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Switzerland retracts its application to join the EU just a week before British vote watch

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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    How is it bully boy tactics...? There are tariffs trading with many (most?) countries, which is the incentive to be part of the free trade area. Shockingly if you leave the free trade area, you no longer get free trade. It's hardly "bully boy tactics". If you stop paying for your mobile phone do you complain they are bullying you by cutting you off?

    Even if we do go down the route of proper bullying tactics such as sanctions, depriving us of necessary resources etc. while it's pretty crap for us, it's well within their rights. They've no obligation to trade with us, any more than we've an obligation to trade with them. Crying about it and calling the EU a bully is fairly irrelevant, the situation is what it is.
    It's extremely relevant.. they are financially bullying nations into paying their organisation a fee to be a member in exchange to gain access to a "single market" - I pay my mobile phone bill because I get a phone and free calls, texts etc.. it is worth it.

    When it comes to energy - it is something that everybody requires and the infrastructure is in place to carry it around Europe. The company that owns the infrastructure i.e PIPES have a great amount of power. I do understand how this can be used to also bully other countries because of the essential need for energy. it's similar to mobile phones I get that.. BUT the people producing the energy at the source need it transporting and will pay a fee for using the infrastructure (Tariff) and again I do understand the importance. However the people producing the energy will still want people in the UK to use it.. and the people who own the infrastructure will still want paying their fee. I fail to see how the EU have control over this? Maybe this is where my ignorance comes in!
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    The EU is facist joke
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    It's extremely relevant.. they are financially bullying nations into paying their organisation a fee to be a member in exchange to gain access to a "single market" - I pay my mobile phone bill because I get a phone and free calls, texts etc.. it is worth it.

    When it comes to energy - it is something that everybody requires and the infrastructure is in place to carry it around Europe. The company that owns the infrastructure i.e PIPES have a great amount of power. I do understand how this can be used to also bully other countries because of the essential need for energy. it's similar to mobile phones I get that.. BUT the people producing the energy at the source need it transporting and will pay a fee for using the infrastructure (Tariff) and again I do understand the importance. However the people producing the energy will still want people in the UK to use it.. and the people who own the infrastructure will still want paying their fee. I fail to see how the EU have control over this? Maybe this is where my ignorance comes in!
    Right, you pay the fee to avoid the tariffs. Therefore if you don't pay the fee, you will have the tariffs, taxes, import duty or whatever you prefer to call it. While that 10% (number plucked out of thin air for arguments sake) doesn't affect you as the seller, it ultimately makes things 10% more expensive for the buyer and can rapidly make your products uncompetitive or price people out of buying them. Alternatively you can eat the 10% loss to keep things as they are. Neither is ideal, especially given the cost to you is something like 27p a day - I fail to see how you would be better off under this scenario.

    The electricity we get from France comes from their nationally owned power company EDF. As most countries actually bother to retain ownership of their infrastructure rather than selling it to private companies. Therefore France are under no obligation to sell this electricity to us and we're screwed without it. Would they do such a thing? I'd like to think not, as it doesn't really offer them any advantages other than to "punish" the UK while losing the money they gain. They can however pretty much name their price given we've no real alternatives. Again, it could be argued to be "bully" tactics, but ultimately it's their call who they sell to.
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    Thank you.. this is useful information.
    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Right, you pay the fee to avoid the tariffs. Therefore if you don't pay the fee, you will have the tariffs, taxes, import duty or whatever you prefer to call it. While that 10% (number plucked out of thin air for arguments sake) doesn't affect you as the seller, it ultimately makes things 10% more expensive for the buyer and can rapidly make your products uncompetitive or price people out of buying them. Alternatively you can eat the 10% loss to keep things as they are. Neither is ideal, especially given the cost to you is something like 27p a day - I fail to see how you would be better off under this scenario.

    The electricity we get from France comes from their nationally owned power company EDF. As most countries actually bother to retain ownership of their infrastructure rather than selling it to private companies. Therefore France are under no obligation to sell this electricity to us and we're screwed without it. Would they do such a thing? I'd like to think not, as it doesn't really offer them any advantages other than to "punish" the UK while losing the money they gain. They can however pretty much name their price given we've no real alternatives. Again, it could be argued to be "bully" tactics, but ultimately it's their call who they sell to.
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    Thank you.. this is useful information.
    You're welcome. I try not to write about imagined post-apocalyptic scenarios, as ultimately leave or stay we're all mostly reasonable people and things will work out fairly amicably one way or another. But it is a fact that we are a net importer and while that obviously means that we give them more money in trade than they give us, it also means we are ultimately more reliant on them than they are on us.

    We need electricity and food more than they need cars and financial services, that is just common sense. Realistically a "siege" where they starve us and deprive us of electricity is never going to happen, but it hardly gives us a positive negotiating position.
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    This is irrelevant to the EU but it does link in when we talk about hurting a country through manipulation of prices.

