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B998 – LSD, Psilocin and DMT (Repeal) Bill 2016 Watch

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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    With all due respect back to you, debate takes two. I didn't want to debate the issue from my corner - I don't care if other people do, they can do as they please. I am simply stating I don't want to have a discussion on the issue because I feel the way I do about it and it'll just go round and round.
    Fine, but if you're going to post here, then I think the probability is that someone is going to respond to you and try and engage in debate, considering this is a debating sub forum... If you don't want to debate, then I personally don't understand the point of posting in the MHoC...
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    Studies* find no link between mental health issues and the use of LSD, psilocybin mushrooms (magic mushrooms), or other psychedelics, except in the case of people with a genetic history of certain mental issues (eg schizophrenia), however, in this case the solution is not to suppress information about these drugs (which happens when they're made illegal), but instead to freely educate people on the possible risks and side-effects of them, something which has been shown to reduce harm far greater than fear-based campaigns such as the infamous DARE.

    As a house we should base our bills on scientific evidence, not fear mongering and anecdotes - but of course, UKIP has a long history of doing just that. Repealing such a progressive bill would be a large step back into the days when drug users had to buy from dodgy street dealers, rather than licensed vendors.

    *Study:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0063972

    Associated article:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lsd-magi...l-health-woes/
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Fine, but if you're going to post here, then I think the probability is that someone is going to respond to you and try and engage in debate, considering this is a debating sub forum... If you don't want to debate, then I personally don't understand the point of posting in the MHoC...
    I don't mind if somebody wants to try and engage me in debate - it doesn't mean I have to have the debate.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)

    As a house we should base our bills on scientific evidence, not fear mongering and anecdotes - but of course, UKIP has a long history of doing just that. Repealing such a progressive bill would be a large step back into the days when drug users had to buy from dodgy street dealers, rather than licensed vendors.
    Hear, hear.
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    ever wanted to sit at home for 24 hours watching music videos on your computer, believing that you're entering the music videos' realities, and not understanding the difference between sight and sound?
    ever wanted to listen to songs intended for 5 year olds on day time TV and relate to the lyrics as if they're the most significant thing you've ever experienced in your life with tears streaming down your face?
    ever wanted to take a 2 hour shower, sitting down in there and looking at how the water amongst your leg hairs look like the flowing blades of grass amongst a breeze upon a heavenly meadow?
    ever wanted to truly comprehend that you are nothing but your father re-animated in another body via the process of DNA replication in a never ending process of human animal breeding on 1 planet in the universe?
    ever wanted to stare at the walls of your room as if they're entering hyperspace while doing 360 turns?
    ever wanted to suddenly have your arms replaced with exact replicas that you are able to control?

    -testimony that will please the house
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    ever wanted to sit at home for 24 hours watching music videos on your computer, believing that you're entering the music videos' realities, and not understanding the difference between sight and sound?...

    -testimony that will please the house
    To clarify, that's a nay to the repeal?
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    To clarify, that's a nay to the repeal?
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    Definitely Nay. We should be pushing for further decriminalisation to take the money out of the hands of criminals, to ensure the drugs are the safest they can be, and to ensure it's easy for people to get help.
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    Aye.
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    Kipper revenge lol

    No.
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    Aye.

    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    Nay. LSD has medical applications for crippling cluster headaches and migraines, and allowing licenses for synthesis will aid study into this.
    I would never take LSD for my Cluster Headaches, the side effects are far too dangerous. Oxygen Therapy, Triptans and lifestyle changes are more than effective enough.
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    Aye, I'm staunchly anti-drugs and I'm glad that we're moving towards criminalising drugs again - a small step, but a good one.
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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    Aye.



    I would never take LSD for my Cluster Headaches, the side effects are far too dangerous. Oxygen Therapy, Triptans and lifestyle changes are more than effective enough.
    There is no evidence that suggests LSD is harmful if taken in a controlled dose in a safe environment, and by people without family history of mental illness. Just because you don't wish to take it, doesn't mean others should be prevented form doing so.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    There is no evidence that suggests LSD is harmful if taken in a controlled dose in a safe environment, and by people without family history of mental illness. Just because you don't wish to take it, doesn't mean others should be prevented form doing so.
    There's safer, alternative options out there.

    There's no evidence to suggest it's safe. LSD effectively alters the neurons in the brain and that's not something I would want to mess with, look at how Spice is affecting young people across the country.
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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    There's safer, alternative options out there.

