say that this society, regardless of how progressive it is, has contributed to a deterioration in my mental health and the mental health states of multiple LGBTQIA people around the globe. People are murdered for being LGBTQIA; people cannot go to certain countries; people cannot have a straight forward life because everything is a battle. Nobody would want this, I can tell you that for free. I understand that you were not arguing for it all being a choice but the way you so flippantly refer to it like its a dangerous 'belief' leads me to feel deeply troubled. I just cannot fathom why you have such a deluded understanding of something so blatant and the fact you seem too set in your ways to accept a modicum of education makes you just as bad as those you feel you have a reason to complain about.

    Thirdly, feminism and sexual orientation, gender and transsexual issues are separate. Indeed, feminism, sex and gender are instinctively paired but they have differences. For example, the leader of the current wave of feminism is Germaine Greer, who has spoken out against transsexuality. You are misled in your assertions. There is no direct difference between the male and female brain as far as I am aware, in relation to the issues you are discussing. People do not argue that transgender people are born with the wrong 'brain'. Do you realise how absurd your claims are? I feel this stems largely from your irrational assumption that gender does not exist. It does and it is not the same as sex if it does.

    I think you need to step back and seriously think about these things. You sound very ignorant and bigoted and that isn't me calling you a bigot, its me saying that is how you come across. So step back and think these things through. Your statements are full of absolute nonsense, and then you have the audacity to say the opposing arguments are when they make significantly more rational sense.
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    (Original post by Xelfrost)
    Source, just in case I am accused of being transphobic or whatever: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/19/10/4065.full (This is one of many)

    The second argument ("Transgender people are born with the wrong brain." while true in some cases does not happen anywhere near as frequently as the trans lobby makes out, and the real cause of Transexualism is a condition known as gender disphoria. It is a Mental Illness and should be treated as such. Giving people gender corrective surgery has done nothing but cause harm.

    A few links that provide some reading on this matter:
    http://waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/20...ain-traum.html
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

    The basic premise of this being that suicide rates increase significantly after gender corrective surgery.


    I could go on, but I'm already waffling. To clarify this post is my opinion, which I base after doing my own research. I thoroughly encourage people to do the same and come up with their own conclusions on the matter, I simply wish to offer my side of the argument for any interested.
    I apologise, the quoted piece cut off this half of the post so I'll address it separately now.

    First of all, your source is dated 1999. We are over 15 years on from that point. New studies have been done. Produce modern examples; science progresses.

    Secondly, that argument isn't even an argument given and if it is, I have never heard it used once in all of my time being involved in these issues and LGBTQIA/feminism/gender related activism... not once. As such, I doubt its credibility and authenticity as something genuinely used.

    I find real fault with you using this ridiculous phrases like the 'trans lobby' I mean, what are you trying to say? Can you just be plain instead of trying to sound pompous, academic, and politically aligned? Again, you don't understand a basic and fundamental difference between transsexuality and gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a condition whereby you feel that your sex is different to the sex you were assigned to at birth and it causes you significant distress and unhappiness; it has a negative impact on your life. That ending clause is so unbelievably important because that is what makes it separate from transsexuality. Transsexuality in itself does not inherently cause distress and unhappiness. They are separate. Characteristics of mental disorders have been applied to the situation and every medical institution and psychological association in authority in this country renders it anything but a mental disorder. You are wrong. Professionals understand their field better than you, somebody who has done a google search and read the news or a book or two about the issue, somebody who, more precisely, uses sources from years and years ago. Providing people with surgery allows them to live the life they wish to pursue. Sex-reassignment can be viewed as a cure to the 'disorder' if you want to class it as that (we'll play in hypotheticals now); I would argue that bigoted and violent prejudiced against the LGBTQIA community is the only thing that does any damage here... the only thing. People make their own decisions about sex-reassignment and it is a long and complicated process. It isn't doing them harm and certainly not as massively as you seem to purport.

    I suggest you look at sources such as these:
    Some of these are in the past few years. However, they are very official and I feel have much more behind them than the sources you have given me. I don't trust the statistics given and the claims made. Of course sometimes sex changes end up not being what the person wants once its done. However, this is individual circumstances. It doesn't render the practice and result completely useless and harmful in every single case and in fact, the majority of people it is relevant to do not see it in the light you put forward.

    As with suicide rates - don't pretend that you even for a moment care about those. Attitudes like yours to homosexuality and indeed, transsexuality, are root cause of increased negativity and by extension, the things which lead to suicide for LGBTQIA people. Take it from somebody who has experienced it first hand. I would also question whether or not it is the surgery that leads to suicide or whether it is the attitudes of others in relation to it, that caused the person to feel so low and take their own life. It is not as black and white as you originally asserted.

