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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    All the evidence to the contrary. There would not be so much exploitation without such a surplus in labour. You keep your workers happy if you would find it hard to replace them. Very very basic business practice.

    Given the level of exploitation can only happen with the surplus of labour the EU provides us, workers would be far more secure and better protected with our own UK laws and being valued by employees

    Your last point would be a good one in a vacuum but when the EU labour train (Is so heavily distorted to the rich countries) it directly causes the exploitation, it brings me back to my original point. The EU is bad for workers
    Equal pay, holiday leave, health and safety rules, anti discrimination.... these are all real rights the EU has given us which benefit people everyday.

    No amount of spin can change that.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Equal pay, holiday leave, health and safety rules, anti discrimination.... these are all real rights the EU has given us which benefit people everyday.

    No amount of spin can change that.
    Debunked by the guardian ffs. No spin is needed, it is flat out lies.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...workers-rights
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Debunked by the guardian ffs. No spin is needed, it is flat out lies.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...workers-rights
    I've already written at length about this on a few threads.

    Holiday leave - An EU right. The UK law before hand only applied to a few categories of workers. Repealed in part in 1970's and further watered down in 1990s. By 1997 there was no statutory provision til the EU stepped in. UK fought against this.

    The UK's holiday allowance is more generous - but only because we no longer include bank holidays. The UK did try and do this in order to have the bare minimum allowable.

    Equal Pay - EU mentioned this in the 50's. The Equal pay act passed before we joined the EEC but came into force after. By then a EU directive was in place and the UK law needed much reform to come up to standard.

    Maternity - We are more generous but the UK (in particular, Chris Graylin) who blocked EU moves to increase the provision of maternity pay. In any event, the EU has done much to protect the rights of pregnant workers - including protection from discrimination which would have been allowed under UK law.

    So that's a few. A number of rights protected by the EU have been targeted by previous governments. It is clear to see that without the EU, a lot of employment rights would be repealed or watered down.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I've already written at length about this on a few threads.

    Holiday leave - An EU right. The UK law before hand only applied to a few categories of workers. Repealed in part in 1970's and further watered down in 1990s. By 1997 there was no statutory provision til the EU stepped in. UK fought against this.

    The UK's holiday allowance is more generous - but only because we no longer include bank holidays. The UK did try and do this in order to have the bare minimum allowable.

    Equal Pay - EU mentioned this in the 50's. The Equal pay act passed before we joined the EEC but came into force after. By then a EU directive was in place and the UK law needed much reform to come up to standard.

    Maternity - We are more generous but the UK (in particular, Chris Graylin) who blocked EU moves to increase the provision of maternity pay. In any event, the EU has done much to protect the rights of pregnant workers - including protection from discrimination which would have been allowed under UK law.

    So that's a few. A number of rights protected by the EU have been targeted by previous governments. It is clear to see that without the EU, a lot of employment rights would be repealed or watered down.
    So the EU protects workers rights yet you freely admit THE UK already had these rights and even worse... our UK workers rights ARE BETTER AND STRONGER than the EU'S -

    Clear to see lots of rights will be repealed and watered down...? HOW IS THAT CLEAR TO SEE? Why havent the most disgusting brutal tory government we have now not already degraded these rights by making them far worse and in line with EU minimum requirements?

    Complete and utter baseless fear mongering to scare and control the ignorant
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Debunked by the guardian ffs. No spin is needed, it is flat out lies.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...workers-rights
    I'm not really sure how that article 'debunked' anything. Just because the UK has rights set above the minimum EU standard, are you saying that's a bad thing? I would also point out that the article makes a point of the UK having equal pay prior to joining the EU, but equal pay is one of the conditions to join the EU, which is part of the reason the equal pay act was introduced in the first place.


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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    So the EU protects workers rights yet you freely admit THE UK already had these rights and even worse... our UK workers rights ARE BETTER AND STRONGER than the EU'S -
    I don't think you read my post. I didn't say that at all.
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    (Original post by aoxa)
    I'm not really sure how that article 'debunked' anything. Just because the UK has rights set above the minimum EU standard, are you saying that's a bad thing? I would also point out that the article makes a point of the UK having equal pay prior to joining the EU, but equal pay is one of the conditions to join the EU, which is part of the reason the equal pay act was introduced in the first place.


