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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You made the point weve been out longer than in, then either am missing something or its a rather obvious statement because our membership has only been going since 1973.
    I am aware it was an obvious statement, I was using it as the argument that we've been out of the EU for much longer than we've been in it and were fine then. (Something that should also have been obvious?)
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    (Original post by trc96)
    I am aware it was an obvious statement, I was using it as the argument that we've been out of the EU for much longer than we've been in it and were fine then. (Something that should also have been obvious?)
    And I made the point those times were substantially different then. Nobody is saying we wouldnt survive, but its whether we would be better off in or out. People wnat to consider more than surviving.
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    (Original post by Axion)
    See my point above and respond please.
    (Original post by Axion)
    Let's be honest. 'Fairer for everyone' under the leave campaign probably entails a drastic reduction in both EU and non-EU migrants. With non-EU immigrants at well over 160k/year, that's still too much for Farage and other leavers. So what, we're looking at a 50-75% reduction in non-EU immigrants, and probably a similar reduction for EU immigrants.

    If that is even achievable (The sheer level of non-EU migration suggests otherwise), then it'll drastically reduce both types of migrants.

    That may be fairer, but it's hardly a point to be bragging about given non-EU immigrants would find it immensely more tough to enter.... It certainly won't make our country more culturally rich, lmao.
    I would suggest that getting total immigration to a number thats not a huge detriment to many of the current British population, whilst also giving persons from anywhere in the world instead of a heavy bias to one area is the fairest and most sensible our immigration can be.

    You might think hundreds of thousands of white low skilled eastern europeans is more culturally enriching than intelligent highly skilled well travelled people from every culture and place in the world but most would disagree
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    And I made the point those times were substantially different then. Nobody is saying we wouldnt survive, but its whether we would be better off in or out. People wnat to consider more than surviving.
    I agree that times were different, but the question of this thread isn't 'should we stay in' it's 'can we cope if we leave' and imo we can cope, no idea if we'll thrive as ofc as you've pointed out, times were different when we were out before. I was basically using that point to demonstrate that yes we would survive.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    You might think hundreds of thousands of white low skilled eastern europeans is more culturally enriching than intelligent highly skilled well travelled people from every culture and place in the world but most would disagree
    Enriching or not, most of these folks are being employed (by British firms) benefiting the British economy. If we close the door who is going to do their work?
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Enriching or not, most of these folks are being employed (by British firms) benefiting the British economy. If we close the door who is going to do their work?
    Some of the 1.7m unemployed? Maybe somebody who is employed but on a shoddy unsecure zero hour contract? Perhaps these British employers will have to compete WITH ONE ANOTHER or god forbid pay a living wage and give respectable treatment to people who have not come from a country with a minimum wage of 90p
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I would suggest that getting total immigration to a number thats not a huge detriment to many of the current British population, whilst also giving persons from anywhere in the world instead of a heavy bias to one area is the fairest and most sensible our immigration can be.

    You might think hundreds of thousands of white low skilled eastern europeans is more culturally enriching than intelligent highly skilled well travelled people from every culture and place in the world but most would disagree
    Ok, what number? If immigration is a big issue now, then it has to be a heck of a lot lower than 350k. Sub-100k is what most Leavers are after.

    A reduction in the total number of immigrants, perhaps by 2/3rds, including a substantial reduction in non-EU immigrants, I put to you, is NOT culturally enriching.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Some of the 1.7m unemployed? Maybe somebody who is employed but on a shoddy unsecure zero hour contract? Perhaps these British employers will have to compete WITH ONE ANOTHER or god forbid pay a living wage and give respectable treatment to people who have not come from a country with a minimum wage of 90p
    I hear that. So why is it only immigrants who are applying for these jobs? After all UK are not being prevented. And despite coming for low paying counties, said immigrants still have to afford to live in the relatively high cost UK whilst often sending the money they earn home. If they can afford to live and work in the UK, surely someone on benefits can? Or maybe not? BTW, unemployment is at an 11 year low. Is that the fault of the immigrants?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Some of the 1.7m unemployed? Maybe somebody who is employed but on a shoddy unsecure zero hour contract? Perhaps these British employers will have to compete WITH ONE ANOTHER or god forbid pay a living wage and give respectable treatment to people who have not come from a country with a minimum wage of 90p
    Go compare EU national non-activity rates with that of British Nationals, respect that British Nationals are far less likely to be working that EU nationals in the UK, admit that your statement is therefore not particularly relevant, and come back.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I hear that. So why is it only immigrants who are applying for these jobs? After all UK are not being prevented. And despite coming for low paying counties, said immigrants still have to afford to live in the relatively high cost UK whilst often sending the money they earn home. If they can afford to live and work in the UK, surely someone on benefits can? Or maybe not? BTW, unemployment is at an 11 year low. Is that the fault of the immigrants?
    Is it only immigrants who apply for these jobs? Which jobs are you talking about again?