    Both Russia and Saudi Arabia produce a lot of Oil and are pretty much competing with each other and it is a huge part of each Countries economy. We all know that America and the Saudi's are allies and this raises eyebrows, it allows America a great deal of political power in Europe. It wasn't long ago that many European countries in particular, petrol prices dropped as a result of Saudi Arabia "dumping" a lot of cheap oil onto the market. The media blames this on Iran who are also competing, when in fact it kills 2 birds with 1 stone, so to speak. Europe benefits from this competition.. both Russia and Iran lose! Saudi break even!

    it was basically a political move to hurt Russia.. and Russia suffered economically from this!

    We can see here how a Country can be economically hurt or bullied politically.. So is this what the UK should fear? Could we be economically hurt by the EU if we are to leave? This is my only concern and it also explains how the EU and other world powers are bullies
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    This is irrelevant to the EU but it does link in when we talk about hurting a country through manipulation of prices.

    Both Russia and Saudi Arabia produce a lot of Oil and are pretty much competing with each other and it is a huge part of each Countries economy. We all know that America and the Saudi's are allies and this raises eyebrows, it allows America a great deal of political power in Europe. It wasn't long ago that many European countries in particular, petrol prices dropped as a result of Saudi Arabia "dumping" a lot of cheap oil onto the market. The media blames this on Iran who are also competing, when in fact it kills 2 birds with 1 stone, so to speak. Europe benefits from this competition.. both Russia and Iran lose! Saudi break even!

    it was basically a political move to hurt Russia.. and Russia suffered economically from this!

    We can see here how a Country can be economically hurt or bullied politically.. So is this what the UK should fear? Could we be economically hurt by the EU if we are to leave? This is my only concern and it also explains how the EU and other world powers are bullies
    I think you've gotten things slightly mixed up. Iran has been able to start producing oil again because sanctions over its nuclear projects have been lifted. Saudi don't like this, because they don't want nuked by Iran. They can't fight them with military might as they would lose, therefore the only warfare available to them is economic. As Iran get all their funds from oil, Saudi are flooding the market and deliberately crashing the price to hurt Iran financially (and themselves). Hurting Russia is a bonus for both the Americans and the Saudi's.

    As you say though, in Europe we are net importers, therefore it has helped us greatly (despite Aberdeen being practically destroyed).

    You complain about bullying, but to be honest I think you're being rather childish. While it would be nice if the world all worked together and got along, ultimately some countries hate other countries and we're all basically in competition with each other, even if we are friends/allies. Acting in your best interests is just common sense.

    If screwing us over benefits the EU, they will do it. They may even do it as a form of "punishment", however this is realistically unlikely, they'll just be acting in their own interests. Protecting ourselves against being "bullied" is one of the perks of being within Europe, as it is a lot more difficult to bully 28 countries than it is 1.

    Also, you're aware that we conquered like 2/3 of the known world at one point? We're hardly peace loving pacifists here. Hell, we had the Iraq war not that long ago.
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    I think you've gotten things slightly mixed up. Iran has been able to start producing oil again because sanctions over its nuclear projects have been lifted. Saudi don't like this, because they don't want nuked by Iran. They can't fight them with military might as they would lose, therefore the only warfare available to them is economic. As Iran get all their funds from oil, Saudi are flooding the market and deliberately crashing the price to hurt Iran financially (and themselves). Hurting Russia is a bonus for both the Americans and the Saudi's.

    As you say though, in Europe we are net importers, therefore it has helped us greatly (despite Aberdeen being practically destroyed).

    You complain about bullying, but to be honest I think you're being rather childish. While it would be nice if the world all worked together and got along, ultimately some countries hate other countries and we're all basically in competition with each other, even if we are friends/allies. Acting in your best interests is just common sense.

    If screwing us over benefits the EU, they will do it. They may even do it as a form of "punishment", however this is realistically unlikely, they'll just be acting in their own interests. Protecting ourselves against being "bullied" is one of the perks of being within Europe, as it is a lot more difficult to bully 28 countries than it is 1.

    Also, you're aware that we conquered like 2/3 of the known world at one point? We're hardly peace loving pacifists here. Hell, we had the Iraq war not that long ago.
    Yes we did conquer like 2/3 of the known world... and we used to be a force to be reckoned with. Guns played a part in that they made it easy to beat people with sticks! Unfortunately today everybody has guns so it's not as easy. So new technology in military warfare is enough protection we hope! And sticking together with other countries helps of course. Again we shouldn't need the EU for this.. after all we are allies with America.

    It is highly unlikely that other EU countries would agree to hurt the UK in any shape or form and we have enough influence on our own to tackle any sanctions or extortion imposed.

