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    Most graduates know it is hard to get a good job, it has been hard for a while.

    They don't need you coming on patronising them about "how the young of today think they are entitled to everything" to tell them.

    A lot of graduates volunteer or seek work in low paid jobs to get experience but struggle to get them because they are seen as overqualified, also many of those that are in them get stuck in them because they are dead end jobs and don't offer any credible route out unless they can subsequently get on a graduate scheme.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Most graduates know it is hard to get a good job, it has been hard for a while.

    They don't need you coming on patronising them about "how the young of today think they are entitled to everything" to tell them.

    A lot of graduates volunteer or seek work in low paid jobs to get experience but struggle to get them because they are seen as overqualified, also many of those that are in them get stuck in them because they are dead end jobs and don't offer any credible route out unless they can subsequently get on a graduate scheme.
    Again I wasn't trying to be patronising, I know it has been hard to get a job after graduation, I have been in that position before but only for 2 weeks. Just trying to give some advice to prove a point.
    Not all graduates do look for volunteer/work experience because as I said they feel that they still don't need to. Basically they want the job to come to them. This will lead to a massive gap in their empty CV especially in the employment history section.
    As I pointed out, you need to work hard to get what you want in life. That's what I have learned through this job hunting process.
    I took on a graduate yesterday to help the marketing department, but I sacked her today because the staff in the department said she absolutely had 0% enthusiasm to do the job that was required from her and she kept huffing and puffing everytime a senior member of staff asked her to perform a task, as if she didn't want to be here.

    In conclusion, the right attitude and enthusiasm goes a long way.
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    ^ Gosh, that was ruthless (being sacked by someone roughly the same age lol)
    I got down to work immediately when I had my previous job, when I got the sack I was clearly told the reasons why. In a sense I kind of agreed with what they had to say, I found it hard to understand the industry they were marketing their software towards.
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    ^ Gosh, that was ruthless (being sacked by someone roughly the same age lol)
    I got down to work immediately when I had my previous job, when I got the sack I was clearly told the reasons why. In a sense I kind of agreed with what they had to say, I found it hard to understand the industry they were marketing their software towards.
    She told me that her 'services' were no longer needed (no hard feelings there then). My manager made a little giggle and asked 'What services?!'
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    I do agree with the point youre trying to make in this thread, im in an industry where you can get into your dream career with just a bsc and some good work experience which you can get through local volunteer groups or with a well known charity. yet I see people with msc's and no work experience on placements in the same type of company I now work for (paid) because they didn't bother with the experience after graduating assuming a 1st would have escorted them through the door. instead of going for work experience they go for an msc which still isn't enough on its own and end up having to volunteer anyway
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    (Original post by PinkAcid)
    I do agree with the point youre trying to make in this thread, im in an industry where you can get into your dream career with just a bsc and some good work experience which you can get through local volunteer groups or with a well known charity. yet I see people with msc's and no work experience on placements in the same type of company I now work for (paid) because they didn't bother with the experience after graduating assuming a 1st would have escorted them through the door. instead of going for work experience they go for an msc which still isn't enough on its own and end up having to volunteer anyway
    Therefore wasting more time and money which they [graduates] don't have!

    However there are some industries that require a Masters for example Architecture, Social Work (if you had to go through a different course for not being eligible for the BA programme, mainly due to competition) but obviously even that isn't enough for those who want work, because you still need yes, that word again - experience.

    I know some of my former course mates who went through the Masters route, graduated last year but still couldn't find a job due to their lack of experience (well zero).
    I also know some 18 year olds (at that age I started working) who have started studying but yet they are not looking for work because they think being clever is enough...but it clearly isn't.
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    (Original post by PinkAcid)
    I do agree with the point youre trying to make in this thread, im in an industry where you can get into your dream career with just a bsc and some good work experience which you can get through local volunteer groups or with a well known charity. yet I see people with msc's and no work experience on placements in the same type of company I now work for (paid) because they didn't bother with the experience after graduating assuming a 1st would have escorted them through the door. instead of going for work experience they go for an msc which still isn't enough on its own and end up having to volunteer anyway
    And that's exactly how it should be. I couldn't care less what level degree you have - BSc/BA, MSc/MA, PhD - no significant experience and you're going straight in the bin.
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    (Original post by stevey396)
    And that's exactly how it should be. I couldn't care less what level degree you have - BSc/BA, MSc/MA, PhD - no significant experience and you're going straight in the bin.
    By significant you mean relevant to the role?
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    (Original post by KTS89)
    By significant you mean relevant to the role?
    Yes, but be aware there are two types of relevance. There is the specific 'we need you to have used this software, equipment, team structure, vehicle before' type experience. Not many entry level jobs, whether school leavers or graduate, need this sort of experience. Technology use is the most specific experience, ie 'needs experience of C++'.

