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Bring your own Black Pen to vote! Vote Leave Watch

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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Brexiteers don't like facts. They're sick of experts.
    Experts with the accountability like Alan Greenspan, Benbernake, Janet Yellen, Mark Carney, Paul Krugman.

    Apparently Hugo Chavez was a expert. Look at his country now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rdian-briefing
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    Illegaltobepoor about to meltdown.
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    Oh man this is gonna be good. The tears will flow.
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    A big fat X on Remain
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    For anyone who missed TSR's Big EU Referendum - The Panel Debate, here are the main points raised on behalf of#VoteLeave:
    #VoteLeave: UK Finances
    As a committed Europhile (in the true sense of the word) I feel a strong sense of fraternity with our continental cousins, and as someone who has lived on the continent know Europe to be a fantastic place – steeped in rich culture, history, and heritage, and (ordinarily) abound with opportunities. As a learned social scientist, and someone who has dedicated himself to exploring/debating the EU in some detail, I also feel a sense of foreboding about our continued membership of the ailing institution, however:

    UK ECONOMY
    • UK payments to the EU (£13bn p.a.) constitute 20% of the budget deficit, of which only a third comes back – with strings attached | FFT
    • Net fiscal contribution of EEA migrants is +/- £2bn, or 0.25% of public expenditure i.e. impact of EU migration is small either way | MW
    • One of Project Fear’s many threats is that #Brexit will see house prices fall by 20%, according to the Chancellor. Yes please, Mr. Osborne! | GDN

    PUBLIC FINANCES
    • The way the EU has briefed against, bullied, and corralled, countries like Greece and Ireland is nothing short of scandalous | REU
    • UK already bailed out Eurozone (£20bn) sadly on the brink of another crisis – one that will cost us all dearly/probably be terminal for the EU | FT
    • Big business is using the ECJ to claw back billions of pounds of historic tax revenues. Remaining is about social solidarity and sustainability? | DM

    UK INDUSTRY
    • UK fishing receives just 21% of the funds that the EU sends to the Spanish, who pay in far less, and fish (our waters) far more | EUR
    • EU Common Fisheries Policy has cost an estimated 115,000 jobs, decimating British fishing/significantly degrading proud maritime history | TYO
    • CAP takes up half of EU budget, 80% goes to 25% of farmers, it’s wasteful, and harms farmers outside EU e.g. food dumping | EUR


    #VoteLeave: UK Trade
    It is impossible to be completely clear as to the precise impact of Brexit on trade; that is, except to say that when it comes to International Political Economy, and the quality of our diplomatic/economic personnel and institutions, the UK is very well placed to minimise related turbulence, and that - contrary to what the media has been telling us - there are plenty of respected Economists who have conducted detailed analyses and concluded that leaving would be in our economic interests e.g. Professors Minford and Congdon, Economists For Brexit, and Capital Economics

    TRADE POSITION
    • We are the 5th largest economy in the world, and are forecast to leapfrog Germany and Japan within a generation | TMS
    • Unlike Switzerland/Norway, we run a sizeable trade deficit with the EU (£120bn worth of goods) and are the biggest importer of EU goods | NIE
    • Top exporters to the EU: China, USA, etc trade rather freely, and prosperously, in the absence of membership of the customs union | EUR


    #VoteLeave: Free Movement
    INEQUALITY
    • Effect of free movement is effectively to drive down wages/employment T&Cs at the bottom, and to drive up bankers' bonuses at the top | GDN
    • The best and brightest Europeans have been emigrating en masse, worsening spatial deprivation by inflicting a 'brain drain' on the periphery
    • Our National Living Wage, whilst laudable, will further incentivise millions to travel to the UK, when income disparities arealready huge

    SOCIETY
    • The sheer number, mobility, and patchy levels of integration of migrants is irrefutably causing societal friction and pressure on public services
    • It's clear that it has become increasingly difficult to secure affordable/social housing due, in large part, to related demand-side pressure | HSG
    • Roughly 50% of EU migrants return home within a decade but this churning thematic is linked to low English learning/integration | UoR

