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My Flatmate Didn't Know That Sex With A Drunk Girl Is Rape Watch

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    If I remember rightly (and I may be wrong)
    there was a case where a judge commented that a man being drunk, no matter how drunk, is no excuse for incorrectly thinking she was giving consent.
    Basically when she is drunk in this situation she doesn't carry responsibility to ensure he is consenting ( to my knowledge ones never been convicted) whereas when he is drunk, no matter how drunk, he still carries responsibility ensure she is consenting.
    I don't know if this led to case law.
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    If I remember rightly (and I may be wrong)
    there was a case where a judge commented that a man being drunk, no matter how drunk, is no excuse for incorrectly thinking she was giving consent.
    Basically when she is drunk in this situation she doesn't carry responsibility to ensure he is consenting ( to my knowledge ones never been convicted) whereas when he is drunk, no matter how drunk, he still carries responsibility ensure she is consenting.
    I don't know if this led to case law.
    If that case existed it'll be case law - I hope ruled bad law by this point.

    Someone quoted the Sexual Offences Act earlier and the fact the penetration has to be by a 'penis' shows the laws outlook on rape. Forced envelopment should equally qualify but does not.

    As for drunken states, people still possess the ability to consent - never mind the obvious question as to if they are both drunk (assuming a woman can rape a man with the same legal standing) then who raped who? If alcohol mitigates free choice as assumed then can rapists who actually objectively commit a rape be let off on the basis of they cannot be seen to be in control due to the influence of alcohol? That is the flip side of assuming alcohol mitigates personal choice. I've been drunk many times, I've never punched someone for no reason nor committed a sexual offence because regardless of the level of intoxication as I still have self control. Drinking to the point you cannot make sensible choices is not responsible and it is not down to someone else to deal with the consequences of bad decisions freely made under a level of intoxication the person chose to be at.
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    If she cant give consent, because she is drunk, its rape. Why would you want to have sex with someone who can't give consent? 9
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    The fact that the other of the two is drunk doesn't mean one is guilty of rape.

    Firstly, one must be totally wasted for consent not to count.

    Secondly, the person "raping" must actually be either intending or reckless as to whether the "victim consented".

    It's nowhere near "rape" on the drink alone.

    Also, the UCL "smart" thing only works for some courses, so wouldn't count on it on its own :P

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    Wouldn't specify it as rape but probably taking advantage of someone under the influence who can't make rational decisions.


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    (Original post by Truths)
    I see none of those terms used in the definition of consent. Drunk means to have your mental faculties and capacity temporarily impaired. You can not consent while drunk.

    You are literally a moron.
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    (Original post by Normaleila)
    If she cant give consent, because she is drunk, its rape. Why would you want to have sex with someone who can't give consent? 9
    Where does it end, then? By the logic that being intoxicated means a loss of rationality and therefore ability to consent, could I get drunk, go to a bank, get a loan, sign the contract, get the money and then say the contract is null and I therefore in law owe nothing back, because I couldn't legally consent to anything at the time the contract was signed because I was drunk? Not gonna wash in court. Likewise, if your partner got drunk and cheated on you, that surely wouldn't count as cheating because they were technically raped, right?

    This whole "you can't consent to anything if you're drunk" nonsense is a gateway to a culture of irresponsibility surrounding alcohol. Consent is consent, it applies to more than just sex. You don't totally lose the ability to make an informed decision just because you're intoxicated.
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    (Original post by Normaleila)
    If she cant give consent, because she is drunk, its rape. Why would you want to have sex with someone who can't give consent? 9
    Of course you wouldn't, but what point is unable to give consent? I have seen some on forums saying one drink.
    So...
    1 drink. - Getting chilled more likely to laugh at your crappy jokes
    2 drinks - Starts to talk more comes out of herself and is more likely to join in by cracking her own crappy jokes. No slurred speech
    3 drinks - responding to arm touching by touching back. No slurrred speech.
    4 drinks - walking fine, speech a little slurred but talking clearly.
    5 drinks a little unsteady on her feet but can walk fine. Speech more slurred but can cold conversation.
    6 drinks - Staggering a bit , having trouble standing up, speech slurred having trouble following a conversation.
    7 drinks - Can't walk unaided, not talking.
    8 drinks - Passed out.
    At what point is she not capable of giving meaningful consent?
    Bear in mind he is drinking the same amount and is at a similar point of intoxication.
    Remember 2 drinks are where they would fail a breathelizer test.
    It's 8:00am Saturday morning. I wonder how many tens of thousands of people, women and men, are waking up this morning happily with their rapist or sexual assaulter, according to the definition set by Truths.( the poster above) swapping numbers and arranging to meet again?
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    (Original post by Truths)
    He's smart enough to go to UCL yet thinks that if she she goes to a party and gets drunk that automatically means she wants to get ****ed. How does that work? :call2:
    You're not very smart because you seem to be talking from the point of view that the law is the absolute truth. This is the same law that change from black to white over a period of time e.g. Supports slavery one year then supports discrimination against whites the next.

