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    (Original post by 0902)
    I'd be very careful what you say as people also 'monitor' such forums

    Most users using this forum are either current or only just 'ex' Mil, so I'd take their advice and have done and will continue to do so. Of course things change, however, with your attitude towards other users - I'd learn to just respect other users posts.

    Careful about what I say? Hahaha, I've said nothing wrong. Just because there's a clique of you guys who think you're all knowing higher powers who've been on this website for 8 years. I'm not going to get banned for challenging you and to be honest I couldn't care less if I'm being monitored or not.

    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Good luck with your 3rd attempt at the initial entry tests.
    Thanks mate, you know what they say. Third time lucky and all
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    (Original post by FattyHater)
    and to be honest I couldn't care less if I'm being monitored or not.
    They're going to love you at Halton.

    However, fair enough if you've been told:

    "When I asked at the end of my interview about commissions they said due to requirements there's a good chance I could apply and walk into commission straight out of my OCU"

    But just be careful how you present that. Yes that route may now be available in extreme circumstances, but that's not the same as the "role being open" (as that implies you could apply for it directly, which currently is not the case).

    It's also perhaps a little misleading to suggest you could be a WSO straight from being a civvy as you're still looking at having to go through Halton, WSOp training and the OCU before being eligible, a process which could conceivably take a year and would be, presumably, only for the WSOps who would have formerly been called AEOps, rather than, say, Chinook crewman.

    Yes, these are all sematic points, but it will affect how you come across in later interviews and what information other people glean from what you post.
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    (Original post by FattyHater)
    As I said, the *navigator* role is becoming obsolete with the GR4. According to Cranwell when I had a word with them about it and asked why I was tested for WSO, they're being trained up as officers commanding a group of WSOps, and I can only presume the RAF requires a set amount of WSOs recruited regardless of them having no aircraft to operate just in case.. When I asked at the end of my interview about commissions they said due to requirements there's a good chance I could apply and walk into commission straight out of my OCU.

    I'm not intimidated by you or anyone else "on the inside of this conversation" bunch of has-beens and deemed medically unfits with no current knowledge besides what the selection process in 1985 was like.
    I'm reading the way this thread has developed with a big smile on my face!

    I'll be blunt FH. Dial down the attitude mate, as you currently have zero chance of getting through training as a WSOp, and the idea that you would get picked up as a DE WSO off an OCU is just wishful thinking on your part, regardless of what you were told at Cranwell.

    I'm aware that OASC candidates have been tested for WSO recently, but if the RAF is having to man WSO posts as a DE role, then it must be in worse shape than I thought. Many, many years ago, a few very exceptional AEOp candidates were put through as 6FTS commissions. I'm talking less people than are fingers on your right hand. A small number of current AEOps / WSOps have recently been picked up by the Commissioned Warrant Officer Scheme (CWOS) and have done the 2 week knife and fork course at Cranwell to become WSOs, but I would suggest the chance of that happening to someone off the OCU would be zero to nil. A good friend of mine will become a WSO in the near future, but she's got over 14 years experience as an EW specialist on multiple platforms.

    The way you talk about WSOps implies that you think they are a pool of low life who just need a dose of FattyHater's wise advice. Most WSOps are highly intelligent, professional and self motivated individuals who do not suffer fools gladly. Quite a few have MSc's and a growing number are graduates of the Aerosystems Course - a year long curriculum otherwise known as the 'very hard sums course'. Many of the rotary crowd are Iraq / Afg veterans who have fired weapons in anger. If you honestly think that you are worthy of being OC of such people, give it your best shot. Don't be surprised if you end up with a bloody nose.

    Is there anything in my post you don't understand?
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    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    I'm reading the way this thread has developed with a big smile on my face!

    I'll be blunt FH. Dial down the attitude mate, as you currently have zero chance of getting through training as a WSOp, and the idea that you would get picked up as a DE WSO off an OCU is just wishful thinking on your part, regardless of what you were told at Cranwell.

