Who are more oppressed in modern western society? Men or women?

No worries at all. It seems very strange for anyone to claim that men are the oppressed sex.

It really is very simple to work out; all you have to do is look at which sex overwhelmingly occupies the major positions of power in government, military, central banks, intelligence agencies and business.

Even in 2014 (the last year for which I had numbers), when I looked at the numbers of male and female attainment of pupillages to become barristers, and even considering a majority of law graduates are women, it was still the case that 9 out of 10 pupillages at the top chambers practising the most prestigious areas of law (chancery) were male. The only areas where females attained more pupillages were in areas that might be traditionally considered "womens' work" (family law and immigration)

So the argument that some people make that equality has arrived and we just need to wait for the current crop of female graduates to make their way through the system doesn't wash.

Looking at business, it's still the case that there are many boards of directors in top UK companies which have no women at all, or if they do they have a single woman (invariably the HR director, again stereotypically "womens' work".

I cannot understand why some people insist on asserting this complete reversal of reality by claiming men are the oppressed sex. Of course there are mens' issues; men do undertake the dirtiest and most dangerous jobs. They have shorter life expectancy. There are issues surrounding male suicide, confused expectations of the male role, issues around male sexuality... but these do not overturn the fundamental fact that men dominate the real centres of power in our society

I would say women have legal superiority. You won't be able to say one aspect of where men have legal superiority. Although I challenge you to do so.

Also here's a few things, the wage gap does not exist, well it does but it's because women, in general, tend to go into lower paying professions, so even though there are more women graduating from university, they still have a lower chance of earning as much as STEM graduates, who are mostly male

Also more men go into politics than women, more men go into the army, the armed forces than women so it makes sense that it's mostly men that make up the higher power positions in these jobs.

You can't argue against this.

You're saying the reason behind low number of women in these fields is purely due to sexism. Can you not possibly comprehend that it's because simply less women enter these fields of work that you mention.

What I don't understand is why people think that companies don't hire women.

You're the one making the positive assertion; you claim women have "legal superiority". How? Specifically, cite chapter and verse what statute, what case law, what regulation, gives women superiority over men?

My position is that both sexes have formal legal equality, but that it is not reflected in the actual distribution of power. Please cite specifically in which area women have "legal superiority"



Utter nonsense. The wage gap has been clearly shown by comparing like-with-like; comparing men and women in the same profession and in many cases with exactly the same continuity of service. And your theory doesn't account for the instance I cited where in the distribution of pupillages men beat women at a ratio of 10 to 1 to attain pupillages in the most prestigious sets (chancery sets) even though they receive similar numbers of applications from both sexes.



The reason less women than men go into the army is because until recently they were barred from pretty much all the important positions in the armed forces (combat positions in the infantry, artillery, submarines). More men going into politics is a reflection of the bias and prejudice that existed against women and the difficulties they faced; it is a symptom of the imbalance, not its cause.

If you want to understand more about that, read any biography of a woman politician form the older generation like Margaret Thatcher or Shirley Williams to understand just how unwelcome they were made to feel when they arrived in the House of Commons.



I can and I just did. It's called a debate. You can't offer up flimsy, barely-evidenced assertions as you just have and then imperiously proclaim "You can't argue against this". I can and did, so put that in your pipe and smoke it

Although I agree with what you said there is no formal law that disadvantages men or women

You really have no idea, do you? Then again, you're young and you've never operated at that level in business or government so it's perhaps to be expected that you really have no clue really how hard it is for women to strike the right balance

Come on, you don't know me, you don't know how old I am or if am a man or woman, so no personal stuff please.

Also I know you know that anecdotes are just irrelevant, however true it may be.

I'm guessing you're a student, as this is the student room. So the likelihood is that you've never been, say, a director of a FTSE 100 company or a senior civil servant? Am I right or am I right?



An account can be perfectly relevant if it evidences the systemic bias to which I refer.

Anyway I'm off to the pub so I'll see you round.

Exactly. Just think of all those poor women who were forced to fight and die in the trenches during WW1, whilst all the men were allowed to stay at home and raise their families and...... oh wait.

I'm guessing you're a student, as this is the student room. So the likelihood is that you've never been, say, a director of a FTSE 100 company or a senior civil servant? Am I right or am I right?



An account can be perfectly relevant if it evidences the systemic bias to which I refer.

Anyway I'm off to the pub so I'll see you round.

Women weren't allowed to fight in the war which is why there was so much movement in those times to allow women to work in the factories to help the war effort. They weren't allowed to fight so they wanted to help the war in any way they could by making bullets, working in the factories to keep the country going and training in medicine to help the wounded who were brought home.

Let's face it, do I really know what I'm taking about? No. Do most people know what they're talking about when it comes to issues like this? No not really. It's just people putting their biased opinion forward which is normal (me included probably).

Damn those awful men putting their lives on the line and protecting their women. Work in shops and factories or dodge bullets for as long as you can stay alive...