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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    This. I honestly can't see it being £3.5bn
    It seems way too low. I mean, the IFS worked out that RL Labour's 2015 GE policy of reducing the fee cap to £6000 would cost ceteris paribus, approximately £3.2bn. I'm inclined to believe the calculations are wrong by at least a couple billion pounds which isn't exactly a non-trivial mistake.
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    (Original post by The Financier)
    It seems way too low. I mean, the IFS worked out that RL Labour's 2005 GE policy of reducing the fee cap to £6000 would cost £3.2bn. I'm inclined to believe the calculations are wrong by at least a couple billion pounds which isn't exactly a non-trivial mistake.
    Indeed.

    For that reason, it'll be a Nay. I'd love to lower Tuition Fees, but we need to know how much it'll cost. I also don't think they need to be reduced all the way to £3,500 given that you don't have to pay them back until you're earning over £21,000 a year anyway. This just lets people earning enough money pay less.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Indeed.

    For that reason, it'll be a Nay. I'd love to lower Tuition Fees, but we need to know how much it'll cost. I also don't think they need to be reduced all the way to £3,500 given that you don't have to pay them back until you're earning over £21,000 a year anyway. This just lets people earning enough money pay less.
    I'm genuinely sorry for this...


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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I'm genuinely sorry for this...


    Oh god xD

    I pledged to lower them to £6000 I'll have you know

    Come back to me with correct costings and fees at £6000 and then you'll get an Aye.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Oh god xD

    I pledged to lower them to £6000 I'll have you know
    The way you phrased your post was just too perfect, sorry.

    Will the government be doing that? Or is Lp Osborning you?
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    The way you phrased your post was just too perfect, sorry.

    Will the government be doing that? Or is Lp Osborning you?
    It's something we're looking into at the moment. The costing is important. I intend to get it done though
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    It's something we're looking into at the moment. The costing is important. I intend to get it done though
    Fair enough.
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    Nay.

    There are better tuition fee systems that we could have but simply cutting £6k off the current price is not one of them and largely pointless unless your plan is to please the upper middle classes who currently have to fork out or please the students who actually see the current system as a disincentive (frankly, they are idiots and should not be at university anyway).
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    No - I have no problem with the current system which expects people to pay for that privilege of bettering their education and by doing so, earn more than others without degrees. In addition, I take issue with the notes - I leave the finances to others best placed to deal with those matters. However, let's take the issue of students being put off from going to university. Where is the evidence to support such an assertion? In fact, the statistics show that student numbers in the previous UCAS cycle have risen to an all-time high. Sources here , here, and here, but let me quote some specific figures:

    (Original post by UCAS End of Cycle Report)
    Our End of Cycle report evidences another record year for UK higher education with 532,300
    students starting their studies in 2015.

    NB The report admits that student numbers will fall in 2016-20, but this is due to a smaller amount of births in these years compared to 2015.
    (Original post by UCAS Summary of End of Cycle Report)
    A total of 532,300 people entered UK higher education in 2015, an underlying increase of 3.1% (16,100) on last year and the highest number recorded, UCAS’ End of Cycle Report reveals today.
    A total of 532,300 people entered UK higher education in 2015, an underlying increase of 3.1% (16,100) on last year and the highest number recorded, UCAS’ End of Cycle Report reveals today.

    Most accepted students are from the UK (463,700), an underlying increase of 2.8% and the highest number placed by UCAS. Acceptances from other EU countries rose by 11% to 29,300, and 39,000 students were accepted from outside the EU, an increase of just 1.9%.

    Young people in England became 3% more likely to enter higher education and this, plus a one-year uptick of 2% in the 18 year old population has pushed the number of UK 18 year olds placed up 5% to a record 235,400.

    Universities made a record 1.9 million offers to students and more applicants than ever before got into their first ‘firm’ choice (384,100). The acceptance rate (the proportion of applicants placed) increased by 0.9% to 74.1%, with increases for UK applicants of all ages. In total 718,500 people applied.
    (Original post by Telegraph Article on UCAS Report)
    In total, 592,290 applications were submitted to the January 15th Ucas deadline, almost 10,000 more than the previous record, set in 2011, just before the rise in tuition fees.
    Breaking down the figures, applications from the EU have risen by 7 per cent, while those from outside the EU have also gone up by 3 per cent overall.
    Despite the fact that applications from prospective students in the UK have only risen by 1 per cent, Ucas submissions by 18 year olds in all UK countries are now at their highest ever levels.
    Further analysis of the figures reveals that young people from the UK's most disadvantaged areas are now more likely than ever to apply to higher education.
    Hence, your assertion that the fee increase has put students off going to university is simply wrong. Furthermore, I take issue with the following statement:

    Every student should be given the opportunity to go to university and finance shouldn't get in the way of that. At the moment, university students have to pay up to £9,000 a year on tuition alone. On top of this, students will have to pay for living costs which can be up to £7,750 in some areas. In addition to this, students may also have to pay for other necessities such as transport and food. Previously, some students were entitled to government subsidies but these have now been scrapped, leaving many students deep in debt.
    The bit in bold is highly misleading - no student (with the exception of those who already have degrees or previously studied for one) has to pay the £9000 upfront and your notes suggest that they do. If anything, it is that kind of ill-informed scaremongering that would put people off going to university (which it doesn't as shown above).

