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Last chance to Leave! This Referendum will not be repeated. Watch

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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    All the political parties support Remain except UKIP. If we vote Remain Labour and Tory will not give the UK voters another Referendum.

    If the UK joins the Euro after Eurozone political union in 2025 the Government will maintain that we have had our referendum. ( See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...EX:52015DC0600 ).
    actually, it isn't.

    If a new treaty is signed, a referendum is automatically triggered.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Pledge
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    (Original post by Platopus)
    Thank you for explaining. So, would the EU become like a big superstate? That sounds scary and I don't think I want that.
    Its deeply disturbing that the intentions of the 26 members of the EU who are signed up to the Eurozone are not publicised in the UK media. The EU is a project to create a European Union, a political union.

    Just consider the pre-amble to the Treaty on European Union describing the purpose of the Treaty, the signatories are:

    "RESOLVED to achieve the strengthening and the convergence of their economies and to establish an economic and monetary union including, in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty and of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, a single and stable currency,

    RESOLVED to establish a citizenship common to nationals of their countries,

    RESOLVED to implement a common foreign and security policy including the progressive framing of a common defence policy, which might lead to a common defence in accordance with the provisions of Article 42, thereby reinforcing the European identity and its independence in order to promote peace, security and progress in Europe and in the world,

    RESOLVED to facilitate the free movement of persons, while ensuring the safety and security of their peoples, by establishing an area of freedom, security and justice, in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty and of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union,

    RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity,

    IN VIEW of further steps to be taken in order to advance European integration, HAVE DECIDED to establish a European Union.."

    The UK has various "opt outs" which are temporary provisions to deal with the fact that most British people do not want to give up their independence. However, the EU is steaming ahead at full speed, believing that political union will resolve the Eurozone crisis. When the Eurozone is united the EU will consist of the Eurogroup, Britain and Denmark and it uses majority voting!
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Its deeply disturbing that the intentions of the 26 members of the EU who are signed up to the Eurozone are not publicised in the UK media. The EU is a project to create a European Union, a political union.

    Just consider the pre-amble to the Treaty on European Union describing the purpose of the Treaty, the signatories are:

    "RESOLVED to achieve the strengthening and the convergence of their economies and to establish an economic and monetary union including, in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty and of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, a single and stable currency,

    RESOLVED to establish a citizenship common to nationals of their countries,

    RESOLVED to implement a common foreign and security policy including the progressive framing of a common defence policy, which might lead to a common defence in accordance with the provisions of Article 42, thereby reinforcing the European identity and its independence in order to promote peace, security and progress in Europe and in the world,

    RESOLVED to facilitate the free movement of persons, while ensuring the safety and security of their peoples, by establishing an area of freedom, security and justice, in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty and of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union,

    RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity,

    IN VIEW of further steps to be taken in order to advance European integration, HAVE DECIDED to establish a European Union.."

    The UK has various "opt outs" which are temporary provisions to deal with the fact that most British people do not want to give up their independence. However, the EU is steaming ahead at full speed, believing that political union will resolve the Eurozone crisis. When the Eurozone is united the EU will consist of the Eurogroup, Britain and Denmark and it uses majority voting!
    Thank you, I was not aware of much of this and I agree, it is very concerning.
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    (Original post by Platopus)
    Thank you, I was not aware of much of this and I agree, it is very concerning.
    Right, but we can just leave if the United Nations of Europe ever actually happens.

    No one has yet explained why this is supposedly the only referendum we'll ever have in our lifetime.
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Right, but we can just leave if the United Nations of Europe ever actually happens.

    No one has yet explained why this is supposedly the only referendum we'll ever have in our lifetime.
    Ah ok, I see. Thank you
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Right, but we can just leave if the United Nations of Europe ever actually happens.

    No one has yet explained why this is supposedly the only referendum we'll ever have in our lifetime.
    newpersonage is spouting the same Orwell/**** infused conspiracy theories that he was previously doing on another thread, until he disappeared from the discussion.

    The EU wants to be a bit closer together? OK, they can aspire to whatever they want. If thinks change significantly and we get to a stage where the UK population is significantly unhappy with things we'll take another look at potentially leaving.

    If OP is to be believed, future UK governments (who this might be, we don't know) will ignore the will of the UK population. In other words, OP is accusing the UK of being undemocratic
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Only if you want to be part of a political union governed from Brussels and are happy that independence is denied to UK citizens forever. (Check the link in the OP. The Eurozone is going to be a political union, it will control 90% of the vote in the EU and the UK will have to either leave or join the Eurozone).
    *yawn*

    Read Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU)
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Right, but we can just leave if the United Nations of Europe ever actually happens.

