Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Voting to leave the EU to avoid growth in the far right on the continent, discuss Watch

    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yes they could, what is EU supremacy of law? They already override our constitutional laws, whose to say they couldn't choose to do something disastrous?
    Yes they could what?

    As I said, the UK is heavily involved in EU law making.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Yes they could what?

    As I said, the UK is heavily involved in EU law making.
    They could directly could dictate policy through overruling our laws. Even if we are involved, there is nothing stopping a bunch of nations uniting against us and passing laws that actively hurt us.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    They could directly could dictate policy through overruling our laws. Even if we are involved, there is nothing stopping a bunch of nations uniting against us and passing laws that actively hurt us.
    Yet in all this time it just hasn't happened. The EU works through negotiation and co-operation.

    I don't see why the EU would implement a damaging law. If it applies to the UK, it also applies to the 27 other member countries - and why would they want to hurt themselves?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Yet in all this time it just has't happened. The EU works through negotiation and co-operation.

    I don't see why the EU would implement a damaging law. If it applies to the UK, it also applies to the 27 other member countries - and why would they want to hurt themselves?
    There are things they can do to hurt us and not themselves, private bills can be specific. You cannot predict the future, look at the past and see how different things are from what they were 100 years ago. If the EU exists then, who knows what things will be like?

    It is likely that the EU's grasp will become stronger, but that is all I can predict confidently.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    There are things they can do to hurt us and not themselves, private bills can be specific. You cannot predict the future, look at the past and see how different things are from what they were 100 years ago. If the EU exists then, who knows what things will be like?
    Private bills? Can you name me one of these "private bills" which has come from the EU?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Private bills? Can you name me one of these "private bills" which has come from the EU?
    They aren't called private bills, but they have a similar function. For instance limiting the fishing of UK vessels.

    There also seems to have been some discussion associated with country specific legislation :

    http://ec.europa.eu/europe2020/makin...s/index_en.htm
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    They aren't called private bills, but they have a similar function. For instance limiting the fishing of UK vessels.

    There also seems to have been some discussion associated with country specific legislation :

    http://ec.europa.eu/europe2020/makin...s/index_en.htm
    That link says nothing about country specific legislation.

    What are these private bills actually called? How are they created?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    That link says nothing about country specific legislation.

    What are these private bills actually called? How are they created?
    Seems to be like this http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-mak...s/index_en.htm

    They are actually called decisions http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-mak...s/index_en.htm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_(European_Union)

    These decisions seem to be similar by what I meant by private bills, law that binds a certain region.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    DecisionsA "decision" is binding on those to whom it is addressed (e.g. an EU country or an individual company) and is directly applicable. For example, the Commission issued a decision on the EU participating in the work of various counter-terrorism organisations. The decision related to these organisations only.

    Sourced from that page
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Seems to be like this http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-mak...s/index_en.htm

    They are actually called decisions http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-mak...s/index_en.htm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_(European_Union)

    These decisions seem to be similar by what I meant by private bills, law that binds a certain region.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    DecisionsA "decision" is binding on those to whom it is addressed (e.g. an EU country or an individual company) and is directly applicable. For example, the Commission issued a decision on the EU participating in the work of various counter-terrorism organisations. The decision related to these organisations only.

    Sourced from that page
    So it appears that decisions are drafted after consultations with experts, national governments and other groups. Citizens and businesses can join in the consolation exercise.

    Then the commission draws up the proposal - and the commission is formed of members from each country. The proposal then goes to the European Parliament and the Council.

    So at every stage, the UK would have a voice in the matter. Doesn't seem like being dictated to in my view. And it certainly doesn't look the what you have said is possible - that all of a sudden, a EU member country decides to, of its own back, create a law targeting one particular country... with that country having no say in the matter.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    So it appears that decisions are drafted after consultations with experts, national governments and other groups. Citizens and businesses can join in the consolation exercise.

    Then the commission draws up the proposal - and the commission is formed of members from each country. The proposal then goes to the European Parliament and the Council.

    So at every stage, the UK would have a voice in the matter. Doesn't seem like being dictated to in my view. And it certainly doesn't look the what you have said is possible - that all of a sudden, a EU member country decides to, of its own back, create a law targeting one particular country... with that country having no say in the matter.
    Yes, but what if the UK has a minority of support? What about if it is surrounded by hostile countries? Sure, its a long shot at the moment, but we do not know what the future holds.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Given that it's the far right of the Tory party and UKIP who want to leave, it's laughable to claim we need to leave to avoid the far right.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    I never said that, to think that would be stupid. However, it would have a lesser effec since the other countries wouldn't be directly dictating our policies.
    your fears are ridiculously primitive
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lolatmaths)
    your fears are ridiculously primitive
    If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it, Germany formed in a similar way.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Given that it's the far right of the Tory party and UKIP who want to leave, it's laughable to claim we need to leave to avoid the far right.
    Are they though? UKIP isn't far right. Neither are the vast majority of tories.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it, Germany formed in a similar way.



    Are they though? UKIP isn't far right. Neither are the vast majority of tories.
    UKIP are very right wing, as are the right of the Tory party.

    To quote our prime minister, 'fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists'.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    UKIP are very right wing, as are the right of the Tory party.

    To quote our prime minister, 'fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists'.
    Our prime minister is full of it, they aren't even close to far right. That would be EDL, National Front and BNP
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it, Germany formed in a similar way.
    do elaborate
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Our prime minister is full of it, they aren't even close to far right. That would be EDL, National Front and BNP
    UKIP pretty much are EDL lite.
    The right wing parties in this country want out so the idea we need to leave to escape the far right of Europe is not logical.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lolatmaths)
    do elaborate
    If you read about the formation of germany in 1871, a free trade coalition formed in the 1840s. Admittedly, German nationalism had been a recent phenomenon when that started but still

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    UKIP pretty much are EDL lite.
    The right wing parties in this country want out so the idea we need to leave to escape the far right of Europe is not logical.
    Except they are not far right, look at their policies.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    If you read about the formation of germany in 1871, a free trade coalition formed in the 1840s. Admittedly, German nationalism had been a recent phenomenon when that started but still
    Come on, the EU is more than just that (had a read, quite interesting) i mean no one makes the comparison to the north american trade block or the asian one
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lolatmaths)
    Come on, the EU is more than just that (had a read, quite interesting) i mean no one makes the comparison to the north american trade block or the asian one
    I know that, but that is what it initially what it was, and that is what I think it should be. I hate all the messing with laws. The EU has evolved into a political entity from an economic one.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.