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    (Original post by nase14_aldayz)
    Any other season it would have been Poch, amazing turnaround at Spurs.

    Do you honestly think you can kick on from this next season?
    I wouldn't say it's a turnaround. He got 70 points, it isn't remarkable. AVB got 72 in 12/13 and with "Tactics" Tim got 69 the following season. They're in no better a position points wise than when he took over.

    0% they get higher next season. Man City would be aiming for 25 points more under Pep and Man Utd will have a similar target for Jose, if they have good windows, there isn't much stopping either. West Ham and Everton will both be stronger next season.

    All of that's without even mentioning 1st and 2nd.

    EDIT: Also, are people seriously suggesting Howe as a serious contender for 2nd best manager of the season...? Ugh
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    EDIT: Also, are people seriously suggesting Howe as a serious contender for 2nd best manager of the season...? Ugh
    He's done a pretty good job tbf - given no chance by most last summer, lost key striker and his two big summer signings early on to long term injuries but still stayed up fairly comfortably.


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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    He's done a pretty good job tbf - given no chance by most last summer, lost key striker and his two big summer signings early on to long term injuries but still stayed up fairly comfortably.
    Mings isn't PL quality and would have been on the bench had he not got crocked. His injury didn't really affect all that much.

    Wilson's injury was unfortunate but Howe was given £16m in January to spend on Grabban and Afobe. He spent £40m this season overall, if he finished any lower it'd be a big underachievement. I'd say he barely matched expectations.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    I wouldn't say it's a turnaround. He got 70 points, it isn't remarkable. AVB got 72 in 12/13 and with "Tactics" Tim got 69 the following season. They're in no better a position points wise than when he took over.
    Don't agree.

    For me it's about where you finish. The points tally just represents the quality of the league that year.
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    (Original post by nase14_aldayz)
    Don't agree.

    For me it's about where you finish. The points tally just represents the quality of the league that year.
    The points tally shows that the League was weaker this year than in 12/13 and 13/14 which would support the notion that his achievements aren't massively better than AVB and Sherwood. The positioning shows that the league was worse this year, which would also point to the league being worse.

    There was also the complete bottle job Pochettino did against Dortmund to rest players against minnows. If he gets 80 points next year for instance and finishes 3rd to the two Manchester clubs who get 85+ points, are you saying it would be no more impressive than this year...?
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    The points tally shows that the League was weaker this year than in 12/13 and 13/14 which would support the notion that his achievements aren't massively better than AVB and Sherwood. The positioning shows that the league was worse this year, which would also point to the league being worse.

    There was also the complete bottle job Pochettino did against Dortmund to rest players against minnows. If he gets 80 points next year for instance and finishes 3rd to the two Manchester clubs who get 85+ points, are you saying it would be no more impressive than this year...?
    The standard of the league may be worse but that's the standard and Spurs are the third best team in the country right now, which is clearly improvement. I couldn't care less what happened last year or five years or however long ago.
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    (Original post by TheMagicRat)
    The standard of the league may be worse but that's the standard and Spurs are the third best team in the country right now, which is clearly improvement. I couldn't care less what happened last year or five years or however long ago.
    The point I was CLEARLY making was that Pochettino hasn't got Spurs performing much better than normal, but they only look better as the rest of the league has slipped so much this season. When normal service resumes next season, they will be lucky to get 4th even if they play better. Spurs being third isn't so much down to Pochettino's successes, it's everyone else's failings.

    There was also the utter embarassment in Europe which Pochettino should take full blame for.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    The point I was CLEARLY making was that Pochettino hasn't got Spurs performing much better than normal, but they only look better as the rest of the league has slipped so much this season. When normal service resumes next season, they will be lucky to get 4th even if they play better. Spurs being third isn't so much down to Pochettino's successes, it's everyone else's failings.

    There was also the utter embarassment in Europe which Pochettino should take full blame for.
    Whenever anyone finishes above anyone else its because they failed less regardless of the standard, so that's no different.

    I do agree, however, with you when you say they will probably struggle a bit more next season since the likes of City and Chelsea should put in better performances.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    The points tally shows that the League was weaker this year than in 12/13 and 13/14 which would support the notion that his achievements aren't massively better than AVB and Sherwood. The positioning shows that the league was worse this year, which would also point to the league being worse.