    Otherwise, what employers are usually looking for is relevant experience in terms of a worldliness and common sense that fits in the professional world. They want an appropriate level of teamwork, leadership, listening skills, conversational skills etc. That sort of relevant skill comes from simply getting of your backside and doing something other than TSR, computer games, going to clubs, drinking and obsessing over social media!.

    The tension in the market at the moment, is that compared with the real world, schools totally spoonfeed pupils. You know every single thing about the syllabus, the scoring process, the grading system, the shape and size of the exam hall, the rules around the exams etc. In the working world you just don't have that information. You have to work out what the client wants through a series of meetings with them, when you are faced with real people (who may be having a bad day, may not know what they want etc), you may have to give a presentation without any guidelines on what is wanted, you'll have to pitch up to an address and then be in a room with a computer you've never seen before to give a presentation to win the contract etc.

    Even if you are a junior in a team, you can significantly impact business from day 1 and if you can't operate with a reasonable degree of independence, you aren't a safe hire. That's bog standard for professional life, and at the point of recruitment, school leavers and graduates have to be able to demonstrate they can step up.

    You get that more general experience by getting out and doing things outside the schedules of school and uni, and it doesn;t much matter what it is.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Yes, but be aware there are two types of relevance. There is the specific 'we need you to have used this software, equipment, team structure, vehicle before' type experience. Not many entry level jobs, whether school leavers or graduate, need this sort of experience. Technology use is the most specific experience, ie 'needs experience of C++'.

    Otherwise, what employers are usually looking for is relevant experience in terms of a worldliness and common sense that fits in the professional world. They want an appropriate level of teamwork, leadership, listening skills, conversational skills etc. That sort of relevant skill comes from simply getting of your backside and doing something other than TSR, computer games, going to clubs, drinking and obsessing over social media!.

    The tension in the market at the moment, is that compared with the real world, schools totally spoonfeed pupils. You know every single thing about the syllabus, the scoring process, the grading system, the shape and size of the exam hall, the rules around the exams etc. In the working world you just don't have that information. You have to work out what the client wants through a series of meetings with them, when you are faced with real people (who may be having a bad day, may not know what they want etc), you may have to give a presentation without any guidelines on what is wanted, you'll have to pitch up to an address and then be in a room with a computer you've never seen before to give a presentation to win the contract etc.

    Even if you are a junior in a team, you can significantly impact business from day 1 and if you can't operate with a reasonable degree of independence, you aren't a safe hire. That's bog standard for professional life, and at the point of recruitment, school leavers and graduates have to be able to demonstrate they can step up.

    You get that more general experience by getting out and doing things outside the schedules of school and uni, and it doesn;t much matter what it is.
    :ditto: You've actually summed up my main points here!

    In conclusion experience is extremely and definitely important to help you prepare for the working world. Sitting in a classroom taking lecture notes DOESN'T prepare you for that, hence why some students go for internships/work experience so that they can be able to handle whats 'thrown at them', and you're always up for any challenges that comes along the way.
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    (Original post by Boreism)
    :ditto: You've actually summed up my main points here!

    In conclusion experience is extremely and definitely important to help you prepare for the working world. Sitting in a classroom taking lecture notes DOESN'T prepare you for that, hence why some students go for internships/work experience so that they can be able to handle whats 'thrown at them', and you're always up for any challenges that comes along the way.
    I agree that experience is key, however, it's been hard to find experience within relevant areas. I worked in retail for about a year and there is no room for progress there. I've been trying to find internships for 3 months now, I applied to inspiring intern, intern avenue, GOV internship - yet I cant even get into that (even for free internships). I took part in a work development course in jan-feb. I need that experience within an office environment - yet these internship services have been terrible.
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    (Original post by tonystark)
    I agree that experience is key, however, it's been hard to find experience within relevant areas. I worked in retail for about a year and there is no room for progress there. I've been trying to find internships for 3 months now, I applied to inspiring intern, intern avenue, GOV internship - yet I cant even get into that (even for free internships). I took part in a work development course in jan-feb. I need that experience within an office environment - yet these internship services have been terrible.
    Not even volunteering?
    I had no trouble getting internships (working for free) when I first started job-hunting, volunteering and internships - maybe you've been approaching them wrong for example not asking them relevant questions??? You also need great enthusiasm about the job too as I have explained in one post about an intern I fired because of her lack of enthusiasm.
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    (Original post by Boreism)
    Not even volunteering?
    I had no trouble getting internships (working for free) when I first started job-hunting, volunteering and internships - maybe you've been approaching them wrong for example not asking them relevant questions??? You also need great enthusiasm about the job too as I have explained in one post about an intern I fired because of her lack of enthusiasm.
    I've been applying for paid and unpaid internships. I tailored my CV to the roles and was hoping I would get a chance. I honestly don't know why I cant even get an internship. I would pay them to give me a chance at an internship if I had the money.
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    (Original post by tonystark)
    I agree that experience is key, however, it's been hard to find experience within relevant areas. I worked in retail for about a year and there is no room for progress there. I've been trying to find internships for 3 months now, I applied to inspiring intern, intern avenue, GOV internship - yet I cant even get into that (even for free internships). I took part in a work development course in jan-feb. I need that experience within an office environment - yet these internship services have been terrible.
    But what do you mean by 'relevant'. And free internships - they are just a drain on resources for companies, they get nothing out of them, so why would they offer them unless a) the company has very high selection criteria and picks from excellence (IB, consulting etc) or b) it is very low end and is just trying to get a bit of free labour or PR (ie it's not an internship, just an appealing name for nothing useful).

