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Why Britain will get worse trade deals outside EU Watch

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    (Original post by Maker)
    If Britain does leave, it will get worse trade deals than inside the EU.

    The reason is obvious. Britain has about 60 million people, the EU has 450 million and is a much bigger economy. If a country such as the US or China gives Britain better trade terms than the EU, the EU would flex its muscles and demand a trade deal better than Britain's pointing our if it can give better terms to Britain, its not trying hard enough with the EU.

    To avoid having to renegotiate existing trade deals with the EU, countries will give Britain worse trade terms such as higher tariffs.
    I haven't read the comments in just replying to the op but the answers are simple.

    You can quote population figures but it's market size that matters.

    The U.K. Is the fifth largest economy in the world we are a priority for a trade deal with every nation on earth because of that.

    Getting a better trade deal is also subjective. When the eu wants a trade deal it is doing so for all its 28 countries interests. When we do one its for our interests only so more tailored.

    Lastly we can do trade deals with countries of which we have none with currently namely India, China and the USA


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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    So they have tariffs which is worse than what we have and they are forced to have freedom of movement without a Vote.

    .
    "forced"? you're suggesting a directoral democracy like switzerland would be "forced" to do anything remotely similar to this? if they're happy with the arrangement then they'll keep it, as they are doing. and switzerland is partially in the EEA, from the outside. obviously because this benefits both the EU and the swiss. in terms of schengen, as switzerland is a directoral democracy, obviously this benefits them just as much as it benefits the immigrants who come to switzerland, and clearly, switzerland doesn't have immigration on the scale of immigration to the UK.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    "forced"? you're suggesting a directoral democracy like switzerland would be "forced" to do anything remotely similar to this? if they're happy with the arrangement then they'll keep it.
    And if they don't keep it then they will lose the benefits of being in the EU which include tariff free trade and freedom of movement for their citizens.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    nd clearly, switzerland doesn't have immigration on the scale of immigration to the UK.
    Lol. No, their immigration levels are higher.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    And if they don't keep it then they will lose the benefits of being in the EU which include tariff free trade and freedom of movement for their citizens.
    that's quite a particular claim - where's your evidence? are you simply assuming that schengen is equivalent to the EU structure? or are you suggesting that the EU simply loves free movement *that* much that they'll free trade with switzerland in exchange for it?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    that's quite a particular claim - where's your evidence? are you simply assuming that schengen is equivalent to the EU structure? or are you suggesting that the EU simply loves free movement *that* much that they'll free trade with switzerland in exchange for it?
    Considering every country with access to the single market has Freedom of Movement, then it isn't particularly hard to work out.

    Or didn't you know this?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    ...what, by getting a free trade agreement? well done
    without a free trade agreement they'll be hurting themselves more than otherwise. it's a question of absolute gains. if you're talking about relative gains (e.g. they simply gain *more* than us) that's purely a matter of politics - do you *really* think the EU will sacrifice its prosperity in order to punish the UK? with all these lobbies in brussels that clearly are against that?
    My argument that bigger is better when it comes to trade still stands. And it will also apply to Britain when it comes to getting a trade deal with the EU.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Considering every country with access to the single market has Freedom of Movement, then it isn't particularly hard to work out.

    Or didn't you know this?
    that really doesn't answer my question
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    (Original post by Maker)
    My argument that bigger is better when it comes to trade still stands. And it will also apply to Britain when it comes to getting a trade deal with the EU.
    then why isn't the EU proving you right?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    that really doesn't answer my question
    No. You asked evidence for the claim " if they don't keep it (Freedom of Movement) then they will lose the benefits of being in the EU which include tariff free trade and freedom of movement for their citizens."

    MY evidence is that is the current status quo for all countries with access to the single market.

    It isn't that hard.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    No. You asked evidence for the claim " if they don't keep it (Freedom of Movement) then they will lose the benefits of being in the EU which include tariff free trade and freedom of movement for their citizens."

    MY evidence is that is the current status quo for all countries with access to the single market.

    It isn't that hard.
    no, I'm asking you to prove to me why they MUST have free movement to have this arrangement - so what if it's the norm to have it? the UK, for instance, is very particular about immigration, whereas switzerland isn't - why don't you think the UK would be able to trade without having to open its borders? also, if this MUST involve freedom of movement, what about turkey? why are they given the ability to free trade without freedom of movement?
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    (Original post by paul514)
    I haven't read the comments in just replying to the op but the answers are simple.

    You can quote population figures but it's market size that matters.

    The U.K. Is the fifth largest economy in the world we are a priority for a trade deal with every nation on earth because of that.

    Getting a better trade deal is also subjective. When the eu wants a trade deal it is doing so for all its 28 countries interests. When we do one its for our interests only so more tailored.

    Lastly we can do trade deals with countries of which we have none with currently namely India, China and the USA


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    You can have trade deals with any country you like, the thing is to get one where you get the most benefits for the least concessions. Britain is only the fifth largest will be up against the EU, the largest and the US and China, the next 2 largest.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    no, I'm asking you to prove to me why they MUST have free movement to have this arrangement
    Because that is what the EU wants. A single market with freedom of movement. You do understand that is one of the basic points of the EU?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    then why isn't the EU proving you right?
    You need to try harder.
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    Im strongly for a BREXIT for political reasons and the fact that the EU is vastly undemocratic.

    However, it has some advantages, so chose carefully.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Because that is what the EU wants. A single market with freedom of movement. You do understand that is one of the basic points of the EU?
    why did you cut out my other point from the quote? why aren't you going to address it?
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    (Original post by Maker)
    You need to try harder.
    "try harder"? I'm not needing to try because I have facts on my side and you don't :lol: why is the EU stagnating despite its size?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    why did you cut out my other point from the quote? why aren't you going to address it?
    Well, I am not going to through daft question you have. The first part was already was already silly.

    Why MUST you have Freedom of Movement to have access to the single market?

    Because that is what the EU wants.

    The EU isn't going to reward a country that leaves the EU with single access with no freedom of movement, then there isn't any point to it.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    That is a fair point but I think what I said still has some validity. It will be a huge amount of work to get deals done with even 10-15 countries all at the same time (I am counting the EU as 1 here) while making sure there is due diligence done on all of them to an adequate degree. Leave campaigners don't seem to have thought through the process enough for my liking and seem to be going with the whole 'we just will, it's common sense' thing which just doesn't inspire any sort of confidence tbh.
    Not getting a deal with most of the 50+ would actually have very little effect, it's just a few of them we would be particularly interested in dealing with, primarily Switzerland, South Korea and Singapore, those three make up the majority of the GDP of the deals that exist. Wikipedia gives 32 trade deals, including the crown dependencies and other EU overseas territories. Norway and Israel as well I guess, with the crown dependencies, well, one would hope we would trade there tariff free..

    The other thing is that surely if we are going to trade with the EU we are going to have to subscribe to their trading regulations and standards anyway, not sure why more people on the remain side don't mention that.
    They do, and then get nowhere. This is a statement that is true of ANY interenational trade, if we want to sell to the US we need to conform to their standards, I don't see people arguing we become the 51st state, for instance. What we go from is 100% on rules on 100% of businesses (and individuals) to potentially as little as the vast majority of the world has which is only the regulations applying to the export and only on the goods being exported.
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    1) OP ignores cultural and governmental connections between us and commonwealth states - they'd be eager to sign trade deals
    2) WTO rules still make trading within single market cheaper if we were to leave
    3) Nobody wants to trade with EU because it's a high-tariff protectionist bloc
 
 
 
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