    I'm aware that OASC candidates have been tested for WSO recently, but if the RAF is having to man WSO posts as a DE role, then it must be in worse shape than I thought. Many, many years ago, a few very exceptional AEOp candidates were put through as 6FTS commissions. I'm talking less people than are fingers on your right hand. A small number of current AEOps / WSOps have recently been picked up by the Commissioned Warrant Officer Scheme (CWOS) and have done the 2 week knife and fork course at Cranwell to become WSOs, but I would suggest the chance of that happening to someone off the OCU would be zero to nil. A good friend of mine will become a WSO in the near future, but she's got over 14 years experience as an EW specialist on multiple platforms.

    The way you talk about WSOps implies that you think they are a pool of low life who just need a dose of FattyHater's wise advice. Most WSOps are highly intelligent, professional and self motivated individuals who do not suffer fools gladly. Quite a few have MSc's and a growing number are graduates of the Aerosystems Course - a year long curriculum otherwise known as the 'very hard sums course'. Many of the rotary crowd are Iraq / Afg veterans who have fired weapons in anger. If you honestly think that you are worthy of being OC of such people, give it your best shot. Don't be surprised if you end up with a bloody nose.

    Is there anything in my post you don't understand?
    Hahahaha I don't want to be a WSO, I applied for WSOp, the information I was told was given to me at the end of my WSOp interview, I went to OASC as a WSOp candidate, and continue to proceed through selection as a WSOp, you appear to have your wires crossed, friend.
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    (Original post by FattyHater)
    Hahahaha I don't want to be a WSO, I applied for WSOp, the information I was told was given to me at the end of my WSOp interview, I went to OASC as a WSOp candidate, and continue to proceed through selection as a WSOp, you appear to have your wires crossed, friend.
    And you're speaking to ex. Aircrew, so I highly highly doubt Ikaruss has his wires crossed.
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    (Original post by FattyHater)
    Hahahaha I don't want to be a WSO, I applied for WSOp, the information I was told was given to me at the end of my WSOp interview, I went to OASC as a WSOp candidate, and continue to proceed through selection as a WSOp, you appear to have your wires crossed, friend.
    Out of curiosity, you mention you're proceeding through selection as a WSOp, however I'm sure I read on a previous thread that you hadn't made the score required for WSOp on your second attempt of sitting CBAT? (I'm merely stating and not criticising, as I for one know how hard CBAT is/was).

    Intrigued??!!
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    I've seen numerous bits and bobs floating around that speak of MSOs a on Voyager and Mission Commanders on a Poseidon being a WSO. I would be inclined to think that they'd rather offer the job to a MAcr AEOp / ALM and put them through the knife and fork course rather than commission a brand new WSO with no useful experience and need to train them from scratch. However there is supposedly a shortfall in WSOp manning at the moment (as there seems to be in every branch and trade) so I guess the powers that be are examining the options of DE WSOs. I thought the days of the Nav being the Captain (on paper, Ikky :P ) died with the Nimrod!
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    (Original post by FattyHater)
    Hahahaha I don't want to be a WSO, I applied for WSOp, the information I was told was given to me at the end of my WSOp interview, I went to OASC as a WSOp candidate, and continue to proceed through selection as a WSOp, you appear to have your wires crossed, friend.
    FH, let me be quite clear, I don't doubt what you were told at OASC and I understand you're only applying for WSOp or Police dog handler or Marines (interesting spectrum there) but I was trying to point out the very limited opportunities for commissioning as a WSO , especially straight out of training. I'm not privy to the latest RAF Manning policy papers, so I guess it's technically possible, but highly unlikely until you have significant experience and have built up credibility in your chosen WSOp role.

    Mate, just to let you know I'm not on TSR with any agenda other than to hopefully add a bit of context and friendly advice about the military areas I'm familiar with. I'm obviously not au fait with the latest iterations of the selection process, but I can tell you that every single element being tested is exactly the same as when I first attended in 1976 (now that's what I call summer). The person they're looking to recruit has not changed in all that time. What has changed over the years, is the height of the entry bar, which depends on manning requirements. I'd say it's probably pretty high at present but may be reducing as the RAF will need an influx of new blood to populate all the increasing fleet commitments.