    Just get out and do something! Start going to car boot sales and build up a stall (gives examples of determination, get up and go, financial skills, customer service, hard work etc). Commit to a sport and start playing it in local, regional etc competitions (focus, hard work, teamwork, organisation, competitive nature, determination etc), volunteer for things (teamwork, working with people different from self, social conscience, hard work, reliability etc). And they all bring stories and examples for interview.

    Don't just sit there and go the the standard list of connections you've got from the careers centre. Add to it by thinking laterally for yourself about your skills and your interests, and leverage something out of them.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    But what do you mean by 'relevant'. And free internships - they are just a drain on resources for companies, they get nothing out of them, so why would they offer them unless a) the company has very high selection criteria and picks from excellence (IB, consulting etc) or b) it is very low end and is just trying to get a bit of free labour or PR (ie it's not an internship, just an appealing name for nothing useful).

    Just get out and do something! Start going to car boot sales and build up a stall (gives examples of determination, get up and go, financial skills, customer service, hard work etc). Commit to a sport and start playing it in local, regional etc competitions (focus, hard work, teamwork, organisation, competitive nature, determination etc), volunteer for things (teamwork, working with people different from self, social conscience, hard work, reliability etc). And they all bring stories and examples for interview.

    Don't just sit there and go the the standard list of connections you've got from the careers centre. Add to it by thinking laterally for yourself about your skills and your interests, and leverage something out of them.
    I mean, I have volunteered to take surveys from businesses etc. Joined a work development programme that included building a virtual business and presenting it, presenting business articles, tours to companies like Fraklin Templeton and Foxtons etc

    It's not like i'm sitting on my ass doing nothing. But I do agree with you, I need to find more lateral methods to build my experience.

    Can I ask what was your graduate experience like, what steps you took etc would be very helpful
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    (Original post by tonystark)
    Can I ask what was your graduate experience like, what steps you took etc would be very helpful
    It wouldn't be any help at all. I knew what I wanted to do from the age of 15. I packed my teenage years with every activity I could, sports, cadets, just generally getting involved. I joined the organisation before I even graduated because I knew exactly what they were looking for and I made sure I had it all in spades.
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    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    It wouldn't be any help at all. I knew what I wanted to do from the age of 15. I packed my teenage years with every activity I could, sports, cadets, just generally getting involved. I joined the organisation before I even graduated because I knew exactly what they were looking for and I made sure I had it all in spades.
    Sounds awfully similar to me...


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    I think the graduates of last year that still haven't found work yet, or haven't secured a job for longer than three months, can no longer blame their course. There's a lot of things wrong with them generally, and they'll instantly deny those accusations, which is in itself another thing wrong with them.
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    I think the graduates of last year that still haven't found work yet, or haven't secured a job for longer than three months, can no longer blame their course. There's a lot of things wrong with them generally, and they'll instantly deny those accusations, which is in itself another thing wrong with them.
    It took one of my sister's in law's daughter exactly 1 year to find her first job after graduating with a Interior Design degree. But its not in her field though...a job in a warehouse to be exact.
    During that year before she got the job, she was waiting for someone to give her a job.
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    (Original post by stevey396)
    And that's exactly how it should be. I couldn't care less what level degree you have - BSc/BA, MSc/MA, PhD - no significant experience and you're going straight in the bin.
    i completely agree with you, i find work experience to be way more valuable and relevant to your future career than your degree (even if its the same subject).
 
 
 
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