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    (I assume that you have yet to come across with internships in your life?).You were making a hypothesis with A & B. If you want to verify which situation is deemed valid in this situation, please send JP Morgan,PwC.. a letter and get an answer from them. We cannot guess and make assumptions of their intentions to launch the female internship schemes. And then internship does not equal to employment? You need to have good performance during the internship period to secure a full-time job in the company. No company will promise you that they are certainly going to hire you even you are accepted into the internship schemes, be it female or male.

    (Original post by KRin)
    (I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here, I assume English isn't your first language?)
    I realise that an internship doesn't guarantee a job but you cant deny that an all female internship schemes main goal is to get more women jobs in the internships respective field.
    What I'm saying is that if a less qualified woman gets a internship place solely because of her gender then it unfair to the guys who may have been better qualified (and therefore more deserving). If your more qualified than your male competition then you don't need a gender specific internship scheme.
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    (Original post by Quiton)
    If you understood that you are paid less/ treated unfairly in a workplace, it tends to discourage you from applying the same type of jobs. The whole point of the campaign is to send out a message that the company welcomes female workers and is willing to treat them equally like males. Social stigma has yet to be eliminated and females have less opportunities to be educated (third-world countries, asian patria society) and they are easy targets for sexual harassment and threats. I do think certain proportion of females feel they are discriminate against (and please respect how each person feel, they feel they will receive equal treatment in a work place does not equal they are weak/ timid.), and this discourage them for pursuing careers they like or good at.

    Using your weird concept, the post-starter said he is not given an equal chance despite there's loads of normal internships out there , can you say he is weak too and needs encourage from the male-internship scheme?? He does not pursue the normal internship schemes but rant and scream here crying for a male version for female-schemes?'If they want to do it but need encouragement anyway, they're weak and thus not cutout for it.' ,replace 'they' with 'he', and it still makes sense!
    the argument can be refuted based on the word "feel". realz>feels

    for example, you may "feeeeeeeeeeeeel" that women are paid less. This is in fact simply not true, research it. Women EARN less. Big difference. They work fewer hours and choose to go into lower paid positions because women consistently say they value things like "work-family balance" whereas men consistently base their career decisions on money. If you find one example of wage discrimination, please do report it to the police, since this has been a crime since the 60s. I would be highly surprised if even one company takes such a risk.

    In fact, economically it is an impossible concept to even fathom. One company would hire mostly female workers at lower rates. They would get a market advantage. To stay competitive, everyone would have to hire female workers. But you say females are under presented. These two claims are inconsistent.

    Yeah, if op doesn't apply to jobs he wants because women have it easier (they do. There is a two to one advantage for female employees STEM fields) he is being weak. Not as weak as someone needing a female only scheme when discrimination is just in their heads (women dont in fact need these schemes, they take advantage of them because they're there (why wouldn't you) but they dont need them to get into any sector) but still weak.
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    (I assume that you have yet to come across with internships in your life?).You understand my point as you also said 'I realise that an internship doesn't guarantee a job'

    You were making a hypothesis with A & B. If you want to verify which situation is deemed valid in this situation, please send JP Morgan,PwC.. a letter and get an answer from them. We cannot guess and make assumptions of their intentions to launch the female internship schemes. And then internship does not equal to employment? You need to have good performance during the internship period to secure a full-time job in the company. No company will promise you that they are certainly going to hire you even you are accepted into the internship schemes, be it female or male.


    (Original post by KRin)
    (I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here, I assume English isn't your first language?)
    I realise that an internship doesn't guarantee a job but you cant deny that an all female internship schemes main goal is to get more women jobs in the internships respective field.
    What I'm saying is that if a less qualified woman gets a internship place solely because of her gender then it unfair to the guys who may have been better qualified (and therefore more deserving). If your more qualified than your male competition then you don't need a gender specific internship scheme.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Just because there are less applications for a diversity internship programme (which would naturally happen if you are restricting who can apply), doesn't mean the people on the programme are any less qualified. The general quality of applications (and hires) may actually be stronger.


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    I never said anything about the number of applicants? But since you've brought it up, I agree that fewer applicants doesn't mean they are less qualified.
    If the 'quality of applications is stronger' then they don't need any help so why bother being gender specific?
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    Please read carefully, I am suggesting some females are not willing to pursue jobs in certain sectors as they feel they are disadvantaged and not treated equally. THE WOMAN HERSELF FEELS THAT, NOT ME! AND PLEASE READ AGAIN, I WROTE CERTAIN PORTIONS, NOT ALL FEMALES. It is just as simple as for example, when your girlfriend dumped you , you feel discouraged to pursue a new relationship and you feel sad (it may not be the reality as you might have done something that cause the break up,according to you), others have no rights to say the reason she dumped you is because you are weak/timid/coward/any other adjectives and hence you deserve to be dumped? I am saying we should respect everyone for how they feel towards jobs seeking, instead of labelling them as weak. I will never generalise people are weak when they are unemployed because they may be millionaires retiring at age of 30 and have no ways to spend their wealth!