    There was also the complete bottle job Pochettino did against Dortmund to rest players against minnows. If he gets 80 points next year for instance and finishes 3rd to the two Manchester clubs who get 85+ points, are you saying it would be no more impressive than this year...?
    Well it doesn't. You can read it as that, but you could just as easily say that the lower teams (Villa aside) are capable of taking more and more points from the top sides, so the league as a whole is stronger since it's more evenly matched, there's a hell of a lot less cannon fodder.
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    Team: Southampton

    Player of the Season: Tough one as it seems a few of our players have played well. Between van Dijk, Mane and Tadic. I think I'll go with Tadic.
    Signing of the Season: van Dijk, he's certainly helped sure up our defense after the loss of Alderweireld (who unsurprisingly was a big part of Spurs' great defense this season, apart from the last day, lol).
    Goal of the Season: Has to be Cuco Martina's outside of the foot goal against Arsenal. Cracking goal.
    Best Performance: When we thumped Arsenal 4-0. Of course people will just say Arsenal were being terrible and ignore how well we played.
    Best Moment: On the last day when we beat Palace hearing our fans chanting about Europe as we secured it on the last day.
    If your season were a film it'd be called: Don't know lol

    General:
    Player of the Season: Between Vardy and Mahrez. I think I'll go with Mahrez, since he was also a big part of Vardy's goals too.
    Signing of the Season: Claudio Ranieri, I know he's a manager but the work he's done to help Leicester sustain this throughout the whole season is incredible.
    Goal of the Season: Pretty hard, lot of good goals this year. Probably Benteke's goal, but Delle Alli's one was awesome too.
    Manager of the Season: Claudio Ranieri, obviously. But I'm proud of Koeman and what he's helped us achieve this season and hope we can cling on to him.

    Edit: Missed out score out of 10. I think 9 is reasonable, can't really ask for more right now.
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    (Original post by TheMagicRat)
    Whenever anyone finishes above anyone else its because they failed less regardless of the standard, so that's no different.I do agree, however, with you when you say they will probably struggle a bit more next season since the likes of City and Chelsea should put in better performances.
    The point I've been making is that the standard has dropped as opposed to Spurs' performances massively improving.

    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Well it doesn't. You can read it as that, but you could just as easily say that the lower teams (Villa aside) are capable of taking more and more points from the top sides, so the league as a whole is stronger since it's more evenly matched, there's a hell of a lot less cannon fodder.
    There still is cannon fodder like Newcastle, Sunderland, Villa, Norwich. No more than 12/13 and 13/14. It's a strange argument you're making if you're going to say that either the PL is a strong league and that the top sides only achieved because of the lower table sides expanding. Look at what happens in Europe to see how the top sides are stagnating/regressing. Chelsea getting nearly 90 points in 14/15 and Leicester winning the league this season is evidence enough that the top sides have been faltering.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    The points tally shows that the League was weaker this year than in 12/13 and 13/14 which would support the notion that his achievements aren't massively better than AVB and Sherwood. The positioning shows that the league was worse this year, which would also point to the league being worse.

    There was also the complete bottle job Pochettino did against Dortmund to rest players against minnows. If he gets 80 points next year for instance and finishes 3rd to the two Manchester clubs who get 85+ points, are you saying it would be no more impressive than this year...?
    I've read some of the other comments and it looks like we're not making the distinction between quality and competitiveness.

    My point really was that the league has been more competitive this year, so finishing third still shows a great turnaround at Spurs.

    To answer your question at the end: the first thing you look at is the league position. If you've finished in the same position, then you might look at points, goals scored, goal conceded, chances created, etc. So in your scenario I would say that's an improvement.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    There still is cannon fodder like Newcastle, Sunderland, Villa, Norwich. No more than 12/13 and 13/14. It's a strange argument you're making if you're going to say that either the PL is a strong league and that the top sides only achieved because of the lower table sides expanding. Look at what happens in Europe to see how the top sides are stagnating/regressing. Chelsea getting nearly 90 points in 14/15 and Leicester winning the league this season is evidence enough that the top sides have been faltering.
    Finalist in the EL, semi-finalist in the CL isn't that bad - but beyond that the argument that the league is weaker because the titles been won with less points or similar is ridiculous. If we were going on that then the Lincoln Red Imps won the Gibraltan premier league with 76 points from 27 games, which extrapolates to 107 points in a 38 game season. No-one would say that that's a strong league now - it's one good side relative to the rest; it's just a smaller example of France, Spain and Germany.