    Employment is at an 11 year low because the tories redefined what constitutes employment, what constitutes unemployment and because firms can get away with giving somebody 2 hours work a week.
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    (Original post by Axion)
    Go compare EU national non-activity rates with that of British Nationals, respect that British Nationals are far less likely to be working that EU nationals in the UK, admit that your statement is therefore not particularly relevant, and come back.
    What? I never said EU nationals dont have high employment?
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    (Original post by Axion)
    Ok, what number? If immigration is a big issue now, then it has to be a heck of a lot lower than 350k. Sub-100k is what most Leavers are after.

    A reduction in the total number of immigrants, perhaps by 2/3rds, including a substantial reduction in non-EU immigrants, I put to you, is NOT culturally enriching.
    I cant tell you what number because i dont know what postions need filling. Why so obsessed with a defined number?? The important thing is that we can CONTROL that number, PLAN for that number
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    We're not as culturally rich as Switzerland. We'd have nothing without our empire and the immigrants that make this country.
    You're quite right. People like Shakespeare, Chaucer, Vaughan Williams, Burns, Newton, Jenner, Turing, Berners-Lee and thousands of other Brits did nothing for the social, economic, scientific, art and musical standing of this country. Thank goodness the empire came along and allowed us to get some culture [/sarcasm]
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    (Original post by Duncan2012)
    You're quite right. People like Shakespeare, Chaucer, Vaughan Williams, Burns, Newton, Jenner, Turing, Berners-Lee and thousands of other Brits did nothing for the social, economic, scientific, art and musical standing of this country. Thank goodness the empire came along and allowed us to get some culture [/sarcasm]
    I did say we have little going for us apart from the Big Ben and Oxbridge. Many of those scientists got their education at Oxbridge, so I don't disagree with you. But make no mistake; multiculturalism has made us who we are as a nation today.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    I did say we have little going for us apart from the Big Ben and Oxbridge. Many of those scientists got their education at Oxbridge, so I don't disagree with you. But make no mistake; multiculturalism has made us who we are as a nation today.
    The country is already multicultural. You talk about multiculturalism? Ok.
    But that does not mean we should give our laws away, £350 million pound every week, etc.

    We need our independence back and our freedom. Our british ancestors fought hard in wars to protect this country's independence, and now where just going to give it away?

    Multiculturism has made us who we are today? Thats a weak statement. Especially when the country's economy isnt doing well, £350 million is given away every week, etc, etc.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    The country is already multicultural. You talk about multiculturalism? Ok.
    But that does not mean we should give our laws away, £350 million pound every week, etc.

    We need our independence back and our freedom. Our british ancestors fought hard in wars to protect this country's independence, and now where just going to give it away?

    Multiculturism has made us who we are today? Thats a weak statement. Especially when the country's economy isnt doing well, £350 million is given away every week, etc, etc.
    we should have considered all of this before we colonised other countries, don't you think?
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    we should have considered all of this before we colonised other countries, don't you think?
    Yes, we should have. Back then, it was different. British people were easily convinced that EU was right for them. But Things have changed.
    Back when we joined the eu, there was only 9 member states of the EU, now it is 28, and more countries are in the line to join.

    Too many of our laws are being given away. Each country is required to pay the EU leaders a large membership fee, etc, etc.

    However, Im sure that we can do fine without EU. Switzerland is surviving and has built free trade relationships with Japan, China and America, etc.

    Denmark joined the EU at the same year as UK. There are people in Denmark right now that are demanding a EU referendum to leave the EU. But they cannot because they have been told they cannot leave/hold a referendum unless UK leaves.
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    If the UK leaves the EU, the Soviets may invade!
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    Voters: Yes we can!
    Cameron: Er, yeah, I think so.
    You got Cameron wrong, you mean "Er, yeah, maybe, but only just!"
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    (Original post by bolly_mad)
    If the UK leaves the EU, the Soviets may invade!
    Switzerland is outside the EU and the soviets have not invaded them.

    If we leave, we will be able to make new free trade relationships with Switzerland, Australia, Japan, China, America, etc etc. This will also increase our security.

    Britain already conducts more trade outside the EU than any other member state, and the EU takes an ever-shrinking share of our exports, down from about 55% in 2002 to less than 45% last year. This trend is set to continue, underlining that our greatest opportunity for future prosperity lies in the global economy.
    Australia, an economy half our size, has agreements in place with China, the United States, Japan and a host of smaller countries. It is on the brink of signing with India.If we leave, we would regain the freedom to forge deals while continuing to trade freely with the EU.The Remain campaign would have us believe the EU would impose tariff barriers in retribution, but the truth is we import nearly £70bn more from the continent than we sell there, so it would be an absurd act of economic self-harm for the EU to start a trade war with Britain.The clearest risk is the prospect of remaining in the EU, locked to a doomed Eurozone. That is not a fanciful forecast, but an assessment of what is already happening, as well as the Union’s published plans for its future.
 
 
 
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