    I respect your opinion but disagree unreservedly and do not feel like you have the correct material to support your views. However, they are yours and you can keep them.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I don't understand how you are coming to these conclusions. The whole 'society needs to exist as such heterosexual intercourse is necessary' argument is so irrelevant for two key reasons:

    1. The world is vastly overpopulated - '4-6%' of the population being queer is not going to change that. Gays men/women also use their sperm/eggs to procreate through surrogates and so on. This argument is invalid entirely.

    2. People are still reproducing. I don't understand the need for this anxiety? The vast majority of the world engages in heterosexual sex and reproduces. It's not some crisis if gays become accepted and "normalised" (lmfao). Have you not learnt from recent history? Oh and by the way, homosexuality has always been there. It was accepted in mainstream society in the Ancient Greeks and look, nothing happened, we've evolved, we're still here. The fear and anxiety surrounding reproduction is entirely irrational.

    Oh and just as a slight side-note, using 'liberals' does not make you sound politically in-tune so give up. Our prime minister is a conservative and he put forward gay marriage - he is not a liberal. And without liberalist approaches, you wouldn't enjoy many of the freedoms you do today. We all moan far too much about absolutely everything.
    Homosexuality is not an act. It is a predisposition. Just like all other legitimate sexual orientations. Just because you say "I'm not prejudiced", does not mean you can say subtly prejudiced things and it validates them - no. And using religion is a very unstable thing to do and don't just do it because it suits your argument. Religion says an awful lot of things that have been completely removed from modern secular society and because it doesn't suit your debate, you ignore it. Accept the reality of these issues.

    Gender is, as psychologically supported, a social construct and calling it society's biggest threat is laughable. Children are brought up wearing things that ascribe to their gender, boys playing with cars and girls with dolls or pony toys because of gender social constructs. I suggest you read H. Berten's Literary Theory: The Basics. He is a critic who explains feminism and gender amazingly well, in a way that will help you to understand the truth behind these conventions. It is very easy to see that they are constructs. We made them, just as we made religion. Saying they are not constructs is absolutely ridiculous. Biology and science did not pre-determine the clothes we wear or the roles we take, or the toys you play with as a child and the colours you love. There is a role of biology in constructs, I stress a role, but it is not the overwhelming feature. Sociology and psychology are much more prominent.

    Secondly, you are mixing up gender fluidity with transgenderism. In order to be given hormone treatment, you usually have to be about 16 years of age as a minimum. I do not get the impression, at all, that you actually understand what you're talking about here. I really don't. You are mixing up very different terms and concluding that they are the same. They are not. In order to begin the transitioning process as a trans-man or trans-woman, you have to go through very rigorous psychological assessments and a lot of different precautions are taken. You can't just do it. You're pretending that it's flippantly done and easy. It is not. Transsexuality hasn't just come out of thin air and it hasn't just come out of socio-political movements either. It has been something which has existed underneath a web of interior complications. All 'liberals' have done, if you like, is made society face them and accept them as real because they are. It never ceases to amaze me how people refer to things like this as though they're not real, and that it's people trying to seek attention and be complicated. You could not be further from the truth. These issues can absolutely destroy people's lives. As an openly gay man, I can safely say that this society, regardless of how progressive it is, has contributed to a deterioration in my mental health and the mental health states of multiple LGBTQIA people around the globe. People are murdered for being LGBTQIA; people cannot go to certain countries; people cannot have a straight forward life because everything is a battle. Nobody would want this, I can tell you that for free. I understand that you were not arguing for it all being a choice but the way you so flippantly refer to it like its a dangerous 'belief' leads me to feel deeply troubled. I just cannot fathom why you have such a deluded understanding of something so blatant and the fact you seem too set in your ways to accept a modicum of education makes you just as bad as those you feel you have a reason to complain about.

    Thirdly, feminism and sexual orientation, gender and transsexual issues are separate. Indeed, feminism, sex and gender are instinctively paired but they have differences. For example, the leader of the current wave of feminism is Germaine Greer, who has spoken out against transsexuality. You are misled in your assertions. There is no direct difference between the male and female brain as far as I am aware, in relation to the issues you are discussing. People do not argue that transgender people are born with the wrong 'brain'. Do you realise how absurd your claims are? I feel this stems largely from your irrational assumption that gender does not exist. It does and it is not the same as sex if it does.

