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Talent vs Hardwork(can hard work really over take talent?) Watch

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    Nebulous a term as talent is, perhaps it gives you a better head start. But if you don't push on, others will run past you...
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    (Original post by Acsel)
    Well there's different types of talent. People with a natural talent will be able to succeed without trying that much. They're naturally good at something, or have a natural skill that helps. Think of stuff like being able to music music by ear, having a natural ability with numbers making you good at maths and so on.

    No amount of hard work will give you that talent. It's something usually something biological that makes the talented person physiologically different from someone else.

    On the other hand you have someone who is talented. They have talent to play the piano, or write stories, or whatever. In these cases talent is a result of hard work. They try hard, practice lots and get better. Whether they have a natural talent or not doesn't matter. These sorts of people are the ones you can catch up to by simply working hard. Really talent is just another word for experience here. These people have been practicing for longer and have lots more experience doing their thing, ergo they appear talented.

    As you say, talent means you have a knack for what you're doing. You're good at it. But that can come from any number of places, most commonly because you worked hard to get good or you had a natural talent for it in the first place. The key difference is the amount of work you put in. Nobody is born with the ability to play the piano well, or write perfect stories. Those with a natural talent just pick it up faster while everyone else will have to work a bit harder. Natural talent helps but it doesn't make hard work completely irrelevant.
    Thus if talent can be replaced by the word experience it should be. Therefore "talent" isn't really talent, it's just the product of hard work and experience.
    Natural talent here i what i'm talking about.
    So the question still stands(although it may have changed slightly)
    Can those who work hard ever surpass those with nautral talent?(who also work hard)
    Obviously natural talent will help however you must put work in to make something out of your learning etc.
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    (Original post by 13 1 20 8 42)
    Nebulous a term as talent is, perhaps it gives you a better head start. But if you don't push on, others will run past you...
    I agree and that's the classic example and the result will be obvious but why do people tell me that hard work always will get you far in life and it always beats talent?
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    (Original post by thefatone)
    Thus if talent can be replaced by the word experience it should be. Therefore "talent" isn't really talent, it's just the product of hard work and experience.
    Natural talent here i what i'm talking about.
    So the question still stands(although it may have changed slightly)
    Can those who work hard ever surpass those with nautral talent?(who also work hard)
    Obviously natural talent will help however you must put work in to make something out of your learning etc.
    If you just specify natural talent then no, 2 people who work equally hard, one with and one without natural talent will never be equal. The person with natural talent will always be ahead.

    Furthermore the odds are they'll grow exponentially. Someone with no natural talent will probably grow linearly. So as time goes on the individual with natural talent will grow further and the gap will widen.

    That said equality is not totally unobtainable. Someone with natural talent who works hard will potentially be caught up by someone who has no talent who works harder.

    And of course you can compare varying levels of natural talent. A small natural talent will have less of an impact than a large natural talent. So you may find someone with a small natural talent is actually pretty close to someone with no talent. Not to mention how hard work affects people. Talent may work hard but no talent may work smarter, meaning they make the same amount of progress in the same amount of time, despite the talent difference.

    In a perfectly controlled experiment, someone with talent will always outperform someone with no talent. But since the world is not perfectly controlled I think it's perfectly viable for people with no talent to catch up to people with talent. Not everyone of course, there are simply some things you can't catch up to. But there's so many variables that it's not a be all, end all situation.
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    (Original post by thefatone)
    I agree and that's the classic example and the result will be obvious but why do people tell me that hard work always will get you far in life and it always beats talent?
    I'd guess most people who say that hard work will always get you far in life are people who have worked hard and it has gotten them far in life, and due to that they don't see why it should be different for anyone else. Or even people who haven't worked particularly hard but feel like they have because they have had success.
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    (Original post by Acsel)
    If you just specify natural talent then no, 2 people who work equally hard, one with and one without natural talent will never be equal. The person with natural talent will always be ahead.

    Furthermore the odds are they'll grow exponentially. Someone with no natural talent will probably grow linearly. So as time goes on the individual with natural talent will grow further and the gap will widen.

    That said equality is not totally unobtainable. Someone with natural talent who works hard will potentially be caught up by someone who has no talent who works harder.

    And of course you can compare varying levels of natural talent. A small natural talent will have less of an impact than a large natural talent. So you may find someone with a small natural talent is actually pretty close to someone with no talent. Not to mention how hard work affects people. Talent may work hard but no talent may work smarter, meaning they make the same amount of progress in the same amount of time, despite the talent difference.

