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How would a #Brexit affect UK universities? Watch

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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Once again, this is showing income as a proportion of UK R&D, which is not of relevance to universities because universities are only a small proportion of UK R&D. As you can see, most of UK R&D is in the private sector. And no, given that France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Sweden and most of all Germany, all have very strong economies and all of them have higher science funding than the UK. If anything, the trend is that stronger economies have more science funding and the UK totally bucks that trend.
    If you tried reading the heading of figure it says sources, not recipients, with even the University specific funding having double the amount given by the EU given by the private sector, but once again we can nicely swing back the the thing that supporters of the EU in this area like to ignore, the whole Horizon 2020 not being EU exclusive. I've managed to find the Israeli figures (the EU itself seems to want to make it as difficult as possible for people to find the information they want). So, the Israeli economy is 10% of our own, their contributions to FP7, 535m euroes, about 10% of our own contribution, and received 840m out, again, about 10% of what we did, so much for being in the EU or being bust. But why stop there, you claim that our government is cutting funding? Well, this is something not unique to the UK, if you look at the FP7 link below the first result is from the royal society, and while the article itself cannot be found the section shown is sufficient, the FP7 budget was 107bn, I assume you know what the Horizon 2020 budget is? About two thirds of that, only 70bn, and that's before its coffers are raided because it's the first thing to be cut when money is needed elsewhere

    Israel: http://www.eccpalestine.org/israeli-...-horizon-2020/
    FP7: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uk...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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    (Original post by ODES_PDES)
    Universities in the UK educated generations and did some amazing research well before we joined the EU
    The world has changed and those international collaborations developed for a reason, not out of fun.

    (Original post by Wahrheit)
    I'm interested to know more about this. I can't see any particular advantage universities get from being in the EU. I don't really see how the EU helps with collaboration, Europe is Europe whether or not we are in the EU. Funding maybe, but that's just academics saying they like more funding, not a surprise, no different from them supported a political party in a general election which advocates more funding for universities. Idk, I'm ignorant of this so hopefully people can help convince me one way or the other for effect of leaving on universities.
    The thing is, those little things add up:
    1) You don't have to get visas, that allows the universities to spend more time on actually caring about research and not only about getting somewhere. Of course then one would prefer to hold a conference in the EU and not the UK, so that only the UK scientist need to apply and not all others. (Usually you have only a handful of people in a field in each country, so to meet colleagues you have to travel.) This will reduce the prestige of those universities.
    2) Less abilities to choose your PHD students, because funding opportunities a part from UK will be reduced, as well as for EU students coming over. This will simply diminish the number of possibilities, which is currently the aim and the strength of the UK.
    3) EU funding might seem not much, but to get prestigious projects in competition with other professors in other countries shows the strenght of a department and thus is able to attract further funding. (Also from politicians in your own country.)
    4) Some projects are too big to be financed by one country (unless you like a decreasing budget), talking there of e.g. ITER. Except the UK government wants to spent several hundred millions on his own (if we take a step back from e.g. ITER and talk about smaller projects), UK researchers would have less access to state of the art facilties in the UK, but would have to travel each time. Again, that decreases the attractivity of UK as a centre of research. (Thus also the indirect effects, as e.g. possibilities for UK researchers to do high level research in their home country and thus allowing the UK industry to be allways able to get young people out of university having worked on top level research project - unrelated to the budget of their parents -, have easy access and short ways, ...)
    5) Of course you can say, US and China are still cooperating with EU countries on research basis, but even the proudest Britain has to admit, that the UK competing with US and China for project cooperations (they will no more be able to say, we have to be included, because of EU) will most likely loose quite often.
    6) Academia today is becoming more and more international, a BREXIT won't stop that. Now the UK is very attractive, but will loose part of it, in case all the advantages the EU brings for academics will stop.
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    Less battling for places.
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    Is Simon autistic?
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    (Original post by Nathanielle)
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    You seriously bought the "you will need a visa"...

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    (Original post by Nathanielle)
    The world has changed and those international collaborations developed for a reason, not out of fun.