    SECURITY
    • EU’s European Court of Justice (ECJ) arbitrarily prevents barring/deportation of convicted criminals, terrorists, and unemployed migrants | BBC
    The Migrant Crisis is a shambles and the EU intends to fine member states a €250,000 per asylum seeker they refuse entry | BBC
    • Relatively unvetted non-EU migrants are being given EU residency/citizenship. We are unable to bar their entry, despite ISIS threat | REU[/spoiler]


    #VoteLeave: Political/Legislative Issues
    THE EUROPEAN PROJECT
    • Jean Monnet (founding father of the EU): 'Common market will lead to unity and produce political union which is the goal' |NWE
    • President Jean Claude Juncker: "There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties" | BBC

    DEMOCRATIC DEFICIT
    • Democratically elected Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) cannot propose, initiate, or even repeal legislation |EUR
    • We are 1 voice in 28 (soon to be 35), and have only a tiny share (13%) of the all important EU Council of Ministers vote vs."at top table" | FFT

    LOSS OF SOVEREIGNTY
    • A federalised United States of Europe and EU armed forces are very real prospects a la: 'ever closer union' and 'common defence' | EUR
    • The bulk of UK law is already heavily influenced by EU law - which is supreme, at any rate. Political unification will mean total submission | HoC

    LOSS OF DIGNITY
    • Surreptitious global (crony) capitalist deals like TTIP will eventually get passed vs. consumer/privacy/environmental standards and GovT sued | ZH
    • No control over massive EU migration has led to GovT squeezing other migrants, which is both iniquitous and to the detriment of our nation | GDN


    #VoteLeave: The Future EU
    REFORM
    • Ours is the first exit-referendum that the powers that be have failed to prevent in the 23 years the EU has technically been in existence
    • There is no appetite, need, or incentive for the EU to reform itself and if we remain in then the reform agenda will be completely dead and buried
    • Crippling effects of Eurozone suffocation and EU austerity on (youth) unemployment and welfare mean most Europeans are desperate for reform | EUR
    • Greece tried to use Democracy to effect change with a referendum; the EU rejected the will of the people and instigated regime change! | ZH

    SECURITY
    • Switzerland will not be sharing the security woes of the EU, having opted out of free movement (2014) and withdrawn EU application last week | DM
    • EU Com has agreed to award people travelling from Turkey visa free travel and essentially committed to fast-tracking Turkish membership | BBC
    • Other Eastern nations are also earmarked for accession - Bosnia, 'The Cradle of Modern Jihadism', recently submitted it's application | BBC
    • Cameron has stated that he wants these countries to join, and repeatedly refused to commit to vetoing Turkish membership on QT | BBC



    #VoteLeave: #BeLeave in Britain!
    • We regain control of our rights, borders, waters (fishing), waterways (reduce flood risk), transport, and can slash red tape
    • We end EU institutional supremacy, retake our seat at the Word Trade Organisation (WTO), and are free to spend ourmoney on our priorities
    • We are free to foster a healthy new cooperative, free trade relationship with our European partners and meritocratic immigration
    • We set the scene for EU reform and can always mirror progressive EU trends in a way that suits our culture, society, and economy
    Another copy and paste by you Naveed well done pal
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    (Original post by Bryci)
    Illegaltobepoor about to meltdown.
    Not really. If remain camp wins I will carry on as I am. I've been preparing for this central banking crisis for a long time. There will be a even bigger recession if we choose to remain. I've got enough supplies to survive outside in rural Britain.

    In fact voting leave is me being selfless and ensuring you lot get a better future. I know dam well what the Tories are going to do if the leave campaign win. First thing they'll do is abolish all welfare. They will bring Britain to the ground to punish the leave voters.

    Since I am disabled I am going to feel it 1 way or another but when someone like me has had 6 years of persecution and fear there isn't much left what they can do to me.

    So its worth me voting leave to ensure that the rest of Britain's workers have a future.

    I don't want Britain wrapped up in the Quantitative Easing nightmare.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    Another copy and paste by you Naveed well done pal
    It doesnt matter if its copy and paste or not.

    Facts are facts mate.
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    Sargon of Akkad can explain some of my reasoning.

    He is voting leave.

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    No don't, vote Remain!
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    A big fat X on Remain
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    Too right you are.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Not really. If remain camp wins I will carry on as I am. I've been preparing for this central banking crisis for a long time. There will be a even bigger recession if we choose to remain. I've got enough supplies to survive outside in rural Britain.