    PS: your assumptions are quite dramatic, and I did not mention any economic aspect of employing woman, please stop putting words in my arguments. And I said SOME females, CERTAIN PORTIONS, check oxford dictionary:
    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie.../some_1?q=SOME
    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie...ish/certain_1?
    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie...RTIONq=CERTAIN


    (Original post by banterboy)
    the argument can be refuted based on the word "feel". realz>feels

    for example, you may "feeeeeeeeeeeeel" that women are paid less. This is in fact simply not true, research it. Women EARN less. Big difference. They work fewer hours and choose to go into lower paid positions because women consistently say they value things like "work-family balance" whereas men consistently base their career decisions on money. If you find one example of wage discrimination, please do report it to the police, since this has been a crime since the 60s. I would be highly surprised if even one company takes such a risk.

    In fact, economically it is an impossible concept to even fathom. One company would hire mostly female workers at lower rates. They would get a market advantage. To stay competitive, everyone would have to hire female workers. But you say females are under presented. These two claims are inconsistent.

    Yeah, if op doesn't apply to jobs he wants because women have it easier (they do. There is a two to one advantage for female employees STEM fields) he is being weak. Not as weak as someone needing a female only scheme when discrimination is just in their heads (women dont in fact need these schemes, they take advantage of them because they're there (why wouldn't you) but they dont need them to get into any sector) but still weak.
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    (Original post by KRin)
    I never said anything about the number of applicants? But since you've brought it up, I agree that fewer applicants doesn't mean they are less qualified.
    If the 'quality of applications is stronger' then they don't need any help so why bother being gender specific?
    Because the employer has to convince that particular demographic to consider a career opportunity with that organisation in the first place.
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    (Original post by Quiton)
    (I assume that you have yet to come across with internships in your life?).You were making a hypothesis with A & B. If you want to verify which situation is deemed valid in this situation, please send JP Morgan,PwC.. a letter and get an answer from them. We cannot guess and make assumptions of their intentions to launch the female internship schemes. And then internship does not equal to employment? You need to have good performance during the internship period to secure a full-time job in the company. No company will promise you that they are certainly going to hire you even you are accepted into the internship schemes, be it female or male.
    True, I haven't reached the stage of internships yet.
    Why would I send people a letter? I don't really care why specific companies have women only internships, I'm saying that it seems unfair towards the men who are also looking for internships as they have less opportunities.
    Like I said, I realise that getting an internship doesn't equal a job, but it gives people an opportunity for employment they wouldn't otherwise have.
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    It doesn't matter if the internship doesn't land a job or not. It matters they still got the job just cause of their gender.
    The only reason there is less females in STEM or Finance is cause of the majority of females don't do it. Even if their provided the same options and opportunity they don't do it
    It not our fault if they don't want to do it?

    I study computing at sixth form. In the last two years.There has only been two recruitment by employees seeking to recruit people for computing and web design. I was glad there was an opportunity for me to learn some experience but they hand to land the bomb "for women". In the end, what happened was that females who don't even study computing or have no interest, did it still, just to fill the requirement of women.

    We don't see men getting more opportunity in jobs where its mostly females like nursing? Do we ? biased much ?
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    (Original post by KRin)
    True, I haven't reached the stage of internships yet.
    Why would I send people a letter? I don't really care why specific companies have women only internships, I'm saying that it seems unfair towards the men who are also looking for internships as they have less opportunities.
    Like I said, I realise that getting an internship doesn't equal a job, but it gives people an opportunity for employment they wouldn't otherwise have.
    How would you suggest these employers improve the under-representation of certain demographics without such programmes?
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    I would not make that statement as there are loads of internships that welcome both male and female. PwC contains a normal internships and woman internship (the standard is not lowered but candidates get to work with female leaders, the post starter was defaming the firm, check the website). Male does not lose out in this situation because accepting female candidates in that female schemes is independent of reviewing male candidate's profiles in normal selection process.


    (Original post by KRin)
    True, I haven't reached the stage of internships yet.
    Why would I send people a letter? I don't really care why specific companies have women only internships, I'm saying that it seems unfair towards the men who are also looking for internships as they have less opportunities.
    Like I said, I realise that getting an internship doesn't equal a job, but it gives people an opportunity for employment they wouldn't otherwise have.
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    Guys, look up the website, http://www.pwc.co.uk/careers/student...ternships.html

    The company did not say standard is lowered for females candidates in the scheme.
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    (Original post by Quiton)
    Please read carefully, I am suggesting some females are not willing to pursue jobs in certain sectors as they feel they are disadvantaged and not treated equally. THE WOMAN HERSELF FEELS THAT, NOT ME! AND PLEASE READ AGAIN, I WROTE CERTAIN PORTIONS, NOT ALL FEMALES. It is just as simple as for example, when your girlfriend dumped you , you feel discouraged to pursue a new relationship and you feel sad (it may not be the reality as you might have done something that cause the break up,according to you), others have no rights to say the reason she dumped you is because you are weak/timid/coward/any other adjectives and hence you deserve to be dumped? I am saying we should respect everyone for how they feel towards jobs seeking, instead of labelling them as weak. I will never generalise people are weak when they are unemployed because they may be millionaires retiring at age of 30 and have no ways to spend their wealth!


