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    (Original post by george_c00per)
    You're gonna end up having someone say on this thread "ur only doing this for reps ffs smh" soon, js lol
    Yeah I know. The suspense
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    And you wonder why...
    My mum is traditional, she only thinks that from listening to old scholars. I told her repeatedly to give me quotes from the Qur'an that show that they condemn gay people. I'm actually volunteering this Saturday at the LGBT Pride 2016 so hopefully that will be a great experience!
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    (Original post by SMEGGGY)
    Wasting your time. Ignorants will never change their mind

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Lol at you saying this. Youre joking right?
    Everyone take a look at this guys previous posts hating on both Muslims and Hindus.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Most people on this site definitely do not think that and I have never seen a non-troll post that.
    Ahhh I get what you mean but I wouldn't troll on something I truly believe about.
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    (Original post by IndianMuslim)
    Lol at you saying this. Youre joking right?
    Everyone take a look at this guys previous posts hating on both Muslims and Hindus.
    A bit hypocritical I guess
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    (Original post by niv1234)
    I would never say I hate a whole group of people, thats just not right. Yeah I can hate one or eve a few people out of that group but never a whole group of people. I think we should judge people on their own characteristics, personality and actions and nothing else.
    I guess, we should work together for this social and religious change.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    I guess, we should work together for this social and religious change.
    Yes that is a brilliant idea. I was glad to see from your first post that there are sane human beings out there. It restored my faith in humanity a little.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    I can clearly see that most people in this website are right wing
    Then you must be blind. Many/most people on this website are liberals who oppose illiberal ideas. You've clearly not been exposed to much besides the 'ooh, everything and everyone deserves unconditional respect' school of thought.

    (Original post by AnnieGakusei)
    Also, Islamic fundamentalism has been caused at least in part by the West screwing around with foreign policy, invading places and illegally overthrowing peaceful and democratic governments so we can get their oil.
    What a load of masochistic, low-fact nonsense.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    My mum is traditional, she only thinks that from listening to old scholars. I told her repeatedly to give me quotes from the Qur'an that show that they condemn gay people. I'm actually volunteering this Saturday at the LGBT Pride 2016 so hopefully that will be a great experience!
    It matters not if the Qur'an is misinterpreted. If it has led to an increased amount of attacks on LGBT+ people I'll blame the Holy Book.

    It's unfortunate not all Muslims are liberal like you.

    On the premise that people on TSR have done something wrong to challenge Islam, it's not fair to think it's all the debaters' faults on here though; there have been some horrible people on here using the Qur'an to justify their position.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Then you must be blind. Many/most people on this website are liberals who oppose illiberal ideas.
    You've clearly not been exposed to much besides the 'ooh, everything and everyone deserves respect' school of thought.



    What a load of masochistic, low-fact nonsense.
    I need to get my eyes checked again :facepalm: I read that as "low-fat" :toofunny:
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    Great the BNP lovers have arrived! Phrase any Quranic verse that backs up your opinion. Everyone tries to hide their wrongdoings on religion when they did it simply with their free-will not religion at all.
    Sigh. Another clueless Muslim that thinks they know everything about their religion when they don't. Re-read the quran and then get back to me.

    When I said 'We shouldn't condemn people who are LGBT', I meant collectively as a world not merely on Islam.
    Yes, but I am saying that your religion says it's okay to do so! Why do you think so many gays are oppressed/repressed in Islamic states? hmm.

    Sadly to your despair, I am rather serious. What is the sheer purpose of condemning a religion completely when we must progress collectively.
    Because Islam has many flaws and I can definately do so.

    You clearly haven't read the Qur'an so what's your point?
    Where's your proof hun?

    You feel the need to condemn Islam when you don't know nothing about Islam. People like you are the reason why peace will never prevail. When you learn Arabic, read the Qur'an in detail then talk to me.
    LOOL! Because you know, Muslims justifying burning gays, stoning gays, husbands beating up, burning, stoning, throwing acids in their wives faces, forced marriages, women being inferior to men, women being reduced to only being housewives through the quran has nothing to do with islam? Right, got that.
    I was supposed to type the lol in the quote :/ what I wrote was all me.
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    (Original post by nucdev)
    I need to get my eyes checked again :facepalm: I read that as "low-fat" :toofunny:
    That was the effect I was going for.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    That was the effect I was going for.
    :rofl:
    Fair enough
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    (Original post by nucdev)
    I need to get my eyes checked again :facepalm: I read that as "low-fat" :toofunny:
    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
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    (Original post by IndianMuslim)
    Lol at you saying this. Youre joking right?
    Everyone take a look at this guys previous posts hating on both Muslims and Hindus.
    Where necessary. Many posts are in favour of Muslims, started to become more tolerant of Hindus too but not the ones who are conniving.
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    The Quran is just as much guilty for creating division amongst people and judging different types of identities as the people you are annoyed at ... I agree with your message but... Double standards.
    You're not to blame, everyone has beliefs and no one belief is more valid than another, and you have been conditioned with these beliefs just as others have been conditioned with theirs, and I with mine.