    In fact voting leave is me being selfless and ensuring you lot get a better future. I know dam well what the Tories are going to do if the leave campaign win. First thing they'll do is abolish all welfare. They will bring Britain to the ground to punish the leave voters.

    Since I am disabled I am going to feel it 1 way or another but when someone like me has had 6 years of persecution and fear there isn't much left what they can do to me.

    So its worth me voting leave to ensure that the rest of Britain's workers have a future.

    I don't want Britain wrapped up in the Quantitative Easing nightmare.
    Hmmm that bit doesn't make sense I'm not sure whether you're trolling or not
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    Why do you Remainers have to be so insulting towards us when it's not called for? All this post is is a recommendation to bring your own pen, calm down.
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    Ahhh, you leave campaigners are a funny bunch.
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    (Original post by ChargingStag)
    Why do you Remainers have to be so insulting towards us when it's not called for? All this post is is a recommendation to bring your own pen, calm down.
    Because you lot are clutching at straws. its not just a recommendation its a tinfoil conspiracy theory :rofl:
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    Hmmm that bit doesn't make sense I'm not sure whether you're trolling or not
    The reason why you think I am trolling is because you have no idea that the American, European and Japanese Stock market is inflated and over valued.

    Here is a video to show you the truth that the American stock market is over valued. Ignore it at your own peril.

    Go to the 12:00 min mark.

    Look how the monetary base is almost equal to the Wiltshire 5000 index. (all usa companies). This means the US stock market is addicted to Quantative Easing money printed out of thin air!





    Now consider the same thing is being done in Europe stock market by the European Central Bank doing QE.

    However it gets far worse when you realize that the ECB are buying US treasuries to make sure the USD currency is propped up.

    Research into that and your see that this financial system is on a stop clock and can only be propped up for a limited amount of time until a huge crash is imminent.

    This is why you should leave the EU because if Britain is ordered to get involved by the EU you can kiss your economic security goodbye.

    I can guarantee that the EU will order the UK to print money. UK will have no control over its own central bank as we draw closer to political and fiscal union.
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    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Because you lot are clutching at straws. its not just a recommendation its a tinfoil conspiracy theory :rofl:
    Maybe the OP is clutching, don't get me wrong I don't believe it myself. But at the end of the day they just want to make sure their vote has the best possible chance at being counted in the biggest choice of our generation, there can be no blame for that
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    (Original post by Bryci)
    Illegaltobepoor about to meltdown.
    (Original post by TheLittlestElf)
    Oh man this is gonna be good. The tears will flow.
    (Original post by Novascope)
    Ahhh, you leave campaigners are a funny bunch.
    (Original post by Malevolent)
    Because you lot are clutching at straws. its not just a recommendation its a tinfoil conspiracy theory :rofl:
    This sort of condescension has characterised so much of popular Remain debate, and the irony is that it has been one of the biggest assets of the Leave campaign.

    You have people like illegaltobepoor making substantial and civil arguments and because people like you are so arrogant as to think your views insurmountably correct - usually because other people have told you to hold them - you don't bother to properly engage at all and instead simply mock your opponents. It is not good for democracy and it only builds up support of the viewpoint you claim to disagree with.
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    If we Remain then I can only hope for the further rise of UKIP.

    In recent polls, they already have a ~20% share of the general election voting intention and their popularity will continue to rise if we remain in the EU. Immigration concerns and Euroscepticism will never go away.

    Regardless, I will still vote Leave (with my own black pen ) later on today and hope for the best.
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    (Original post by Fenice)
    This sort of condescension has characterised so much of popular Remain debate, and the irony is that it has been one of the biggest assets of the Leave campaign.

    You have people like illegaltobepoor making substantial and civil arguments and because people like you are so arrogant as to think your views insurmountably correct - usually because other people have told you to hold them - you don't bother to properly engage at all and instead simply mock your opponents. It is not good for democracy and it only builds up support of the viewpoint you claim to disagree with.
    I mock every1 who isnt a doomsday prepper to be honest. majority of you are sheepy walking into the kebab machine.
 
 
 
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