    No one has yet explained why this is supposedly the only referendum we'll ever have in our lifetime.
    No you won't get another referendum. None of the political parties except UKIP are anti-EU and the Tories are not going to kamikaze again. Then there is the Eurozone political union scheduled for 2025 (9yrs time). We will probably join it if we remain on the basis of this referendum. It will then require approval of the EU Parliament and Council to get a UK Referendum.

    Don't try to inveigle people who really dont want Union into voting Remain.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    newpersonage is spouting the same Orwell/**** infused conspiracy theories that he was previously doing on another thread, until he disappeared from the discussion.

    The EU wants to be a bit closer together? OK, they can aspire to whatever they want. If thinks change significantly and we get to a stage where the UK population is significantly unhappy with things we'll take another look at potentially leaving.

    If OP is to be believed, future UK governments (who this might be, we don't know) will ignore the will of the UK population. In other words, OP is accusing the UK of being undemocratic
    I am alerting you to the fact that the Tories will never hold another EU Referendum, for obvious reasons and Labour are Remain and denied us a Referendum for 13 years (and signed the Lisbon Treaty).

    You are obviously not going to get another referendum.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    *yawn*

    Read Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (TEU)
    I've read it of course. You and I both know that any referendum has to be approved by the UK Parliament. The main parties are all Remain and after witnessing the damage to the Tories in this Referendum none will ever risk it again. You know that and anybody reading this knows that so why are you being disingenuous?
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    No you won't get another referendum. None of the political parties except UKIP are anti-EU and the Tories are not going to kamikaze again. Then there is the Eurozone political union scheduled for 2025 (9yrs time). We will probably join it if we remain on the basis of this referendum. It will then require approval of the EU Parliament and Council to get a UK Referendum.

    Don't try to inveigle people who really dont want Union into voting Remain.
    If we have to choose between joining the eurozone and leaving the EU there will be a referendum. I'd like to see the party stop it happening.

    Incidentally, the leave campaign themselves are on record tonight at the debate saying the united nations of Europe will not happen in the next 40 years. Fun fact that.

    Although thanks for teaching me a new word, I've never heard/read the term inveigle.
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    If we have to choose between joining the eurozone and leaving the EU there will be a referendum. I'd like to see the party stop it happening.

    Incidentally, the leave campaign themselves are on record tonight at the debate saying the united nations of Europe will not happen in the next 40 years. Fun fact that.

    Although thanks for teaching me a new word, I've never heard/read the term inveigle.
    Another referendum within 9 yrs when the Tories are still wiping the blood off the floor? Who are you kidding?
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    I've read it of course. You and I both know that any referendum has to be approved by the UK Parliament. The main parties are all Remain and after witnessing the damage to the Tories in this Referendum none will ever risk it again. You know that and anybody reading this knows that so why are you being disingenuous?
    You are forgetting the fundamental fact that the UK is a democracy and, if none of the main parties are willing to listen, other parties will step forward to be the champion of major issues. Why do you think UKIP and the SNP respectively made major surges?

    So putting aside your belief that you know what as-yet-unelected governments are going to do in the future for a second, you need to remember that this is a democracy. If the EU becomes the horrorshow that you are so fond of portraying it as then the people of the UK will elect a party prepared to give us a referendum or simply to pull us out of the EU if they feel they have the mandate to do so.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    You are forgetting the fundamental fact that the UK is a democracy and, if none of the main parties are willing to listen, other parties will step forward to be the champion of major issues. Why do you think UKIP and the SNP respectively made major surges?

    So putting aside your belief that you know what as-yet-unelected governments are going to do in the future for a second, you need to remember that this is a democracy. If the EU becomes the horrorshow that you are so fond of portraying it as then the people of the UK will elect a party prepared to give us a referendum or simply to pull us out of the EU if they feel they have the mandate to do so.
    The EU already is a horror show for the UK but all the parties of government back it. We have a £60bn trade deficit, £100bn current account deficit with the EU, Directives and regulations routinely incorporated in UK law, the EU taking over from the UK in foreign policy... etc etc Yet the only reason the government gave us this referendum is that some particularly powerful Tory back benchers and grandees kicked up a fuss.

