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David Mitchell: The UK's EU Referendum Should be a Matter for Politicians NOT Plebs Watch

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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    He had his say in an editorial manner. Now you'd had your say in an editorial manner
    Aye, but only one of us is on point and knows what the **** we're talking about. Speaks volumes that The Guardian are prepared to print such mistaken/misleading, condescending, propagandist tosh

    His had better jokes in though
    I'll give him that much - not that this major constitutional question is a laughing matter, really..
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    I can sympathise with feeling like you don't have a clue and wondering why you're being asked to decide on such a complex matter. I am pretty set on voting for leave but as I don't exactly have an extensive, expertly researched thesis on why this is better, I can't help feeling that I'm not "qualified". However I believe strongly in democracy and think this referendum should definitely be held, and the notion of leaving everything to the politicians reeks of "enlightened despotism" (when the politicians haven't shown themselves to be particularly enlightened anyway..).
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Aye, but only one of us is on point and knows what the **** we're talking about. Speaks volumes that The Guardian are prepared to print such mistaken/misleading, condescending, propagandist tosh
    To be honest I found your editorial fairly condescending, biased and misleading. You painted a picture with only the bits in that you wanted to be there, ignoring the extra complexities of some aspects and just ignoring others entirely. You believe you know what you're talking about, as does he I'm sure. I think if you were both honest with yourselves you would both know that you are putting a spin on things to suit your beliefs.

    I'll give him that much - not that this major constitutional question is a laughing matter, really..
    Apart from Boris, Nigel and Michael
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    (Original post by ODES_PDES)
    Idiotic man, in my opinion
    Wouldn't go quite that far but suffice to say I'm no great fan of the beardy little elitist weasel! :beard:
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    The thing is I don't trust MPs to make informed decision either. :dontknow:
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    Politicians are there to serve the populace and too much authority in the hands of a few is never a good thing. I do wish more people would read history books.
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    What a mug, does he even know what a demo-cracy is??
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Politicians are there to serve the populace and too much authority in the hands of a few is never a good thing. I do wish more people would read history books.

    That's literally what a democracy is!

    What an abolute thundercunt...
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    (Original post by 34908seikj)
    How dare you. He's an up and coming national treasure!
    Arguably was, aye, that is, until he opened his mouth on this one..

    He has crafted a TV/journalistic persona centred on being anti-elitist cynic who distrusts/mocks politicians and is pro-Democracy and progressivism, then gets behind an anti-Democratic Crony Capitalist juggernaut (seeking to secretly push through TTIP) and lectures the British people, telling them they are essentially unfit to Democratically determine their own constitutional destiny and that we should leave it to the powers that be?

    The sheer level of the cognitive dissonance on display renders the chump one peach short of a fruit salad :lolwut:
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    That's literally what a democracy is!

    What an abolute thundercunt...
    That's what a representative democracy is. It is by no means the only type of democracy.

    Try and refrain from using insults.
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    For anyone who missed TSR's Big EU Referendum - The Panel Debate, here are the main points raised on behalf of #VoteLeave:

    UK Finances
    As a committed Europhile (in the true sense of the word) I feel a strong sense of fraternity with our continental cousins, and as someone who has lived on the continent know Europe to be a fantastic place – steeped in rich culture, history, and heritage, and (ordinarily) abound with opportunities. As a learned social scientist, and someone who has dedicated himself to exploring/debating the EU in some detail, I also feel a sense of foreboding about our continued membership of the ailing institution, however:

    UK ECONOMY
    • UK payments to the EU (£13bn p.a.) constitute 20% of the budget deficit, of which only a third comes back – with strings attached | FFT
    • Net fiscal contribution of EEA migrants is +/- £2bn, or 0.25% of public expenditure i.e. impact of EU migration is small either way | MW
    • One of Project Fear’s many threats is that #Brexit will see house prices fall by 20%, according to the Chancellor. Yes please, Mr. Osborne! | GDN