    In a perfectly controlled experiment, someone with talent will always outperform someone with no talent. But since the world is not perfectly controlled I think it's perfectly viable for people with no talent to catch up to people with talent. Not everyone of course, there are simply some things you can't catch up to. But there's so many variables that it's not a be all, end all situation.
    There's only so hard you can work xD
    right then
    (Original post by 13 1 20 8 42)
    I'd guess most people who say that hard work will always get you far in life are people who have worked hard and it has gotten them far in life, and due to that they don't see why it should be different for anyone else. Or even people who haven't worked particularly hard but feel like they have because they have had success.
    They assume something which is wrong.
    Which is like you stated the fact they've worked hard and it has ALWAYS gotten them somewhere, they've never work hard and had no results from it....
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    From what I remember of you in the physics forums, you're not that bad at physics.

    Personally, I think talent is rather nebulous - it's almost certainly impossible to measure "natural talent" as so many things contribute to your experience and confidence in different areas. Child prodigies are usually pushed into doing an extraordinary amount of pracice in their area - natural talent is only a factor at best.

    Yes, some people are probably more naturally talented than others. It's not clear how big of an impact that makes. It is clear that hard work makes a pretty big impact (particularly if it's targetted correctly, thus muddying the waters even more). In fact, I'd go so far as to say having a natural work ethic is the most valuable.
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    (Original post by thefatone)
    There's only so hard you can work xD
    right then


    They assume something which is wrong.
    Which is like you stated the fact they've worked hard and it has ALWAYS gotten them somewhere, they've never work hard and had no results from it....
    This is a fair point. I've always had enough (what felt like) raw intelligence to ******** my way through most lessons without trying too hard. And I understand that there's a large number of people who don't do so well who probably couldn't suddenly get very high marks through "hard work". It's just not in the cards within the timeframe.

    However, I do hold that what's perceived as natural talent is probably mostly envirnonmental. For instance, my parents used to do extra maths/english with me and my sister a few times a week back in maybe reception to Year 3. And we were always encouraged to read a lot (we'd read through the school library with the "colour codes", then just read novels for fun. I'd usually read books straight after my older sister finished them too, which meant I read e.g. Lord of the Rings at the end of Year 3). I think a lot of that background contributed much more than innate intelligence.
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    getting results in life is

    20% natural ability/talent
    80%hard work
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    (Original post by lerjj)
    This is a fair point. I've always had enough (what felt like) raw intelligence to ******** my way through most lessons without trying too hard. And I understand that there's a large number of people who don't do so well who probably couldn't suddenly get very high marks through "hard work". It's just not in the cards within the timeframe.

    However, I do hold that what's perceived as natural talent is probably mostly envirnonmental. For instance, my parents used to do extra maths/english with me and my sister a few times a week back in maybe reception to Year 3. And we were always encouraged to read a lot (we'd read through the school library with the "colour codes", then just read novels for fun. I'd usually read books straight after my older sister finished them too, which meant I read e.g. Lord of the Rings at the end of Year 3). I think a lot of that background contributed much more than innate intelligence.
    I see so not just your current capacity to learn and understand things, how you're brought up makes a difference? interesting, although i guess it does make sense.

    (Original post by may_1)
    getting results in life is

    20% natural ability/talent
    80%hard work
    For me this is the formula for working hard at things i don't understand

    100% hard work + 0% talent = 0% results
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    For me this is the formula for working hard at things i don't understand

    100% hard work + 0% talent = 0% results[/QUOTE]

    sorry I don't get what you mean, elaborate? Do you mean for you personally this is the case and your getting 0% results?

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    there is no such thing as natural talent
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    (Original post by thefatone)
    I see so not just your current capacity to learn and understand things, how you're brought up makes a difference? interesting, although i guess it does make sense.



    For me this is the formula for working hard at things i don't understand

    100% hard work + 0% talent = 0% results
    I'm basically saying that talent is more like the accummuated sum of all the work you've done. Intelligence is probably partly genetic, but I suspect it's more environmental.

    I don't have a source for this but I'll suggest that the existance of people who are really good at some things (maths or engineering, say) naturally but who lack "natural talent" at other things (playing piano) probably just reflects that they did related things as a kid and have kept it up. After all, both of these things are "intelligence" based. Genetics is messy and I doubt there are genes specific enough to make you better at maths but not playing an instrument. Similar arguments can be made for essay writing etc.
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    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard... But when talent works hard...it's game over. That's just how it works
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    It's going to be hard, but it's worth it in the end. I know that I'm not the most intellengent student. I don't have that talent. But I try my best in what I do.