    The OP asked for lists of WSOp crewed aircraft and you and she have come up with some types, some of which are now out of service or have been transferred to another service. Neither of you mention the P8 Poseidon, which was finally proposed at the last SDSR and for which a contract to obtain 9 jets will almost certainly be signed at Farnborough Airshow shortly. It is expected that 2 maritime squadrons will be reformed, which will standup at RAF Lossiemouth by 2020 . Two squadrons will require a lot of crews and a lot of ab initio WSOps (ie fresh off the streets) so when you're considering a job as a WSOp, you should be thinking about living in the far north of Scotland, not just Lincs/ Oxon. And if you're living in Scotland, please remember that you will be paying a higher rate of income tax in future. Having said that, it's a beautiful part of the world and many ex RAF settle there on retirement. But it's something you need to consider.

    FH I wish you the very best for whatever career you end up doing, but the advice about attitude is genuine and sincere. I was an OCU instructor and only chopped 2 students, one who I was ordered to recourse by the CO for a social misdermeanour, but the other was RTU on account of an appalling attitude. Wouldn't listen, thought he knew best and tried to BS his way through the course . No matter what we tried, he never grasped any lifelines thrown to him, and he was eventually released. I've got pals who have been instructors in both Phase 1 and 2 courses and they all say the same, that they can work on any weakness but not attitude.. In theory it should be identified and 'corrected' at Phase 1 (basic) but the odd rogue sneaks through.

    Best you sort it out now mate, or prepare to fail.

    Best regards, Ikky
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    (Original post by Schleigg)
    I've seen numerous bits and bobs floating around that speak of MSOs a on Voyager and Mission Commanders on a Poseidon being a WSO. I would be inclined to think that they'd rather offer the job to a MAcr AEOp / ALM and put them through the knife and fork course rather than commission a brand new WSO with no useful experience and need to train them from scratch. However there is supposedly a shortfall in WSOp manning at the moment (as there seems to be in every branch and trade) so I guess the powers that be are examining the options of DE WSOs. I thought the days of the Nav being the Captain (on paper, Ikky :P ) died with the Nimrod!
    Hi mate, long time no hear. I see Gaz is back in the fold! Splitter!

    Agree with you about MSOs etc and I was speaking to a MACR mate the other day who is one. According to my FB feed, there seem to be quite a few knife and fork commissions being handed out so that seems to back up the current manning issues I'm afraid. For the reasons you mention, I suspect the management would be reluctant to invest in a DE WSO unless they were exceptional, but what do I know? There are / were a lot of very capable MACR out there who would have little difficulty filling a Tacco seat / Crewman leader slot. Don't know what the future holds for captaincy requirements, mate, but I suspect for the P8 a WSO ( Tacco) will be the overall Mission Commander with power delegated to the senior stick monkey for transits, safety of flight and those tricky bits involving the ground. That's the way it was planned to be for MRA4 RIP.

    All best, Ikky
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    (Original post by 0902)
    And you're speaking to ex. Aircrew, so I highly highly doubt Ikaruss has his wires crossed.
    Wires crossed in the sense he seems to think I'm talking **** on WSOps when that's the role I'm going for. Eh, my second CBAT was a complete flop. If you'd have read my post instead of scouring through my history for ammo for your petty arguement you'd see I smashed It out of the park across all boards the first time I sat it, and my capability has never been a question.


    (Original post by Ikaruss)
    FH, let me be quite clear, I don't doubt what you were told at OASC and I understand you're only applying for WSOp or Police dog handler or Marines (interesting spectrum there) but I was trying to point out the very limited opportunities for commissioning as a WSO , especially straight out of training. I'm not privy to the latest RAF Manning policy papers, so I guess it's technically possible, but highly unlikely until you have significant experience and have built up credibility in your chosen WSOp role.

    Mate, just to let you know I'm not on TSR with any agenda other than to hopefully add a bit of context and friendly advice about the military areas I'm familiar with. I'm obviously not au fait with the latest iterations of the selection process, but I can tell you that every single element being tested is exactly the same as when I first attended in 1976 (now that's what I call summer). The person they're looking to recruit has not changed in all that time. What has changed over the years, is the height of the entry bar, which depends on manning requirements. I'd say it's probably pretty high at present but may be reducing as the RAF will need an influx of new blood to populate all the increasing fleet commitments.