    I think you need to step back and seriously think about these things. You sound very ignorant and bigoted and that isn't me calling you a bigot, its me saying that is how you come across. So step back and think these things through. Your statements are full of absolute nonsense, and then you have the audacity to say the opposing arguments are when they make significantly more rational sense.
    I agree with you on a lot of things you said but to say gender is a social construct is biological and scientifically wrong there is a strong biological basis for gender i don't say there isn't a sociological basis as well but this new trend to try to make everything gender neutral or gender fluid can't be healthy for society as a whole.

    And I'm not talking about transgender people here because they get my full support and sympathy but this whole push from feminism to make gender out to be a total social construct is unhealthy, and you have to agree that there seems to be a trend in young people to claim to be gender fluid or trans or whatever and the liberal media pushes that trend forward.

    A couple of weeks ago a government study even asked children to choose their identity between 25 genders.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ender--7262690
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    1. The world is vastly overpopulated - '4-6%' of the population being queer is not going to change that. Gays men/women also use their sperm/eggs to procreate through surrogates and so on. This argument is invalid entirely.
    This is correct, the world is overpopulated... However the birthrate in pretty much every western country is below "Replacement level." I made a point in my post about how my issue isn't even with gay people and made no points about them being an issue anyway so I have no clue why you're being up in arms over that.

    Source for replacement level claim just cause: https://www.pop.org/content/fertilit...western-europe (There's many more like this, you can google the rest)

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    2. People are still reproducing. I don't understand the need for this anxiety? The vast majority of the world engages in heterosexual sex and reproduces. It's not some crisis if gays become accepted and "normalised" (lmfao). Have you not learnt from recent history? Oh and by the way, homosexuality has always been there. It was accepted in mainstream society in the Ancient Greeks and look, nothing happened, we've evolved, we're still here. The fear and anxiety surrounding reproduction is entirely irrational.
    You quote me expressing concern about gays being "Normalised" when I didn't even say that (lmfao as you say)... So I don't really know what you want me to say here.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Oh and just as a slight side-note, using 'liberals' does not make you sound politically in-tune so give up.
    I simply said that Liberals wouldn't agree with my statement, your post confirms this, so thanks.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Our prime minister is a conservative and he put forward gay marriage - he is not a liberal. And without liberalist approaches, you wouldn't enjoy many of the freedoms you do today. We all moan far too much about absolutely everything.
    Being in the conservative party =/= being a conservative, just ask UKIP

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Homosexuality is not an act. It is a predisposition. Just like all other legitimate sexual orientations. Just because you say "I'm not prejudiced", does not mean you can say subtly prejudiced things and it validates them - no.
    I agree, which is why I didn't talk about homosexuals.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    And using religion is a very unstable thing to do and don't just do it because it suits your argument. Religion says an awful lot of things that have been completely removed from modern secular society and because it doesn't suit your debate, you ignore it. Accept the reality of these issues.
    Once again, I didn't say that. I said the reason religion promotes heterosexuality is due to the fact they want high birth rates, despite being religious I'm not defending it here, nor using it as a justification.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Gender is, as psychologically supported, a social construct
    Explain male/female gender roles being present, and on top of that, virtually identical in virtually every species of animal in the planet.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Children are brought up wearing things that ascribe to their gender, boys playing with cars and girls with dolls or pony toys because of gender social constructs. I suggest you read H. Berten's Literary Theory: The Basics. He is a critic who explains feminism and gender amazingly well, in a way that will help you to understand the truth behind these conventions. It is very easy to see that they are constructs. We made them, just as we made religion.
    Read above point

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Saying they are not constructs is absolutely ridiculous. Biology and science did not pre-determine the clothes we wear or the roles we take, or the toys you play with as a child and the colours you love.
    Gross oversimplification

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Secondly, you are mixing up gender fluidity with transgenderism. In order to be given hormone treatment, you usually have to be about 16 years of age as a minimum. I do not get the impression, at all, that you actually understand what you're talking about here. I really don't. You are mixing up very different terms and concluding that they are the same. They are not. In order to begin the transitioning process as a trans-man or trans-woman, you have to go through very rigorous psychological assessments and a lot of different precautions are taken. You can't just do it. You're pretending that it's flippantly done and easy. It is not. Transsexuality hasn't just come out of thin air and it hasn't just come out of socio-political movements either. It has been something which has existed underneath a web of interior complications. All 'liberals' have done, if you like, is made society face them and accept them as real because they are. It never ceases to amaze me how people refer to things like this as though they're not real, and that it's people trying to seek attention and be complicated. You could not be further from the truth. These issues can absolutely destroy people's lives. As an openly gay man, I can safely say that this society, regardless of how progressive it is, has contributed to a deterioration in my mental health and the mental health states of multiple LGBTQIA people around the globe. People are murdered for being LGBTQIA; people cannot go to certain countries; people cannot have a straight forward life because everything is a battle. Nobody would want this, I can tell you that for free. I understand that you were not arguing for it all being a choice but the way you so flippantly refer to it like its a dangerous 'belief' leads me to feel deeply troubled. I just cannot fathom why you have such a deluded understanding of something so blatant and the fact you seem too set in your ways to accept a modicum of education makes you just as bad as those you feel you have a reason to complain about.
    Facts don't care about your feelings, and the facts say that, for the most part at least, transgender people kill themselves in increased numbers by a significant amount when undergoing surgery. Therefore I do not condone it as a method of treatment. That is all I said on the matter and it is all I will say on the matter as the only thing I am trying to do here is to stop people killing themselves.


