Brexit: a Canadian's perspective Watch

EuanF
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#21
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#21
(Original post by lolatmaths)
If only we could prevent the elderly from voting. Remain would win by a landslide.
18-30, then 50-80 is the majority voting Brexit, the middle aged are those voting remain.
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EuanF
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#22
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#22
(Original post by caravaggio2)
it's like being offered a seat in the life boat but choosing to stay on the titanic.
omg yes the titanic is sinking but we can't fix it if we get off the titanic ??????!!?!?!
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1420787
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#23
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#23
(Original post by JezWeCan!)
A good deal less brutal than other Empires, (compare the supremacist Muslim Ottomans for example and their genocides involving millions of their subjects with our record over the same period) and on the whole we left the countries we colonised in a far better and more civilised states than we found them.

History will be kind to the British Empire, if not Britain itself.
Many empires committed atrocities, few managed to commit them on a industrial scale like the British Empire did. The slave trade? The bombing of civilians? Concentration camps?
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1420787
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#24
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#24
(Original post by EuanF)
18-30, then 50-80 is the majority voting Brexit, the middle aged are those voting remain.
Source?
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JezWeCan!
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#25
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#25
(Original post by offhegoes)
Many empires committed atrocities, few managed to commit them on a industrial scale like the British Empire did. The slave trade? The bombing of civilians? Concentration camps?
The Ottoman Empire had a slave trade over several centuries on an "industrial scale." Look it up.

It continued slavery long after we had peacefully banned it as well.

Millions of Christian boys were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam to fight for or serve the empire over the centuries, also.

I don't defend the bombing of civilians in WW2, but the Americans did far worse (they dropped atom bombs too) and compared to the atrocities against civilians committed by Germany, Japan and the Soviet Union, Britain was a paragon of moral virtue during that war.

Concentration camp is an emotive term, and not to be defended, but what happened in the Boer War was nothing like Auschwitz. You do know that right?

As I say the Ottoman Empire was far worse. Look up the Armenian genocide.

Then tell me why the British Empire was uniquely evil for its time. It wasn't. You are ill informed and wrong.
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paul514
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#26
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#26
(Original post by JezWeCan!)
The Ottoman Empire had a slave trade over several centuries on an "industrial scale." Look it up.

It continued slavery long after we had peacefully banned it as well.

Millions of Christian boys were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam to fight for or serve the empire over the centuries, also.

I don't defend the bombing of civilians in WW2, but the Americans did far worse (they dropped atom bombs too) and compared to the atrocities against civilians committed by Germany, Japan and the Soviet Union, Britain was a paragon of moral virtue during that war.

Concentration camp is an emotive term, and not to be defended, but what happened in the Boer War was nothing like Auschwitz. You do know that right?

As I say the Ottoman Empire was far worse. Look up the Armenian genocide.

Then tell me why the British Empire was uniquely evil for its time. It wasn't. You are ill informed and wrong.
So much win


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JezWeCan!
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#27
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#27
(Original post by paul514)
So much win


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Come again?
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Betelgeuse-
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#28
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#28
(Original post by TaintedLight)
... the OP has said nothing and yet people are here saying "agree" :laugh:



translation: bla bla bla bla SOVERGNITY!!! bla bla bla UNDEMOCRATIC!!! bla bla bla LEAVE!!!
Here is a person who understands NOTHING of democracy or sovereignty

Imagine this guy back in 1939... Blaa blaa blaa Hitler bla bla bla ... who cares the guy is better than Chamberlain bla bla blaa German beer is great
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Betelgeuse-
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Maker)
If we could only prevent xenophobes from voting, there will be no one voting brexit.
Yes yes its a burgeoning dislike for foreign people, not the disastrous impact these people have on services and housing when they move here. Nothing to do with being dictated to by unelected, irremovable greedy bureaucrats bleeding our debt ridden coffers drive
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1420787
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#30
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#30
(Original post by JezWeCan!)
I don't defend the bombing of civilians in WW2, but the Americans did far worse (they dropped atom bombs too) and compared to the atrocities against civilians committed by Germany, Japan and the Soviet Union, Britain was a paragon of moral virtue during that war.
Britain was bombing civilians well before WW2, as an effective means of "pacifying the natives" in troublesome colonies. The history of bombing is convoluted, but Britain could certainly be put forward as a pioneer of it, especially where civilians are concerned.

I'm well aware that civilian bombing was carried out by all the major players in WW2, and would never try to defend the use of nuclear weapons, but I think suggesting Britain was a relative "paragon of moral virtue" is stretching it a little...

Concentration camp is an emotive term, and not to be defended, but what happened in the Boer War was nothing like Auschwitz. You do know that right?
Yes, of course it was different. I didn't say otherwise. But the my use of "concentration camp" was correct and I didn't feel the need to tailor my words to cater for you finding the words too emotive.

As I say the Ottoman Empire was far worse. Look up the Armenian genocide.

Then tell me why the British Empire was uniquely evil for its time. It wasn't. You are ill informed and wrong.
I haven't said the Ottoman Empire wasn't worse. I haven't said that the British Empire was uniquely evil. It was just regular evil.

And as for "ill-informed and wrong"? When I present you with incorrect information and demonstrate that I did not know things one might expect me to know, I will pay attention to you calling me "ill-informed". When this turns into an objective argument with clearly defined measures of whose argument is right or wrong, I'll pay attention to you calling me "wrong".

Until then I'll ignore such superfluous non sequiturs.
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JezWeCan!
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#31
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#31
(Original post by offhegoes)
I'll ignore such superfluous non sequiturs.
Ha ha ha! Aren't all non sequiturs superfluous?