    Don't look at the performances against Real, Barcelona, PSG and Bayern, they're on another level to anyone; look at the performances against the rest of Europe, and for the most part they're still pretty good, and where they're not there's clear extenuating circumstances (like throwing the cups to focus on the league in the case of Potchettino and Spurs).

    We're seeing a decreasing trend in total points taken throughout the division: 1062 to 1047 to 1033 over the past three seasons, because more games that the big sides were winning, the smaller sides are now taking points from. The entire division is getting stronger, not the big sides getting weaker - a trend we'll see become more and more pronounced as the big TV deal kicks in and no-one has to be a selling club anymore, and bringing up Chelsea this season, when they spent half the season trying to get their manager sacked, doesn't give your argument any support - that's not them getting weaker by any stretch, that's them not trying to their level.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Finalist in the EL, semi-finalist in the CL isn't that bad - but beyond that the argument that the league is weaker because the titles been won with less points or similar is ridiculous. If we were going on that then the Lincoln Red Imps won the Gibraltan premier league with 76 points from 27 games, which extrapolates to 107 points in a 38 game season. No-one would say that that's a strong league now - it's one good side relative to the rest; it's just a smaller example of France, Spain and Germany.

    Don't look at the performances against Real, Barcelona, PSG and Bayern, they're on another level to anyone; look at the performances against the rest of Europe, and for the most part they're still pretty good, and where they're not there's clear extenuating circumstances (like throwing the cups to focus on the league in the case of Potchettino and Spurs).

    We're seeing a decreasing trend in total points taken throughout the division: 1062 to 1047 to 1033 over the past three seasons, because more games that the big sides were winning, the smaller sides are now taking points from. The entire division is getting stronger, not the big sides getting weaker - a trend we'll see become more and more pronounced as the big TV deal kicks in and no-one has to be a selling club anymore, and bringing up Chelsea this season, when they spent half the season trying to get their manager sacked, doesn't give your argument any support - that's not them getting weaker by any stretch, that's them not trying to their level.
    That's the thing, English clubs used to be able to compete with them namely United, Liverpool and Chelsea. Now we only have one English side who will get to the later stages each year when we used to have more than one. The top English clubs have fallen imo, United and Liverpool (who aren't even a top club anymore) are perfect examples of this. The fact that we were in danger of losing our 4th place CL qualification to the Italians supports the argument.

    To be fair, English teams have done well in Europe this season but we need to see it on a more regular basis.
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    Don't look at the performances against Real, Barcelona, PSG and Bayern, they're on another level to anyone; look at the performances against the rest of Europe, and for the most part they're still pretty good, and where they're not there's clear extenuating circumstances (like throwing the cups to focus on the league in the case of Potchettino and Spurs).
    It's contradictory to your stance to say that the top teams are getting weaker and then pointing out teams who they can't compete with, when in previous years they could. You're claiming we shouldn't compare English top sides to the best in other leagues because they're nowhere near as good, yet you're saying the PL is a top league - contradiction there. In the case of Pochettino, having to rest key players against Dortmund because of a match against Aston Villa at the weekend is more or less acceptance that they're not on Dortmund's level.

    We're seeing a decreasing trend in total points taken throughout the division: 1062 to 1047 to 1033 over the past three seasons, because more games that the big sides were winning, the smaller sides are now taking points from. The entire division is getting stronger, not the big sides getting weaker - a trend we'll see become more and more pronounced as the big TV deal kicks in and no-one has to be a selling club anymore, and bringing up Chelsea this season, when they spent half the season trying to get their manager sacked, doesn't give your argument any support - that's not them getting weaker by any stretch, that's them not trying to their level.
    Yes it does. If a side could easily win the league in 14/15 by coasting to wins it points to the league and the top sides being a bit naff. Also, Chelsea have clearly got weaker this year.