    It's about believing yourself. If you believe you can do it. You will.
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    (Original post by may_1)
    For me this is the formula for working hard at things i don't understand

    100% hard work + 0% talent = 0% results
    sorry I don't get what you mean, elaborate? Do you mean for you personally this is the case and your getting 0% results?

    thefatone[/QUOTE]
    I mean from my own personal experience i have worked had and gained nothing from it, so i pretty much wasted my time
    (Original post by SuperHuman98)
    there is no such thing as natural talent
    really? where you're born with a better capacity to learn than others?
    (Original post by lerjj)
    I'm basically saying that talent is more like the accummuated sum of all the work you've done. Intelligence is probably partly genetic, but I suspect it's more environmental.

    I don't have a source for this but I'll suggest that the existance of people who are really good at some things (maths or engineering, say) naturally but who lack "natural talent" at other things (playing piano) probably just reflects that they did related things as a kid and have kept it up. After all, both of these things are "intelligence" based. Genetics is messy and I doubt there are genes specific enough to make you better at maths but not playing an instrument. Similar arguments can be made for essay writing etc.
    I guess.
    (Original post by shameful_burrito)
    Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard... But when talent works hard...it's game over. That's just how it works
    That's obvious but why do people still tell me that hard work can always beat talent?

    you forgot the option where you work hard and you're still worse than the talented who don't work
    (Original post by aamirac)


    It's going to be hard, but it's worth it in the end. I know that I'm not the most intellengent student. I don't have that talent. But I try my best in what I do.

    It's about believing yourself. If you believe you can do it. You will.
    Is it? Is it really worth it?
    Can i really? i'm sure it doesn't work that way, my physics for example, is something i've worked at and tried to understand but it just doesn't work. I'm still swaying more towards the you have to think about the other option. Yes most will say working harder gives better results and there's proof of it too, but what about the other option? what if you work hard and you don't get **** for it?
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    (Original post by thefatone)

    Is it? Is it really worth it?
    Can i really? i'm sure it doesn't work that way, my physics for example, is something i've worked at and tried to understand but it just doesn't work. I'm still swaying more towards the you have to think about the other option. Yes most will say working harder gives better results and there's proof of it too, but what about the other option? what if you work hard and you don't get **** for it?
    Yes, yes it is.
    I struggle with physics too. (AS) But it depends on how you look at things, having that different perspective and seeing the bigger picture when solving problems helps understand the maths behind it and ties everything together.
    But you need to realise that the only person saying you can't do it, is yourself. So instead of mopping about it. It's better to do something about it. Use this to fuel your motivation.
    Find something that doesn't work out for you? Try an alternative method?
    It will take time, yes. But that's honestly okay, do what ever you have to do to help you.
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    (Original post by aamirac)
    Yes, yes it is.
    I struggle with physics too. (AS) But it depends on how you look at things, having that different perspective and seeing the bigger picture when solving problems helps understand the maths behind it and ties everything together.
    But you need to realise that the only person saying you can't do it, is yourself. So instead of mopping about it. It's better to do something about it. Use this to fuel your motivation.
    Find something that doesn't work out for you? Try an alternative method?
    It will take time, yes. But that's honestly okay, do what ever you have to do to help you.
    I have come to this conclusion after taking a year of AS physics and failing miserably in the mock exam, i won't just go an say i can't do physics without trying hard at it or for anything else for that matter.

    I've tried many methods of learning stuff like spider diagrams and all that jazz but it never worked.
    I have given time too much time but i've tried my hardest to understand and learn the stuff but it just never works out, i've already had all this motivation to give my best and i have, what else can i do? nothing is the answer just forget it
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    (Original post by thefatone)
    I have come to this conclusion after taking a year of AS physics and failing miserably in the mock exam, i won't just go an say i can't do physics without trying hard at it or for anything else for that matter.

    I've tried many methods of learning stuff like spider diagrams and all that jazz but it never worked.
    I have given time too much time but i've tried my hardest to understand and learn the stuff but it just never works out, i've already had all this motivation to give my best and i have, what else can i do? nothing is the answer just forget it
    ohh :hugs:

    Guess what? I'm crap at physics too. My teacher doesn't even think I should be sitting in the class, but I'm still there.
    I'm the same, I haven't got the 'talent', but I enjoy it and want to carry it on. So I am.

    Ultimately, do you see a future in you going into the physics (or related field)?
    If not, then I think you would have to tell your teacher/HoY about how you feel about this.
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    (Original post by aamirac)
    ohh :hugs:

    Guess what? I'm crap at physics too. My teacher doesn't even think I should be sitting in the class, but I'm still there.
    I'm the same, I haven't got the 'talent', but I enjoy it and want to carry it on. So I am.

    Ultimately, do you see a future in you going into the physics (or related field)?
    If not, then I think you would have to tell your teacher/HoY about how you feel about this.
    That's the difference between you and i. I didn't really like physics but it got tough quick and although i worked at it it never happened for me :/

    I do not, something in the field of maths sounds good to me
 
 
 
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