Except they weren't. They "sequitured" quite logically from what preceded..
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1420787
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#32
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#32
(Original post by JezWeCan!)
Ha ha ha! Aren't all non sequiturs superfluous?

Except they weren't. They "sequitured" quite logically from what preceded..
So where did I give incorrect information, in order for me to be wrong? Where did I display a lack of knowledge, in order to be ill-informed?

Looking forward to a counter to my points.
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Maker
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Betelgeuse-)
Yes yes its a burgeoning dislike for foreign people, not the disastrous impact these people have on services and housing when they move here. Nothing to do with being dictated to by unelected, irremovable greedy bureaucrats bleeding our debt ridden coffers drive
You want to elect the people who issues passports and collects taxes?
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Betelgeuse-
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Maker)
You want to elect the people who issues passports and collects taxes?
I want to elect people whom are accountable and who the public vote for and whom can remove
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Jammy Duel
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#35
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#35
(Original post by EuanF)
18-30, then 50-80 is the majority voting Brexit, the middle aged are those voting remain.
You don't get more peo remain than 18-30...
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TaintedLight
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Betelgeuse-)
Here is a person who understands NOTHING of democracy or sovereignty

Imagine this guy back in 1939... Blaa blaa blaa Hitler bla bla bla ... who cares the guy is better than Chamberlain bla bla blaa German beer is great
So there really are people who would equate EU to Nazi Germany :laugh:
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Rorschach II
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#37
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#37
(Original post by TaintedLight)
... the OP has said nothing and yet people are here saying "agree" :laugh:



translation: bla bla bla bla SOVERGNITY!!! bla bla bla UNDEMOCRATIC!!! bla bla bla LEAVE!!!
But it is undemocratic, you fool.

We elect / vote in people (MPs) who can vote for/against / propose legislation in the House of Commons (UK).

We elect / vote in people (MEPs) who can not propose, appeal or amend legislation in the European Parliament (EU).


You lose me as to why you'd sacrifice your democracy for something with little economic benefits.

And here are the economic reasons as to why we should leave...
  1. We pay an EU Membership fee of £55 million a day. Half of this is invested into things in the UK, but we don't even get to decide how that is spent.
  2. Because we are subjected to a Customs Union, we can't make free trade deals with the biggest economies like United States, China and Japan.
  3. In this Customs Union there's the Common External Tariff. This is a 33% tariff on foreign agriculture goods. This was created to drive down competition between EU farmers and farmers in third world countries by disinclining businesses in the EU to source from them. (1) This stalls the development of many third world countries. Cruel right? (2) This however is also a disadvantage to us because it also drives up the food prices, so the cost of food is higher in the UK than in for example the USA. (3) This also creates regional monopolies in agriculture.
  4. In the Custom Unions there are quotas not to go over for food production in countries, namely the food production for fisheries. Any excess fish for example, is dumped, DUMPED. Not just a fine, but the food is wasted, especially when they could just input it into the market and drive down respective fish prices, and issue a hefty fine, or just give it to the 800 million people who go hungry around the world (making their part to reduce that problem.)
  5. The EU taxes carbon emissions. Sounds like a good thing, right? Well it isn't, because it doesn't rectify the problem. Energy prices increase, which drives business away to other countries. So end result is jobless people in the UK (increased unemployment) and no carbon emission reduction (they've only relocated to a different country not under EU taxation.)
The decrease in living costs and the increase in wages benefits everyone.
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JezWeCan!
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#38
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#38
(Original post by offhegoes)
So where did I give incorrect information, in order for me to be wrong? Where did I display a lack of knowledge, in order to be ill-informed?

Looking forward to a counter to my points.
You earlier posts revealed that you knew little, (if anything frankly) about the dreadful history of the Ottoman Empire. You will deny it, obviously, but we both know this is true.

As to being wrong, you admitted it, in effect, when you finally conceded that the Ottomans were worse than us. That was my whole point.
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Rorschach II
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#39
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#39
(Original post by JezWeCan!)
The Ottoman Empire had a slave trade over several centuries on an "industrial scale." Look it up.

It continued slavery long after we had peacefully banned it as well.

Millions of Christian boys were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam to fight for or serve the empire over the centuries, also.

I don't defend the bombing of civilians in WW2, but the Americans did far worse (they dropped atom bombs too) and compared to the atrocities against civilians committed by Germany, Japan and the Soviet Union, Britain was a paragon of moral virtue during that war.

Concentration camp is an emotive term, and not to be defended, but what happened in the Boer War was nothing like Auschwitz. You do know that right?

As I say the Ottoman Empire was far worse. Look up the Armenian genocide.

Then tell me why the British Empire was uniquely evil for its time. It wasn't. You are ill informed and wrong.
PRSOM for this.

Best said.
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1420787
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#40
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#40
(Original post by JezWeCan!)
You earlier posts revealed that you knew little, (if anything frankly) about the dreadful history of the Ottoman Empire. You will deny it, obviously, but we both know this is true.
I'm having to repeat myself here. Not in order to restate points that you have argued in some manner against, which I try to avoid doing. But to draw your attention to things I've said, or not said, that you seem to be ignoring utterly. I never said that the British Empire was worse than the Ottoman Empire. I'm not interested in a game of "whose empire was most terrible". I didn't give a detailed history of the Ottoman Empire because that wasn't in any way part of the point I wished to discuss. That doesn't betray any kind of ignorance in the same way you not talking about the Roman Empire doesn't mean you are ill-informed on the matter.

As to being wrong, you admitted it, in effect, when you finally conceded that the Ottomans were worse than us. That was my whole point.
No, I haven't said that at all. Feel free to browse our exchanges and refresh your memory.
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