    How can you make statement that include what "she wants" as determined by laws. Laws don't determine what people want. They are trying to tell other people what to believe someone wanted. There's a difference here between perception and reality.

    Of course a law that says a consenting person did not consent because they were drunk and that only applies to females is an unjust law. Probably the kind of law that was driven from the cultural Marxist sewer through ideas like feminism.

    If you're still not convinced that the law is an ass think about the fact that for 10 years Asian grooming and abuse of young people in places like Rotherham was allowed in the UK because authorities didn't want to tackle it and be called racist, and at the time arresting people who had consensual sex (white males probably always) because the judge is pandering to the social justice warrior.
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    (Original post by Normaleila)
    If she cant give consent, because she is drunk, its rape. Why would you want to have sex with someone who can't give consent? 9
    That's a ridiculous argument. What if a drunk boy and a drunk girl have sex consensually. The boy stands to get his life ruined. And it's only the boy who is at fault. He doesn't mater in this because it's all about cultural Marxist political value, the female is it higher political value that the male (like black over white or gay over straight).

    Many people making these laws need to be sacked in the anti-cultural Marxist sweep that is taking place.


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    Truths,
    When you get a chance, where on my 1 to 8 drinks scale (post#28) would you say she is now incapable so sex at that point would be rape/sexual assault?
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    You are literally a moron.
    And does herself no favours whatsoever with those gifs. It's a forum not ****ing Tumblr.
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    (Original post by Inexorably)
    You know you can still make conscious, rational decisions when drunk right....
    Would you say the driving limit is the limit for consent too? If not, how much more?
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    (Original post by life.of.pablo)
    Well if the girls up for it, even if she is drunk, it isn't rape.
    Yes it is, because she's in no fit state to make that sort of decision. Any respectable person would know this and not have sex with her.
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    (Original post by SMEGGGY)
    Haha

    I agree. Just because she's drunk don't mean it is rape as long as she's CONSENTING by saying hey **** me or does not say STOP etc.

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    I feel I have a duty to inform you that someone not saying stop does not mean they're consenting

    (Original post by sek510i)
    Section One of the Sexual Offenses Act;

    ''
    A person (A) commits an offence if—
    (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
    (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
    (c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

    (2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.

    (3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.

    (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life''



    I'm not entirely sure what would happen if neither party were sober enough to legally consent. It would quite possibly be ruled to be ''Not in the public interest'' by the Crown Prosecution Service before it got to court, though.
    Let's be realistic, if both were too drunk, the man would be the one prosecuted so long as there was evidence and the woman made a complaint.

    (Original post by Truths)
    I see none of those terms used in the definition of consent. Drunk means to have your mental faculties and capacity temporarily impaired. You can not consent while drunk.

    Well the courts of England and Wales disagree.


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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    Where does it end, then? By the logic that being intoxicated means a loss of rationality and therefore ability to consent, could I get drunk, go to a bank, get a loan, sign the contract, get the money and then say the contract is null and I therefore in law owe nothing back, because I couldn't legally consent to anything at the time the contract was signed because I was drunk? Not gonna wash in court. Likewise, if your partner got drunk and cheated on you, that surely wouldn't count as cheating because they were technically raped, right?

    This whole "you can't consent to anything if you're drunk" nonsense is a gateway to a culture of irresponsibility surrounding alcohol. Consent is consent, it applies to more than just sex. You don't totally lose the ability to make an informed decision just because you're intoxicated.
    As for the loan part, there's a possibility a court could find the contract voidable.

    I agree with you to be honest. If I get out of my mind drunk and punch someone then I'm responsible for my drunken actions but if someone goes out and gets smashed and is then penetrated by a penis they aren't responsible for their drunken actions. We need to either say that where someone is too drunk to consent they are also too drunk to be guilty of a crime or that intoxication does not remove any responsibility from you.

    In theory if a very drunk man buys a woman a drink then by accepting it that's theft yet if someone to a police station saying that they'd be laughed into the middle of next week



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    There is no such thing as 'taking advantage' of a girl. If a woman makes a voluntary decision to drink (haraam/shirk anyway) then she is fully aware of the consequences of doing so. If one wants to avoid any trouble its quite easy to avoid the pub/club scenario and stay home and study/be pure.
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    (Original post by MiracleLeaf)
    Yes it is, because she's in no fit state to make that sort of decision. Any respectable person would know this and not have sex with her.
    MiracleLeaf,
    Where on my list of1 to 8 above are you thinking she/he is drunk and so not fit to give consent?
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    (Original post by EastonUmmah)
    There is no such thing as 'taking advantage' of a girl. If a woman makes a voluntary decision to drink (haraam/shirk anyway) then she is fully aware of the consequences of doing so. If one wants to avoid any trouble its quite easy to avoid the pub/club scenario and stay home and study/be pure.

    There is such a thing as taking advantage of somebody. Anybody has a right to have a drink without getting raped.

    Or are you just trying to play devil's (or rapist's) advocate, or see how people react to that sort of inflammatory post?
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    I did not know this either.
    Are you meant to breathalyze them first?
    If so what is the limit?
 
 
 
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