    PS: your assumptions are quite dramatic, and I did not mention any economic aspect of employing woman, please stop putting words in my arguments. And I said SOME females, CERTAIN PORTIONS, check oxford dictionary:
    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie.../some_1?q=SOME
    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie...ish/certain_1?
    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie...RTIONq=CERTAIN

    You really dont understand how to argue
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Because the employer has to convince that particular demographic to consider a career opportunity with that organisation in the first place.
    And hiring based on gender doesn't seem very arbitrary and unfair to you?
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    (Original post by KnightCode)
    It doesn't matter if the internship doesn't land a job or not. It matters they still got the job just cause of their gender.
    The only reason there is less females in STEM or Finance is cause of the majority of females don't do it. Even if their provided the same options and opportunity they don't do it
    It not our fault if they don't want to do it?

    I study computing at sixth form. In the last two years.There has only been two recruitment by employees seeking to recruit people for computing and web design. I was glad there was an opportunity for me to learn some experience but they hand to land the bomb "for women". In the end, what happened was that females who don't even study computing or have no interest, did it still, just to fill the requirement of women.

    We don't see men getting more opportunity in jobs where its mostly females like nursing? Do we ? biased much ?
    I did some work for an employer who had the issue of trying to get more men into their graduate programmes (like the nursing profession). They wanted to work out how they could get more men in at their entry level position so it was as close to 50% as it could be (it was about 34% male).

    The issue they had was that although men were under-represented at the entry point, they were over-represented at more senior levels, and it only got worse the more senior the position. As an organisation, outside of admin level roles, they also had more male staff than female staff, despite the issue with an over female representation on their graduate programme. They couldn't strategically choose to implement any initiatives to get more male grads in when they were over represented elsewhere, and particularly on the board.
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    (Original post by KRin)
    And hiring based on gender doesn't seem very arbitrary and unfair to you?
    They are not technically hiring them. They are insight programmes and internships.

    It is not a direct recruiting tool. It is a marketing tool to try and attract the best applicants, whether they are male or female. There's evidence to suggest the more inclusive you are as an employer, the more likely you are to recruit a diverse workforce (not just the demographic you are trying to attract more of).

    As I said, give it a few more generations and things will change. Your grand-daughter will probably think the same when there are initiatives in the future to get men into further education and certain careers.
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    (Original post by Quiton)
    I would not make that statement as there are loads of internships that welcome both male and female. PwC contains a normal internships and woman internship (the standard is not lowered but candidates get to work with female leaders, the post starter was defaming the firm, check the website). Male does not lose out in this situation because accepting female candidates in that female schemes is independent of reviewing male candidate's profiles in normal selection process.
    Lets pretend that there are 2 internship schemes for men and women, and another 2 that only accept women. This means that a man only has 2 possible schemes while a woman has 4. Doesn't this mean the man has less opportunities?
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    How would you suggest these employers improve the under-representation of certain demographics without such programmes?
    Why is under-representation a problem?
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    Name:  a'a1.png
Views: 42
Size:  322.1 KBATTENTION

    POST STARTER FALSELY CLAIMED WOMAN IN BUSINESS IS LESS COMPETITIVE/ LOWERED STANDARD. GO LOOK IT UP ON THE WEBSITE! SAME REQUIREMEN GO LOOK IT UP ON THE WEBSITE! SAME REQUIREMENT FOR CONSULTING BE IT WOMAN IN BUSINESS SCHEME OR SUMMER INTERNSHIP (BOTH SEXES)
    equirement for female candidates in the woman in business internship (CONSULTING) is the same as ones in normal summer internship (both males and females).
    consulting: 340 tariff in UCAS, 2: 1 or equivalence in degree
    Attached Images
     
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    They are not technically hiring them. They are insight programmes and internships.

    It is not a direct recruiting tool. It is a marketing tool to try and attract the best applicants, whether they are male or female.
    So why bother having gender specific programs?
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    (Original post by KRin)
    Why is under-representation a problem?
    There's a fair amount of evidence out there to show the more diverse your organisation is, the more success it is likely to have. A lot of these initiatives are driven by the thought of future profit, not any do-gooding.
 
 
 
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