    None of the current parties of government will back another referendum no matter what happens.The point can, of course, be debated, but I am certain that you, and anyone reading this knows that the Tories will never do this again and no opposition party would risk it (except UKIP, which is not a party of govt).

    Vote Remain now and that is it, UK self government gone within 20 years, the effective end of the UK as a Nation.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    The EU already is a horror show for the UK but all the parties of government back it. We have a £60bn trade deficit, £100bn current account deficit with the EU, Directives and regulations routinely incorporated in UK law, the EU taking over from the UK in foreign policy... etc etc Yet the only reason the government gave us this referendum is that some particularly powerful Tory back benchers and grandees kicked up a fuss.

    None of the current parties of government will back another referendum no matter what happens.The point can, of course, be debated, but I am certain that you, and anyone reading this knows that the Tories will never do this again and no opposition party would risk it (except UKIP, which is not a party of govt).

    Vote Remain now and that is it, UK self government gone within 20 years, the effective end of the UK as a Nation.
    I enjoy how you state you've no way of knowing, however it is your strong opinion that they won't give us a referendum. Therefore it's obviously a fact that the government will be gone in 20 years if you vote remain.

    You sir, are ridiculous. Your opinions are not facts.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    The EU already is a horror show for the UK but all the parties of government back it. We have a £60bn trade deficit, £100bn current account deficit with the EU, Directives and regulations routinely incorporated in UK law, the EU taking over from the UK in foreign policy... etc etc Yet the only reason the government gave us this referendum is that some particularly powerful Tory back benchers and grandees kicked up a fuss.

    None of the current parties of government will back another referendum no matter what happens.The point can, of course, be debated, but I am certain that you, and anyone reading this knows that the Tories will never do this again and no opposition party would risk it (except UKIP, which is not a party of govt).

    Vote Remain now and that is it, UK self government gone within 20 years, the effective end of the UK as a Nation.
    someones been reading too much Daily Express
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    The EU already is a horror show for the UK but all the parties of government back it. We have a £60bn trade deficit, £100bn current account deficit with the EU, Directives and regulations routinely incorporated in UK law, the EU taking over from the UK in foreign policy... etc etc Yet the only reason the government gave us this referendum is that some particularly powerful Tory back benchers and grandees kicked up a fuss.

    None of the current parties of government will back another referendum no matter what happens.The point can, of course, be debated, but I am certain that you, and anyone reading this knows that the Tories will never do this again and no opposition party would risk it (except UKIP, which is not a party of govt).

    Vote Remain now and that is it, UK self government gone within 20 years, the effective end of the UK as a Nation.
    (Original post by offhegoes)
    newpersonage is spouting the same Orwell/**** infused conspiracy theories that he was previously doing on another thread, until he disappeared from the discussion.

    The EU wants to be a bit closer together? OK, they can aspire to whatever they want. If thinks change significantly and we get to a stage where the UK population is significantly unhappy with things we'll take another look at potentially leaving.

    If OP is to be believed, future UK governments (who this might be, we don't know) will ignore the will of the UK population. In other words, OP is accusing the UK of being undemocratic
    (Original post by offhegoes)
    newpersonage is spouting the same Orwell/**** infused conspiracy theories that he was previously doing on another thread, until he disappeared from the discussion.

    The EU wants to be a bit closer together? OK, they can aspire to whatever they want. If thinks change significantly and we get to a stage where the UK population is significantly unhappy with things we'll take another look at potentially leaving.

    If OP is to be believed, future UK governments (who this might be, we don't know) will ignore the will of the UK population. In other words, OP is accusing the UK of being undemocratic
    (Original post by Cecily Neville)
    Vote leave ! Let's get out of this bureaucratic hell hole.
    Know your facts people.

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    (Original post by Reformed2010)
    Know your facts people.

    Why am I tagged in this?
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    None of the current parties of government will back another referendum no matter what happens.The point can, of course, be debated, but I am certain that you, and anyone reading this knows that the Tories will never do this again and no opposition party would risk it (except UKIP, which is not a party of govt).

    Vote Remain now and that is it, UK self government gone within 20 years, the effective end of the UK as a Nation.
    You are speculating. I am about as convinced by your insistence that you know the future of UK (and EU) politics about as much as I would be convinced by a random drunk in a pub saying "Here's what I reckon..."

    If it helps, I do believe that you believe what you're saying.
    • Welcome Squad
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    Welcome Squad
    I've made up my mind in regards to this referendum.

    Let's put the 'great' back in to 'Great Britain' and say farewell to the EU Membership
 
 
 
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