    It's contradictory to your stance to say that the top teams are getting weaker and then pointing out teams who they can't compete with, when in previous years they could. Having only one English cup reach the CL final in five seasons, with most going out early is proof enough that it isn't a top league.

    When English teams stop getting picked apart in Europe I'll believe you that the PL is a top league.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    It's contradictory to your stance to say that the top teams are getting weaker and then pointing out teams who they can't compete with, when in previous years they could.
    No it isn't - it's blindingly obvious those four sides have just progressed to another level, the top English sides haven't got weaker, they've stayed still (with the exception of Liverpool and the Manchester clubs, but they've all taken each other's position - man city have moved up to regular title challengers (taking man uniteds place), man utd have dropped back to CL/EL border (where liverpool were) and Liverpool have become the midtable side that man city were pre-oil money, the four I've mentioned have just gotten much stronger

    You're claiming we shouldn't compare English top sides to the best in other leagues because they're nowhere near as good, yet you're saying the PL is a top league - contradiction there.
    I'm saying it's a strong league, and the smaller sides getting closer to the top supports that.

    In the case of Pochettino, having to rest key players against Dortmund because of a match against Aston Villa at the weekend is more or less acceptance that they're not on Dortmund's level.
    Except they chose to rest them rather than having to. Spurs second string would still have pumped villa, but potchettino chose to focus his strongest team on the league.

    Yes it does. If a side could easily win the league in 14/15 by coasting to wins it points to the league and the top sides being a bit naff. Also, Chelsea have clearly got weaker this year.
    so to establish the German league is **** since bayern coast to it, and Chelsea were only strong while they had eva. Chelsea haven't got weaker, it's the same team as last season, they simply spent half a season not playing in favour of staging a mutiny.




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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    He was a winger at Monaco and has been largely been played on the left of a 4-2-3-1 at Man Utd this season.
    If we do want to go into this. He did play up front near the end of the 14/15 season for Monaco and started getting into good form, even if he did play mainly at the wing at the start of the 14/15 season.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    I wouldn't say it's a turnaround. He got 70 points, it isn't remarkable. AVB got 72 in 12/13 and with "Tactics" Tim got 69 the following season. They're in no better a position points wise than when he took over.

    0% they get higher next season. Man City would be aiming for 25 points more under Pep and Man Utd will have a similar target for Jose, if they have good windows, there isn't much stopping either. West Ham and Everton will both be stronger next season.

    All of that's without even mentioning 1st and 2nd.

    EDIT: Also, are people seriously suggesting Howe as a serious contender for 2nd best manager of the season...? Ugh
    Yeah, AVB still had a higher points total with a team that was essentially Bale and Lloris. I don't see what Pochettino has done other than make the football more attractive to watch, really he's benefited from a weak Chelsea, United and City. Liverpool arguably should have left too.

    I also think Chelsea with no european football next season with Conte(who has done a similar job in Italy with Juve to what he has now with Chelsea and would have pull similar to the likes of Klopp, Pep, Wenger and Mourinho) is a definite title threat along with the Manchester clubs. Arsenal you'd expect to be there or thereabouts and Liverpool have Klopp so they're an unknown quantity.

    One thing's for sure. Spurs are very unlikely to make 4th next season unless there is some major investment coming in.
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    Dembele stats this season. Christ:

    Tackles = 104 (1st in PL)
    Tackles won = 86 (1st in PL)
    Duels won = 249 (1st in PL)
    Passing accuracy = 90% (1st in PL)
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Dembele stats this season. Christ:

    Tackles = 104 (1st in PL)
    Tackles won = 86 (1st in PL)
    Duels won = 249 (1st in PL)
    Passing accuracy = 90% (1st in PL)
    Fairly certain N'Golo Kante has made more than that, and won more than that, and the stats say he has:

    http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2015/2016/n$golo_kanté/165/165/14999/0/p|premier_league/2015/2016/mousa_dembélé/165/165/493/0/p#tackles_won#total
 
 
 

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