    PUBLIC FINANCES
    • The way the EU has briefed against, bullied, and corralled, countries like Greece and Ireland is nothing short of scandalous | REU
    • UK already bailed out Eurozone (£20bn) sadly on the brink of another crisis – one that will cost us all dearly/probably be terminal for the EU | FT
    • Big business is using the ECJ to claw back billions of pounds of historic tax revenues. Remaining is about social solidarity and sustainability? | DM

    UK INDUSTRY
    • UK fishing receives just 21% of the funds that the EU sends to the Spanish, who pay in far less, and fish (our waters) far more | EUR
    • EU Common Fisheries Policy has cost an estimated 115,000 jobs, decimating British fishing/significantly degrading proud maritime history | TYO
    • CAP takes up half of EU budget, 80% goes to 25% of farmers, it’s wasteful, and harms farmers outside EU e.g. food dumping | EUR



    UK Trade
    It is impossible to be completely clear as to the precise impact of Brexit on trade; that is, except to say that when it comes to International Political Economy, and the quality of our diplomatic/economic personnel and institutions, the UK is very well placed to minimise related turbulence, and that - contrary to what the media has been telling us - there are plenty of respected Economists who have conducted detailed analyses and concluded that leaving would be in our economic interests e.g. Professors Minford and Congdon, Economists For Brexit, and Capital Economics

    TRADE POSITION
    • We are the 5th largest economy in the world, and are forecast to leapfrog Germany and Japan within a generation | TMS
    • Unlike Switzerland/Norway, we run a sizeable trade deficit with the EU (£120bn worth of goods) and are the biggest importer of EU goods | NIE
    • Top exporters to the EU: China, USA, etc trade rather freely, and prosperously, in the absence of membership of the customs union | EUR



    Free Movement
    INEQUALITY
    • Effect of free movement is effectively to drive down wages/employment T&Cs at the bottom, and to drive up bankers' bonuses at the top | GDN
    • The best and brightest Europeans have been emigrating en masse, worsening spatial deprivation by inflicting a 'brain drain' on the periphery
    • Our National Living Wage, whilst laudable, will further incentivise millions to travel to the UK, when income disparities are already huge

    SOCIETY
    • The sheer number, mobility, and patchy levels of integration of migrants is irrefutably causing societal friction and pressure on public services
    • It's clear that it has become increasingly difficult to secure affordable/social housing due, in large part, to related demand-side pressure | HSG
    • Roughly 50% of EU migrants return home within a decade but this churning thematic is linked to low English learning/integration | UoR

    SECURITY
    • EU’s European Court of Justice (ECJ) arbitrarily prevents barring/deportation of convicted criminals, terrorists, and unemployed migrants | BBC
    The Migrant Crisis is a shambles and the EU intends to fine member states a €250,000 per asylum seeker they refuse entry | BBC
    • Relatively unvetted non-EU migrants are being given EU residency/citizenship. We are unable to bar their entry, despite ISIS threat | REU



    Political/Legislative Issues
    THE EUROPEAN PROJECT
    • Jean Monnet (founding father of the EU): 'Common market will lead to unity and produce political union which is the goal' | NWE
    • President Jean Claude Juncker: "There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties" | BBC

    DEMOCRATIC DEFICIT
    • Democratically elected Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) cannot propose, initiate, or even repeal legislation | EUR
    • We are 1 voice in 28 (soon to be 35), and have only a tiny share (13%) of the all important EU Council of Ministers vote vs. "at top table" | FFT

    LOSS OF SOVEREIGNTY
    • A federalised United States of Europe and EU armed forces are very real prospects a la: 'ever closer union' and 'common defence' | EUR
    • The bulk of UK law is already heavily influenced by EU law - which is supreme, at any rate. Political unification will mean total submission | HoC

    LOSS OF DIGNITY
    • Surreptitious global (crony) capitalist deals like TTIP will eventually get passed vs. consumer/privacy/environmental standards and GovT sued | ZH
    • No control over massive EU migration has led to GovT squeezing other migrants, which is both iniquitous and to the detriment of our nation | GDN



