B981 - Homes and Honour Bill 2016 Watch

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TheDefiniteArticle
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#21
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#21
(Original post by PetrosAC)
As a Liberal, I'd use Kant's argument of "equal moral worth" so I can agree without coming across as a commie
well yes, it's essentially the starting point of a lot of consequentialism
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Wellzi
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#22
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#22
(Original post by DMcGovern)
Although I do understand the idea for this Bill and in part sympathise with it as a foreigner (which is why I agreed to second it), I will not be supporting this Bill for political and social reasons, mainly because of the issues of homelessness, equality and encouraging militarism.
I'm surprised you don't see the hypocrisy of supporting the IRA, yet criticising militarism.
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Aph
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#23
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#23
I hope members reject this bill as former military personnel don't deserve more help than anyone else IMO.
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Hazzer1998
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Aph)
I hope members reject this bill as former military personnel don't deserve more help than anyone else IMO.
Your total lack of respect Disgusts me ...... Take your communist approach that everyone is equal else where
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Aph
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#25
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#25
(Original post by hazzer1998)
Your total lack of respect Disgusts me ...... Take your communist approach that everyone is equal else where
Emotive arguments have no place in politics.
Also you haven't attacked anyone else for not supporting this bill
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barnetlad
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#26
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#26
I think you need to define where an ex-veteran's home area should be. I doubt if it is necessarily that nearest to the last military home they lived in.
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Quamquam123
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#27
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#27
RayApparently - you can't see all the seconders. You might just need to slightly tweak the formatting.
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PetrosAC
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#28
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#28
(Original post by hazzer1998)
Your total lack of respect Disgusts me ...... Take your communist approach that everyone is equal else where
It's not a total lack of respect. It's called dealing with the issue for everyone, not just for some. Fighting for your country is great and soldiers earn by upmost respect but it doesn't suddenly make them better than anyone else. Everyone has the same potential so should be given the same platform to try to reach that potential.

It is disgusting that we have anyone at all living on the streets.


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GaelicBolshevik
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Wellzi)
I'm surprised you don't see the hypocrisy of supporting the IRA, yet criticising militarism.
Supporting the old IRA and sympathising with the Provisionals and INLA's ideology has nothing to do with militarism. This is about your state's soldiers. Fighting for your country is admirable and soldiers earn respect but it doesn't suddenly make them better than anyone else. I also question this, however, when they sign up to fight in conflicts where it is questionable that the intervention is not fuelled by selfish interests, e.g. Afghanistan.

That was a cheap shot and a stupid one to make.
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Hazzer1998
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#30
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#30
(Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
Nay. To each, according to his need is a sound, fundamental principle. Ex-military men have no greater need than other homeless people, nor is their career more praiseworthy than many other careers (indeed, I'd argue that teachers and doctors are far more praiseworthy).
Mind telling us how many teachers and doctors have died for their country ?
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Snufkin
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#31
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#31
Veterans deserve no special treatment. We need to deal with homelessness, but I don't agree with targeting resources and time at certain people.

(Original post by hazzer1998)
Mind telling us how many teachers and doctors have died for their country ?
Not relevant. Servicemen know the risks, nobody forces them to do the job - they do it because they enjoy it. They aren't heroes.
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Jammy Duel
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Snufkin)
Veterans deserve no special treatment. We need to deal with homelessness, but I don't agree with targeting resources and time at certain people.



Not relevant. Servicemen know the risks, nobody forces them to do the job - they do it because they enjoy it. They aren't heroes.
Try telling that to your grandparents, if they're still alive. Or actually a lot of the people who have been in the forces recently. Yesterday marked 75 years since the sinking of HMS Hood with all souls bar 3 lost; how many of those do you think enjoyed it? Particularly wanted to be there? Chose to be there? On the other hand, how many do you think were there because it was part of their duty, or they were pressured by the community, or were simply drafted?

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Snufkin
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Try telling that to your grandparents, if they're still alive. Or actually a lot of the people who have been in the forces recently. Yesterday marked 75 years since the sinking of HMS Hood with all souls bar 3 lost; how many of those do you think enjoyed it? Particularly wanted to be there? Chose to be there? On the other hand, how many do you think were there because it was part of their duty, or they were pressured by the community, or were simply drafted?

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How many WW2 veterans are homeless?
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TheDefiniteArticle
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#34
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#34
(Original post by hazzer1998)
Mind telling us how many teachers and doctors have died for their country ?
Irrelevant. Lots of miners died in the line of duty; yet you don't advocate giving priority to the survivors there, do you?
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Jammy Duel
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Snufkin)
How many WW2 veterans are homeless?
Who knows, probably not many because I expect most of those couldn't survive long, but you still make massive assumptions about those who serve, if it's so enjoyable why do so many say it's the worst decision they ever made?
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Snufkin
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Who knows, probably not many because I expect most of those couldn't survive long, but you still make massive assumptions about those who serve, if it's so enjoyable why do so many say it's the worst decision they ever made?
I don't care if they regret it, they still chose to do it with their eyes open - presumably because they thought they'd enjoy it. I have family in the forces, for the most part they LOVE their jobs and wouldn't do anything else. They don't think they're heroes or deserving of special treatment so why do you?
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RayApparently
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#37
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#37
(Original post by joecphillips)
I don't believe we have yet but I could be drawn to back it but first I will have to look deeper into the overall problem before I back just helping one group.

Is there anything in particular you think I should look at to show that we have tackled the problem?
As your party leader says - check his work from the last parliament as Home Secretary.
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Hazzer1998
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#38
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#38
(Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
Irrelevant. Lots of miners died in the line of duty; yet you don't advocate giving priority to the survivors there, do you?
Yes i do

If there is a ex serviceman and a migrant i would say the serviceman deserves it more
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TheDefiniteArticle
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#39
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#39
(Original post by hazzer1998)
Yes i do

If there is a ex serviceman and a migrant i would say the serviceman deserves it more
How the hell do you read 'miner' as 'migrant'?
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Wellzi
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#40
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#40
(Original post by DMcGovern)
Supporting the old IRA and sympathising with the Provisionals and INLA's ideology has nothing to do with militarism. This is about your state's soldiers. Fighting for your country is admirable and soldiers earn respect but it doesn't suddenly make them better than anyone else. I also question this, however, when they sign up to fight in conflicts where it is questionable that the intervention is not fuelled by selfish interests, e.g. Afghanistan.

That was a cheap shot and a stupid one to make.
Just pointing out that support for militarism and insurgency are equally justifiable
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