    The OP asked for lists of WSOp crewed aircraft and you and she have come up with some types, some of which are now out of service or have been transferred to another service. Neither of you mention the P8 Poseidon, which was finally proposed at the last SDSR and for which a contract to obtain 9 jets will almost certainly be signed at Farnborough Airshow shortly. It is expected that 2 maritime squadrons will be reformed, which will standup at RAF Lossiemouth by 2020 . Two squadrons will require a lot of crews and a lot of ab initio WSOps (ie fresh off the streets) so when you're considering a job as a WSOp, you should be thinking about living in the far north of Scotland, not just Lincs/ Oxon. And if you're living in Scotland, please remember that you will be paying a higher rate of income tax in future. Having said that, it's a beautiful part of the world and many ex RAF settle there on retirement. But it's something you need to consider.

    FH I wish you the very best for whatever career you end up doing, but the advice about attitude is genuine and sincere. I was an OCU instructor and only chopped 2 students, one who I was ordered to recourse by the CO for a social misdermeanour, but the other was RTU on account of an appalling attitude. Wouldn't listen, thought he knew best and tried to BS his way through the course . No matter what we tried, he never grasped any lifelines thrown to him, and he was eventually released. I've got pals who have been instructors in both Phase 1 and 2 courses and they all say the same, that they can work on any weakness but not attitude.. In theory it should be identified and 'corrected' at Phase 1 (basic) but the odd rogue sneaks through.

    Best you sort it out now mate, or prepare to fail.

    Best regards, Ikky
    I appreciate your concern but I've made it this far in life quite successfully mind with the same attitude and mindset I display on here. Fair enough you're just on here to give advice but I'm not going to sit here and be patronised and ridiculed by a clique of obvious long term student room users who seem to have this condescending relationship dynamic.
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    (Original post by FattyHater)
    Wires crossed in the sense he seems to think I'm talking **** on WSOps when that's the role I'm going for. Eh, my second CBAT was a complete flop. If you'd have read my post instead of scouring through my history for ammo for your petty arguement you'd see I smashed It out of the park across all boards the first time I sat it, and my capability has never been a question.




    I appreciate your concern but I've made it this far in life quite successfully mind with the same attitude and mindset I display on here. Fair enough you're just on here to give advice but I'm not going to sit here and be patronised and ridiculed by a clique of obvious long term student room users who seem to have this condescending relationship dynamic.
    I did read your first post and commented on it, IIRC.

    I'm merely asking, how are you still going through the process for WSOp if you didn't score as well for WSOp in the second attempt?

    I don't think anyone has commented on your capability, the main concern is your attitude and yes, you may very well have scored highly in all areas on CBAT, well done, however - are you going to throw your attitude around during the leadership exercises if you don't agree with someone.
    Scoring high on CBAT doesn't make you an instant ideal candidate for WSOp. If successful, you're going to have years of training, exams, assessments, and as Ikaruss mentioned, if you carry on with this argumentative attitude that everyone else is wrong, you could find yourself getting chopped.

    I'm not here to start arguments, nor is anyone else and it hasn't ever been the case, but you have to realise that if things don't work out or if you fail at a stage of training, are you going to throw your toys out of the pram?




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    (Original post by 0902)
    I did read your first post and commented on it, IIRC.

    I'm merely asking, how are you still going through the process for WSOp if you didn't score as well for WSOp in the second attempt?

    I don't think anyone has commented on your capability, the main concern is your attitude and yes, you may very well have scored highly in all areas on CBAT, well done, however - are you going to throw your attitude around during the leadership exercises if you don't agree with someone.
    Scoring high on CBAT doesn't make you an instant ideal candidate for WSOp. If successful, you're going to have years of training, exams, assessments, and as Ikaruss mentioned, if you carry on with this argumentative attitude that everyone else is wrong, you could find yourself getting chopped.

    I'm not here to start arguments, nor is anyone else and it hasn't ever been the case, but you have to realise that if things don't work out or if you fail at a stage of training, are you going to throw your toys out of the pram?




    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yet again with the unnecessary condescending remarks. I'm well aware I might fail a stage of training and obviously I won't throw my toys out of the pram hence why I'm on my third attempt and am perfectly happy to try another 6 times. I'm a big brave boy and I'm sure I'll manage. 🤓
 
 
 
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