    The Future EU
    REFORM
    • Ours is the first exit-referendum that the powers that be have failed to prevent in the 23 years the EU has technically been in existence
    • There is no appetite, need, or incentive for the EU to reform itself and if we remain in then the reform agenda will be completely dead and buried
    • Crippling effects of Eurozone suffocation/EU austerity on (youth) unemployment/welfare mean most Europeans are desperate for reform | EUR
    • Greece tried to use Democracy to effect change with a referendum; the EU rejected the will of the people and instigated regime change! | ZH

    SECURITY
    • Switzerland will not be sharing the security woes of the EU, having opted out of free movement (2014) and withdrawn EU application last week | DM
    • EU Com has agreed to award people travelling from Turkey visa free travel and essentially committed to fast-tracking Turkish membership | BBC
    • Other Eastern nations are also earmarked for accession - Bosnia, 'The Cradle of Modern Jihadism', recently submitted it's application | BBC
    • Cameron has stated that he wants these countries to join, and repeatedly refused to commit to vetoing Turkish membership on QT | BBC




    #VoteLeave: #BeLeave in Britain!

    • We regain control of our rights, borders, waters (fishing), waterways (reduce flood risk), transport, and can slash red tape
    • We end EU institutional supremacy, retake our seat at the Word Trade Organisation (WTO), and are free to spend our money on our priorities
    • We are free to foster a healthy new cooperative, free trade relationship with our European partners and meritocratic immigration
    • We set the scene for EU reform and can always mirror progressive EU trends in a way that suits our culture, society, and economy



    - - -

    It is important to note that whilst the above analysis represents an earnest attempt to convey the facts of the matter, we won't know for sure how anything will pan out until/unless we vote for real change. What is clear, however, is that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, that will affect the lives of every man, woman, and child of this country for generations to come. It's extremely important that we do not shirk this responsibility, or allow 'project fear' to determine our collective fate, and that us young people in particular put sentimentality and fairly deeply ingrained pro-EU propaganda to one side, and really stop and think about what it is we are being asked to decide

    Please share this information with as many people, on as many platforms, as possible. It's extremely important that we do our utmost to empower young people to make a truly informed decision, armed with all the facts, as this is the demographic that could swing the result either way!
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    (Original post by ODES_PDES)
    National R Sole
    Give the guy a break - still has time to crawl back and retrospectively label it 'satire'! :mmm:
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    (Original post by TheyHateUs)
    The Politicians are Plebs
    Here here! :chaplin:
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    (Original post by Passion Fruit)
    I have certainly noticed that wealthy, well educated people are often the most self-righteous and patronising people, yet have flaky head in the clouds ideas rather than a common sense approach which gets results
    Literally no idea where you're going with this prejudice :dontknow:
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    Multi millionaire telling poor people they shouldn't get a vote? Surely not?
    Worse still, the guy presents himself as being progressive and anti-elitist; writing in The Guardian of all papers! You just couldn't write this stuff! :laugh:
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    (Original post by Passion Fruit)
    Speaking as someone coming from quite a diverse family in many ways including social class and who is voting to remain. I have certainly noticed that wealthy, well educated people are often the most self-righteous and patronising people, yet have flaky head in the clouds ideas rather than a common sense approach which gets results.
    Boris, for example.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    A comedian makes a joke article about politicians and plebs? Surely not
    Can't wait to see the sorry **** come out now, shame faced, and try, similarly, to dress his diatribe up as satire :laugh:
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    (Original post by moggis)
    He is one of the wisest men on tv. Although thats not saying much
    Nice save :yy:
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    but he's also a pleb so why should we listen to him?
    Top shout :yy:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Worse still, the guy presents himself as being progressive and anti-elitist; writing in The Guardian of all papers! You just couldn't write this stuff! :laugh:
    Why are "progressives" often so authoritarian? :holmes:
 
 
 
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