    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Thirdly, feminism and sexual orientation, gender and transsexual issues are separate. Indeed, feminism, sex and gender are instinctively paired but they have differences. For example, the leader of the current wave of feminism is Germaine Greer, who has spoken out against transsexuality.
    I wasn't aware she was the "Leader of Feminism," Like most people I assumed it splits into many different groups (Third wave, Fourth Wave, Intersectional, Radical, et-al)

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    You are misled in your assertions. There is no direct difference between the male and female brain as far as I am aware, in relation to the issues you are discussing.
    You are wrong. Read my sources.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    People do not argue that transgender people are born with the wrong 'brain'. Do you realise how absurd your claims are? I feel this stems largely from your irrational assumption that gender does not exist. It does and it is not the same as sex if it does.
    Being born with the wrong brain is the main argument that the Trans lobby uses. Although they word it as being born in the wrong body.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I think you need to step back and seriously think about these things. You sound very ignorant and bigoted and that isn't me calling you a bigot, its me saying that is how you come across.
    No, that is literally you calling me a bigot.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    So step back and think these things through. Your statements are full of absolute nonsense, and then you have the audacity to say the opposing arguments are when they make significantly more rational sense.
    I provided sources for my claims, most of which were scientific papers. You on the other hand have misquoted what I've said and tried to put across a narrative that I hate the homosexual community. I am fully open to debate on what I believe in but at least do me the courtesy of arguing my points as opposed to making up stuff. It is clear to me that you, as a member of the LGBT community care about these issues. And believe me I am glad for you that you have something you care about. However this doesn't mean I have to agree with you. Likewise I do not expect you to agree with me on this topic. I am a social conservative and you a clearly socially liberal and it is to be expected that we will not agree. I am simply putting my views on the issue into an open discussion on our opinions on the matter.
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    (Original post by annaew)
    I agree with you on a lot of things you said but to say gender is a social construct is biological and scientifically wrong there is a strong biological basis for gender i don't say there isn't a sociological basis as well but this new trend to try to make everything gender neutral or gender fluid can't be healthy for society as a whole.

    And I'm not talking about transgender people here because they get my full support and sympathy but this whole push from feminism to make gender out to be a total social construct is unhealthy, and you have to agree that there seems to be a trend in young people to claim to be gender fluid or trans or whatever and the liberal media pushes that trend forward.

    A couple of weeks ago a government study even asked children to choose their identity between 25 genders.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ender--7262690
    I disagree strongly. I believe that you are confusing, perhaps intentionally, gender and sex. Sex is biological. Gender is not. Gender is a construct by definition, as supported by psychological and sociological analysis and research. It is misconstrued with sex a lot. And I do ardently accept the relevance of biology but not that gender is biological as a construct/concept. I do not believe gender fluidity is really a thing. I would call it a struggle to see where you fit; I'd refer to it as a problem whereby people struggle to know where they identify. I would not called it 'fluid' myself. However, I would be willing to sit with someone who identifies as such and have a discussion about it. Just because I don't understand does not mean it doesn't exist. I simply believe that you cannot sit between genders. I know someone who professes to be agender for example, yet they wear clothing pertaining to one specific gender and then calls themselves a boy. That is a contradiction and as such, I'm doubtful. However, I would, again, be open to discussion.

    I don't agree with you, I'm sorry. I don't even hear of much discussion about gender fluidity in daily life.

    I disagree with that survey and think it was entirely wrong. I also accept the view that a lot of these 'genders' are jumping the gun; however, we all use language to give ourselves identity. This is perhaps why these terms exist. And they are only words. Gender is not the same as sex and as such, is a social construct. The fact that these names even really exist does say something in itself.
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    I am a straight natural male.
 
 
 
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