    The main thing that drives up prices here in the UK are Wage bills, and red tape on small / medium businesses. A loaf of bread produced here in the UK.. in my local shop as risen from under £1 to £1.45 in a few short years. This is a direct result of increasing wages. At the same time I could purchase a cheaper bread from the supermarket for 36p ie AlDI where many products are imported. So on this basis it is cheaper to import and sell than to produce here and sell.. so adding 10p to each loaf of bread is not a real problem.
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    Yes we did conquer like 2/3 of the known world... and we used to be a force to be reckoned with. Guns played a part in that they made it easy to beat people with sticks! Unfortunately today everybody has guns so it's not as easy. So new technology in military warfare is enough protection we hope! And sticking together with other countries helps of course. Again we shouldn't need the EU for this.. after all we are allies with America.

    It is highly unlikely that other EU countries would agree to hurt the UK in any shape or form and we have enough influence on our own to tackle any sanctions or extortion imposed.

    The main thing that drives up prices here in the UK are Wage bills, and red tape on small / medium businesses. A loaf of bread produced here in the UK.. in my local shop as risen from under £1 to £1.45 in a few short years. This is a direct result of increasing wages. At the same time I could purchase a cheaper bread from the supermarket for 36p ie AlDI where many products are imported. So on this basis it is cheaper to import and sell than to produce here and sell.. so adding 10p to each loaf of bread is not a real problem.
    Except that we're the country with the high wages and they are apparently going to increase if leave's campaign is to be believed? So surely that, plus the additional tariffs doesn't put us in a fantastic position?

    I wasn't suggesting we'd be vulnerable to military attack - we'd still be part of the security council, have the 4th largest military and posses nukes. Likewise I agree that any DIRECT bullying/economic attacks from the EU are highly unlikely. This doesn't mean that things can't be made more difficult for us however. I also don't believe we're big enough to bully our way into a better trading position than we currently have now, as the leave campaign claims. Sure, we're a large economy, but the EU is the largest in the world.

    Incidentally, while you can import a loaf of bread from anywhere, importing electricity isn't nearly so easy, so it's hardly a relationship we can ignore.
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    (Original post by TheyHateUs)
    The vote came from the Government's lower house as the Swiss foreign minister Didier Burkhalter told the bloc to "consider the application as withdrawn".

    Mr Burkhalter said the motion is "unnecessary" because Switzerland does not intend to join and should be considered an "independent sovereign nation".

    Switzerland has never been a member of EU but has accepted free trade with the union since the 1970s as well as accepting free movement of people as a member of the Schengen zone.

    Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose immigration quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to block its free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement.

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    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ritain-vote-EU
    It is worth remembering that this application was suspended a decade ago and 15 years ago the notion was entirely crushed by morebthan 3:1 in a referendum

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    I've been to Switzerland and trust me, they are a very rich country. They are doing fine without the EU.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It is worth remembering that this application was suspended a decade ago and 15 years ago the notion was entirely crushed by morebthan 3:1 in a referendum

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    Stop pointing out facts please, it is ruining the thread.

    Thanks.
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Except that we're the country with the high wages and they are apparently going to increase if leave's campaign is to be believed? So surely that, plus the additional tariffs doesn't put us in a fantastic position?

    I wasn't suggesting we'd be vulnerable to military attack - we'd still be part of the security council, have the 4th largest military and posses nukes. Likewise I agree that any DIRECT bullying/economic attacks from the EU are highly unlikely. This doesn't mean that things can't be made more difficult for us however. I also don't believe we're big enough to bully our way into a better trading position than we currently have now, as the leave campaign claims. Sure, we're a large economy, but the EU is the largest in the world.

    Incidentally, while you can import a loaf of bread from anywhere, importing electricity isn't nearly so easy, so it's hardly a relationship we can ignore.
    Although the EU is the largest in the world, it is the slowest growing, so something isn't working.. and I would bet it is the rising minimum wages in many of the EU countries. it is slowly but surely pricing us out of the markets internationally. Add this to the red tape imposed by the EU - and the cost of producing products and services are increasing thus slowing growth. Then add that to the Bailouts we are required to contribute to to the failing economies within the EU.. it is a sinking ship only able to keep afloat for now by manipulating markets and a false economy of debt. Debt that the interest is that high it is not being paid! The EU will sink at some point.. so we are better to get of the ship!
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Stop pointing out facts please, it is ruining the thread.

    Thanks.
    Hardly chances that formal withdrawal of the suspended application (courts pending) is significant. One must remember that Switzerland, Iceland, and Norway all overwhelmingly want to stay out of the EU (even if the Norwegian government wants in), which says something really.

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    EU is stonewalling Switzerland over their Democratic decision to end the madness that is free movement. The ***** will force another referendum
 
 
 
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