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    Leaving the EU will cost workers their rights.. yet as the article states... we already have not only these laws but our laws ARE BETTER and stronger. Obviously thats a GOOD thing

    Imagine the UK has £7 minimum wage and EU has £5 minimum wage

    Its like arguing leaving the EU is bad for UK workers on the minimum wage.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    we already have not only these laws but our laws ARE BETTER and stronger. Obviously thats a GOOD thing
    Again, you're totally ignoring the facts here.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Again, you're totally ignoring the facts here.
    I am not understanding how? I dont see how you can argue leaving the EU is bad for workers rights and protections when we have already established that UK law has these rights and protections and are infact much more stringent and generous..?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I am not understanding how? I dont see how you can argue leaving the EU is bad for workers rights and protections when we have already established that UK law has these rights and protections and are infact much more stringent and generous..?
    We haven't established that. Here is what we can establish though:

    1) many worker's rights are a direct result of the EU. Many were not in place until the EU told us to act. For the rights we did already have, the EU improved them.

    2) in some cases, the UK offers more than the EU does. The EU doesn't set a maximum standard - just a minimum. That doesn't take away from the fact that it was the EU which established many of the employment rights we have. Also, in some situations, the UK has only offered better conditions begrudgingly.

    3) many employment rights, because they come from the EU, will be at risk if we leave the EU. Past governments have treated a lot of key rights with disdain. The whole Brexit movie was about deregulation.

    4) if we leave the EU, and the European Communities Act is torn up, legislation made under it is also repealed. It would be up to the government to say which laws stay - and those which don't will have to be established all over again. This allows for them to be watered down or got rid of altogether.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Leaving the EU will cost workers their rights.. yet as the article states... we already have not only these laws but our laws ARE BETTER and stronger. Obviously thats a GOOD thing

    Imagine the UK has £7 minimum wage and EU has £5 minimum wage

    Its like arguing leaving the EU is bad for UK workers on the minimum wage.
    So, how will leaving the EU cost workers their rights? The government isn't suddenly turn around and go 'yeah, we promised you £9 minimum wage by 2020, but now we're just going to get rid of that, and get rid of all your other workers rights too', because not only will this cost them votes, there would also be serious opposition to any decline in workers rights, and I seriously doubt the government is stupid enough to change workers rights for the worse, just because we left the EU.


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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    We haven't established that. Here is what we can establish though:

    1) many worker's rights are a direct result of the EU. Many were not in place until the EU told us to act. For the rights we did already have, the EU improved them.

    2) in some cases, the UK offers more than the EU does. The EU doesn't set a maximum standard - just a minimum. That doesn't take away from the fact that it was the EU which established many of the employment rights we have. Also, in some situations, the UK has only offered better conditions begrudgingly.

    3) many employment rights, because they come from the EU, will be at risk if we leave the EU. Past governments have treated a lot of key rights with disdain. The whole Brexit movie was about deregulation.

    4) if we leave the EU, and the European Communities Act is torn up, legislation made under it is also repealed. It would be up to the government to say which laws stay - and those which don't will have to be established all over again. This allows for them to be watered down or got rid of altogether.
    1) We have been in the EU 40 years and the world has progressed a lot, of course there are going to be some things the EU has come up with that are actually good. To make out like we would not have introduced them ourselves or that we would repeal these progressive protections because we decide to leave is crazy. We are leaving the EU.. Not time travelling backwards 40 years.

    2) Similar to one

    3) They won't. It is likely we will have to keep these in order to continue trading with EU. I know Norway in the EEA is bound by EU employment law as a condition for its trade agreements. Its a moot factor anyway because no government is going to be elected and allowed to strip away workers rights and
    protections.

    4) Again if they repealed all of these workers protections, they would be roundly turned on by the populace and booted out. Not a chance they commit political suicide
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    (Original post by aoxa)
    So, how will leaving the EU cost workers their rights? The government isn't suddenly turn around and go 'yeah, we promised you £9 minimum wage by 2020, but now we're just going to get rid of that, and get rid of all your other workers rights too', because not only will this cost them votes, there would also be serious opposition to any decline in workers rights, and I seriously doubt the government is stupid enough to change workers rights for the worse, just because we left the EU.


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    Dude we are on the same side..
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    (Original post by drogon)
    lose the sarcasm if you want to make an intelligent point
    Why ignore a post because its sarcastic. He's clearly being smart, you're just an ignorant lefty.

    Let me make an intelligent point.

    The EU pushes for Zero Hour contracts and also it barely enforces its own laws on Workers Rights unless youre a doctor or someone of high middle class standing.

    Poor people are undermined by this bureaucratic bloc called the European Union. Even their argicultural regulations help the Rich get Richer.

    It's a shock that Labour wants us to stay in, considering how much they adore the working class, but you have to think about this, why was Corbyn trying to protest against the EU for the past 20 years?
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    Not you and your IN vote Jeremy... Why the dramatic u turn? Compromised by your leadership position?
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    This thread just shows how many people don't bother reading the original post before replying.
 
 
 
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