    In short, the aims of this Bill, while admirable, are, in my opinion, wrong and based on ill-informed preconceptions of a system which the author of this Bill clearly does not understand. The statistics demonstrate that student numbers continue to rise in spite of the fees increase, suggesting that they were never an issue for most students who see it as fair that they shoulder the burden for their education via these fees. I urge others to vote no and reject a piece of legislation which is based on very little research and solid fact.
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    I'd also note that if you're going to use Scotland in your justification, it is only fair to point out that the Sutton Trust found a few days ago that Scottish students from poorer backgrounds are four times less likely to attend university than those with wealthier backgrounds, the gap being the highest in the UK. I don't see any evidence that this proposal will increase access for the poorest over the existing system at all.
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    How about no, especially given there isn't the reintroduction of capped numbers. It is simply unsustainable.
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    I assume it's £3.5k per year?

    Either way, I'll probably say nay because you really don't need to worry about this loan, the majority of people don't even pay the full loan from what I've heard. The amount paid back monthly could be reduced but I really don't see much point in this.

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    Tuition fees do not inhibit students from going to uni as they are in effect more akin to graduate tax, and so this bill would do nothing to improve student access to uni, which the notes cite as the main purpose of the bill.

    So logically it's a nay.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Ummm you know the student loan doesn't act as debt at all right? It's a graduate tax in all but name and the fact that it can be paid off.
    Also this would not result in lower repayments either...
    Oh I wish it was a graduate tax, that would mean I wouldn't have to pay it considering I am most likely going to fail (again).

    No, what it is is an income tax that only applies to young people (who haven't got rich parents to pay their tuition) considering that due to the interest payments, you will only actually start to pay back the debt if you are earning over £40k, and in the future 99% of people earning over £40k will have gone to university. It's classic tory bs, too afraid to raise income tax so bring in a bs system that only taxes the young. The fact that Nick Clegg even had the audacity to defend this as a graduate tax (surely all graduates would pay a graduate tax, not just the new ones) is what truly turned me off him.
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    Aye, I am not against tuition fees but the opportunity cost is large, if my parents will save money with tuition fees being lowered that money could be spent on other things. Individuals from lower socio-economic backgrounds constantly receive handouts from the government, it is time individuals from higher socio-economic backgrounds are given indirect handouts by increasing the disposable income of individuals from higher socio-economic backgrounds.
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    I assume it's £3.5k per year?

    Either way, I'll probably say nay because you really don't need to worry about this loan, the majority of people don't even pay the full loan from what I've heard. The amount paid back monthly could be reduced but I really don't see much point in this.

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    This is pretty much true due to the interest rates, but I fail to see why people consider this a good thing, this just means you're paying an income tax 9% higher than your parents on the same wage with the same degree. It's time for the older generations to take responsibility for the poor political choices that have been made over the last 40 years that has led to this situation rather than dealing with previous overpsending by shifting the burden on to the young. I say this as someone who fully expects to be a high earner in the future, I am more than happy to pay a higher rate of tax, I just think it should be shared by everyone.

    As for a couple other reasons why charging extortionate fees for education is bad:
    - education is a collective good, not just for the individual, helping to boost our economy in the long run.
    - the high fees mean there is a certain level of commitment made when you choose a course. If you later realise that the choice of course was wrong, after committing so much money you feel obligated to try and finish it regardless. Speaking from personal experience right there. £9,000 a year fees make changing course part way through very difficult.
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    (Original post by cBay)
    This is pretty much true due to the interest rates, but I fail to see why people consider this a good thing, this just means you're paying an income tax 9% higher than your parents on the same wage with the same degree. It's time for the older generations to take responsibility for the poor political choices that have been made over the last 40 years that has led to this situation rather than dealing with previous overpsending by shifting the burden on to the young. I say this as someone who fully expects to be a high earner in the future, I am more than happy to pay a higher rate of tax, I just think it should be shared by everyone.

    As for a couple other reasons why charging extortionate fees for education is bad:
    - education is a collective good, not just for the individual, helping to boost our economy in the long run.
    - the high fees mean there is a certain level of commitment made when you choose a course. If you later realise that the choice of course was wrong, after committing so much money you feel obligated to try and finish it regardless. Speaking from personal experience right there. £9,000 a year fees make changing course part way through very difficult.
    I agree, I just don't understand why students make a big deal about the loan - my only problem is that the maintenance loan ain't big enough
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    (Original post by BenC1997)
    Why is this necessary when you do not have to start paying back your tuition fee until you are earning (I believe) £21,000 per year.

    I am not attacking the bill per se, I am genuinely interested. At the moment I'm just not entirely sure of the point, people are not priced out of going to university.
    It is necessary as when you do start paying it back it's a burden.
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    (Original post by nabillio)
    It is necessary as when you do start paying it back it's a burden.
    Is 9% on over 21k really such a burden?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Is 9% on over 21k really such a burden?

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    it is when you have just started working and are trying to find accommodation. And that £2,000 could go vey far for paying bills, mortgages or buying a car.
 
 
 
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