    You could talk about hajj and how it shows unity, the pauper next to the King, dressed in the same cloth... But you just like I used to be, are impervious to the fact that all the people on hajj are Muslims, and it downplays on the fact of accepting a diverse range of people, because still all those people would say to the gay person they are separate, and to the atheist, they are separate from 'us'

    When I was Muslim I also didn't think there was anything wrong with being LGBT etc. But the conditioning of my mind and the difficulty one encounters with their psyche in that regard would engage me in an act of denial that the bare bone fact of the matter is, the religion does not tolerate such people and many others

    I would literally block that fact out like you are doing now... Deep down in your subconscious, you know you are not in a state of integrity
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    [QUOTE=Hydeman;65996461]Then you must be blind. Many/most people on this website are liberals who oppose illiberal ideas. You've clearly not been exposed to much besides the 'ooh, everything and everyone deserves unconditional respect' school of thought.

    It doesn't matter what political ideologies people in this website follow, the issue is that most people are against Muslims because of the way the media portrays Muslims to be. If a Christian person is a terrorist, the media doesn't say anything about his religion all they state is that a mental white man killed a person. But if a Muslim man killed a person, it would be on every media platform enhancing that the portrayal of Muslims are terrorist in regards to extremist views.
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    (Original post by ImNotReallyMe)
    X
    Ever thought of stopping by the Ex-Muslim Society? :beer:

    (Original post by Defraction)
    It doesn't matter what political ideologies people in this website follow
    That's not what I meant. :facepalm2: The politics of those people you've generalised in this thread are fairly diverse; they are not exclusively right- or left-wing. But they do all believe in liberal ideas (e.g. secularism, free inquiry, etc.), to which mainstream Islam (and mainstream religion more generally) is mostly opposed.

    the issue is that most people are against Muslims because of the way the media portrays Muslims to be.
    What nonsense. It may be comforting to put the blame for all your grievances on some vast conspiracy against Muslims, but this is quite simply untrue.

    Furthermore, the kind of dumb assumptions you're making - 'most' people are against Muslims? Please learn to differentiate between your opinions and your self.

    If a Christian person is a terrorist, the media doesn't say anything about his religion all they state is that a mental white man killed a person.
    Where somebody claims to have been motivated by religious ideology to commit acts of terror, there's nothing unreasonable about saying that he was.

    Dylann Roof was motivated by racism, as was Anders Breivik. The IRA was motivated by nationalism. Like much of your case, this is just another fabrication which allows you to distract yourself and reach the conclusion that you want to reach - that all this terrorism business has nothing to do with Islam and any evidence to the contrary must be the result of a vast (dare I say right-wing) conspiracy to defame Muslims as a group.

    But if a Muslim man killed a person, it would be on every media platform enhancing that the portrayal of Muslims are terrorist in regards to extremist views.
    You are aware that most of the Muslims currently in prison on murder convictions are not publicised to that degree, right?

    It's not a case of assuming an automatic correlation between the person's religious views and his offence - that only happens in the cases where there's good reason to think this, which are usually the ones that are big enough to receive extensive news coverage.

    As tempting as a share in the victimhood business may be, I urge you to resist it.
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    Despite being very skeptic of Islam and religion in general, I have to admit that the OP, despite being a Muslim themselves, tried to be fair and present arguments from both sides and didn't try to demonize one or the other, but simply called for unity, equality, interconnection and peace.

    However, even if I don't go into hundreds of problematic verses found in numerous translations of the Quran, most of which remain the same no matter the iteration, the practical reality of the situation is different. No matter how you decide to look at it, even if you give Islam and the Quran a large benefit of the doubt, the reality is that a lot of Muslims hold inhumane views about women, the LGBTQ community, atheists, apostates and so on. It doesn't matter how they got this view, and whether or not some or all of them got it from the Quran, the reality is that a vast majority of them hold that view.

    Interconnection is another thing entirely. Most Muslims, either as a part of their religion or culture, decide to remove themselves from society. They mostly interact with each other and will avoid interacting with non-Muslims if they can avoid it. Especially if they're women. After spending a year at an UK university with a decent Muslim population, I have yet to see Muslims participating in non-Islamic clubs, non-Islamic activities and even do as simple things as eating with non-Muslims or befriending non-Muslims. You can't tell me, or anyone else for that matter, that isn't happening due to those people being Muslims. They adopted this view that they should avoid interaction with non-Muslims, especially and particularly if they're women. Either through their parents or alone, they got this view that most, if not all, non-Muslims are harmful, negative or bad for them in any way.

    At the end of the day, we have to speak the truth. No matter whether or not they follow "true Islam", Islamic extremists are responsible for numerous acts of terror around the world, up to multiple times a year and sometimes taking thousands of lives. Majority of Muslims view women as subservient to men. Some Muslims are treating the LGBTQ community as abominations. That's only scratching the surface, but it's quite a prominent list of issues. My advice and final word to the OP is to consider this - as Islam starts to become more inclusive, less prohibitive and more capable of acceptance and moderation, for everyone, people will start accepting it more and more. Islam can't ask to be respected without respecting others, it can't be ask to be outside of the law and outside common sense and basic human decency.

    If Islam is to reach any level of acceptance in the West, it needs to realize that it, like any other belief or faith, can be criticized and satirized freely. That its ideas can and should be challenged and it, like everything else, is beholden to change.
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    (Original post by Magic Member)
    It's so offensive to tell someone who is Black they are a BNP lover you have no idea.
    How does race have anything got to do with a political agenda a person may behold?
 
 
 
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