    The thing is, those little things add up:
    1) You don't have to get visas, that allows the universities to spend more time on actually caring about research and not only about getting somewhere. Of course then one would prefer to hold a conference in the EU and not the UK, so that only the UK scientist need to apply and not all others. (Usually you have only a handful of people in a field in each country, so to meet colleagues you have to travel.) This will reduce the prestige of those universities.
    2) Less abilities to choose your PHD students, because funding opportunities a part from UK will be reduced, as well as for EU students coming over. This will simply diminish the number of possibilities, which is currently the aim and the strength of the UK.
    3) EU funding might seem not much, but to get prestigious projects in competition with other professors in other countries shows the strenght of a department and thus is able to attract further funding. (Also from politicians in your own country.)
    4) Some projects are too big to be financed by one country (unless you like a decreasing budget), talking there of e.g. ITER. Except the UK government wants to spent several hundred millions on his own (if we take a step back from e.g. ITER and talk about smaller projects), UK researchers would have less access to state of the art facilties in the UK, but would have to travel each time. Again, that decreases the attractivity of UK as a centre of research. (Thus also the indirect effects, as e.g. possibilities for UK researchers to do high level research in their home country and thus allowing the UK industry to be allways able to get young people out of university having worked on top level research project - unrelated to the budget of their parents -, have easy access and short ways, ...)
    5) Of course you can say, US and China are still cooperating with EU countries on research basis, but even the proudest Britain has to admit, that the UK competing with US and China for project cooperations (they will no more be able to say, we have to be included, because of EU) will most likely loose quite often.
    6) Academia today is becoming more and more international, a BREXIT won't stop that. Now the UK is very attractive, but will loose part of it, in case all the advantages the EU brings for academics will stop.
    Some interesting points, would be extremely unlikely we would ever need a visa to travel anywhere in Europe though, even if we left. And from outside Europe it would be no harder to travel to the uk than anywhere else one Europe, so I don't think being in the EU makes any difference to travel. I think the thing which keeps talent at uk universities is a large part thanks to the fact we speak English here, and English is very much the language of academia.

    I think the main risks to academia come from it being potentially harder for people from the EU to get work in UK academia + reduced funding opportunities, but I'm sure there are people who would argue that, because we pump more money into the EU than what we get out, we could distribute the leftovers into academia if that was a priority of our academically elected government. I think more money in academia would be great, and I've disagreed with much our current government has done with education, but who's to say the next government won't want to pump billions into scientific research? But good points, enjoyed reading what you had to say.
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    Someone gonna start crying about how all those EU students are stealing their university offers...
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    (Original post by JohnGreek)
    Someone gonna start crying about how all those EU students are stealing their university offers...
    Eu students aren't that popular, universities would rather take a non EU international

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Eu students aren't that popular, universities would rather take a non EU international
    I know, but I've seen that argument so many times that it's getting annoying.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    A bunch of people who get EU funding supporting the EU.. Theres a shock.
    If your way of life were threstened, wouldn't you have something to say about it. All the folks I have seen supporting Brexit tend to be self interested business leaders who would benefit financially from being able to erode workers rights and pay less for the labour the use.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    If your way of life were threstened, wouldn't you have something to say about it. All the folks I have seen supporting Brexit tend to be self interested business leaders who would benefit financially from being able to erode workers rights and pay less for the labour the use.
    Almost everybody I've seen supporting either side have been your regular Joe on the street who believes the outcome is best for the country.

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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    If your way of life were threstened, wouldn't you have something to say about it. All the folks I have seen supporting Brexit tend to be self interested business leaders who would benefit financially from being able to erode workers rights and pay less for the labour the use.
    Seriously? Did you the millionaire elites on their boat sticking two fingers up to working class fishermen destroyed by the EU yesterday? Did you miss goldman sachs supporting us staying in the EU?

    Did you miss Lord Rose, head of the remain campaign saying the working classes wages will rise without the suppression of oversupply of labour?

    Did you miss Jeremy Corbyn?



    Did you miss my thread?

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...rimary_content

    Be under no illusion, a remain vote is a vote for the elites, big business and the wealthy. A leave vote is a vote for the ordinary citizen
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    My friends and many students I know, if England leave Europe, don’t want to study or to work any more in England. They prefer a European country member of the EU community. I predict also many difficulties in England: work, finance, taxes, exchange, trade, ...Please do realise what you are doing if you vote “brexit”.If brexit will be voted, I predict a disaster in the next 5 years.
    Lupus.
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    (Original post by ib_hopeful)
    Countless scientists and academics have said similar things to what he said. Even Stephen Hawking!

    You on the other hand, can't even give me a reliable source.
    Speaking as a prospective remain voter, I wouldn't trust Stephen Hawking on anything outside physics (and even then his black hole theory was debunked :teehee:). He's a theoretical physicist, not a politician or an economist and what he says on this matter has no greater worth than a builder, plumber or taxi driver.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Seriously? Did you the millionaire elites on their boat sticking two fingers up to working class fishermen destroyed by the EU yesterday? Did you miss goldman sachs supporting us staying in the EU?

    Did you miss Lord Rose, head of the remain campaign saying the working classes wages will rise without the suppression of oversupply of labour?