    There's no evidence to suggest it's safe. LSD effectively alters the neurons in the brain and that's not something I would want to mess with, look at how Spice is affecting young people across the country.
    No evidence to suggest it's safe? LSD is a very popular recreational drug and, when considered against the number of people using it, with the amount of deaths directly from the substance being virtually nil, I consider that good evidence that it is a safe drug. Read the rest of my posts in this thread regarding the LD50. I may not be a chemist, but I do have knowledge regarding LSD in particular (I've written about the substance in fiction a lot, so I've done a whole lot of research).
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    No evidence to suggest it's safe? LSD is a very popular recreational drug and, when considered against the number of people using it, with the amount of deaths directly from the substance being virtually nil, I consider that good evidence that it is a safe drug. Read the rest of my posts in this thread regarding the LD50. I may not be a chemist, but I do have knowledge regarding LSD in particular (I've written about the substance in fiction a lot, so I've done a whole lot of research).
    Again, you seem to think that the only bad thing is death

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Again, you seem to think that the only bad thing is death

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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    There's safer, alternative options out there.There's no evidence to suggest it's safe. LSD effectively alters the neurons in the brain and that's not something I would want to mess with, look at how Spice is affecting young people across the country.
    As I posted earlier, there is enormous amounts of evidence to suggest it's safe, and very little evidence to the contrary. The only bad thing is not death, far from it, but LSD, when taken correctly by users educated in its use, doesn't cause other serious side effects either, except for in patients who were already at risk from them.

    In this regard making the drug illegal wouldn't reduce harm. The people who want to take the drug would still take it, it's just they would be less informed on how to take it safely and would be afraid (as has happened countless times) to call an ambulance when something goes wrong - which will result in a bad situation becoming worse.

    It's been shown time and time again, that outlawing a substance doesn't prevent use, it merely makes it easier for children to access drugs as dealers to not ask for ID, and results in people taking impure substances cut with worse chemicals, or taking substances that aren't at all what they thought they were buying. Legalization elimantes these problems almost entirely.

    Regardless of whether or not people should take these drugs, they do and so pretending it's an issue we can just "stamp down on" and have it suddenly go away will not change anything. Countries like Portugal have shown that decriminilising drugs and instead focusing harm reduction is far more effective than treating drug users as the scum of society.

    Studies:
    Study of 135,000 people, selected at random, 19,000 of which have used psychedelic drugs
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0063972
    "1) Adverse effects of psychedelics are usually short-lived; serious psychiatric symptoms following psychedelic are typically resolved within 24 hours or at least within a few days. 2) Both mental illness and psychedelic use are prevalent in the population, likely leading to many chance associations; for instance, about 3% of the general public will have a psychotic disorder sometime in their lives"

    Conclusions:
    "We did not find use of psychedelics to be an independent risk factor for mental health problems."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4086777/
    Conclusions:
    "This pilot study in participants with anxiety associated with the diagnosis of a life-threatening illness has demonstrated safety in 22 psychotherapy sessions assisted by 200 μg of LSD with no drug-related severe adverse events. Group comparison results support positive trends in reduction of anxiety after two sessions of LSD-assisted psychotherapy"

    http://www.maps.org/research-archive/lsd/Gasser2014-JOP-LSD-assisted-psychotherapy-followup.pdf
    Conclusions:
    LSD-assisted psychotherapy in patients with life-threatening diseases demonstrated safety and positive stable treatment outcomes
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    Them being legal isnt the best thing. Psychedelics arent the safest drugs you can take.

    People who do wish to take them illegally should be responsible for their own actions. Dont get me wrong, we may like to trip balls every now and then but having access to these drugs so easily cant be a good thing. I dont understand why people are so against drugs being illegal, because them being illegal means that you cant just do them out in the open and make it obvious, you have to be discreet about it.

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Aye

    Them being legal isnt the best thing. Psychedelics arent the safest drugs you can take.

    People who do wish to take them illegally should be responsible for their own actions. Dont get me wrong, we may like to trip balls every now and then but having access to these drugs so easily cant be a good thing. I dont understand why people are so against drugs being illegal, because them being illegal means that you cant just do them out in the open and make it obvious, you have to be discreet about it.

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    The main reason is that unregulated dealers may sell more dangerous substances (due to being cut with whatever) and have incentives to move customers onto harder, more expensive drugs, whereas a firm, regulated regime can significantly reduce the risk of that.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    them being illegal means that you cant just do them out in the open and make it obvious, you have to be discreet about it.

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    So you have to get them from shady dealers who may or may not be extremely violent?
 
 
 
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