    Did you miss Jeremy Corbyn?



    Did you miss my thread?

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...rimary_content

    Be under no illusion, a remain vote is a vote for the elites, big business and the wealthy. A leave vote is a vote for the ordinary citizen
    Because clearly people like Rupert Murdoch, Peter Hargreaves and Boris Johnson represent the common man?

    It is outright ridiculous that the Brexit campaign has framed this as purely a fight between the establishment elite and the political outsiders.

    This debate has honestly made me despair for the sensibilities of the average voter. There's so much double-think and hypocrisy going on (in both sides admittedly) that it makes me realise that the result will be most likely rooted in falsehoods rather than any realistic interpretation of the actual situation and potential consequences.
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    Also as someone who actually works in academia, I can tell you that Brexit is definitely not a well-supported idea.

    As many posters have said previously, when it comes to government funding for scientific research in universities, the UK lags well behind many western countries. Organisations such as the EPSRC would almost certainly be facing a funding deficit if we left the EU. Areas like Physics and Maths are already struggling significantly in terms of bringing in money for post-graduate research and I have very little confidence that a post-Brexit government would do very much assuage those issues.

    The "£350million a week" has already been promised to every man and woman under the sun in our post-Brexit utopia. Yet the people proposing these free-spending policies have spent a significant proportion of their political careers being fiscal conservatives. Something quite clearly does not add up.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Also as someone who actually works in academia, I can tell you that Brexit is definitely not a well-supported idea.

    As many posters have said previously, when it comes to government funding for scientific research in universities, the UK lags well behind many western countries. Organisations such as the EPSRC would almost certainly be facing a funding deficit if we left the EU. Areas like Physics and Maths are already struggling significantly in terms of bringing in money for post-graduate research and I have very little confidence that a post-Brexit government would do very much assuage those issues.

    The "£350million a week" has already been promised to every man and woman under sun in our post-Brexit utopia. Yet the people proposing these free-spending policies have spent a significant proportion of their political careers being fiscal conservatives. Something quite clearly does not add up.
    If we leave the EU, we can use some of the £350 million a week for scientific research at universities. Problem solved. Physics, and Maths are currently struggling because UK spends most of it's money on the EU membership. If we leave, we can use some of the £350 million a week on University areas and more.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    If we leave the EU, we can use some of the £350 million a week for scientific research at universities. Problem solved. Physics, and Maths are currently struggling because UK spends most of it's money on the EU membership. If we leave, we can use some of the £350 million a week on University areas and more.
    France, The Netherlands and Germany all contribute a greater proportion of their GNI to the EU than us yet they still manage to fund scientific research to a greater degree than the UK. This is not an EU issue, this is a UK government issue.

    And I reiterate my point. Fiscal conservatives. These are the very same people who voted to unnecessarily cut disability benefits and working tax credits. I severely doubt the veracity of their claims that in a post-Brexit UK they'll suddenly become free-spending adherents of Keynes.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Because clearly people like Rupert Murdoch, Peter Hargreaves and Boris Johnson represent the common man?

    It is outright ridiculous that the Brexit campaign has framed this as purely a fight between the establishment elite and the political outsiders.

    This debate has honestly made me despair for the sensibilities of the average voter. There's so much double-think and hypocrisy going on (in both sides admittedly) that makes me realise the result will be most likely rooted in falsehoods rather than any realistic interpretation of the actual situation and potential consequences.
    I mean i have just given you about 5 questions including a link to another thread and you choose to quote 10 words at the end which is my summary of the previous 500 without addressing the actual content. There are good and bad on both sides yes.

    I have literally shown you Corbyn pre labour leader has spent years arguing against the EU how its bad for the common man. I have shown you very literal examples of big business getting away with near murder and abuse of their employees predominantly due to the fact they CAN because labour is in such high supply.
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    (Original post by looseseal)
    Also as someone who actually works in academia, I can tell you that Brexit is definitely not a well-supported idea.

    As many posters have said previously, when it comes to government funding for scientific research in universities, the UK lags well behind many western countries. Organisations such as the EPSRC would almost certainly be facing a funding deficit if we left the EU. Areas like Physics and Maths are already struggling significantly in terms of bringing in money for post-graduate research and I have very little confidence that a post-Brexit government would do very much assuage those issues.

    The "£350million a week" has already been promised to every man and woman under sun in our post-Brexit utopia. Yet the people proposing these free-spending policies have spent a significant proportion of their political careers being fiscal conservatives. Something quite clearly does not add up.
    Yes the whole of the leave camp are fiscal conservatives.. fml

    We are not swapping the EU for the leave campaigners
 
 
 
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