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Brexit's Boris Johnson booed, sworn at and blocked in the street by angry swarm Watch

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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Yeah but we are a Christian nation. We have been one for a long time and we will remain one. Christianity influences our culture, our way of life and the way our society works.
    We're culturally Christian yes, I'd consider myself as such despite being an atheist.

    Church attendances have been nosediving for years though so I wouldn't class the country as Christian in a religious sense.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    We're culturally Christian yes, I'd consider myself as such despite being an atheist.

    Church attendances have been nosediving for years though so I wouldn't class the country as Christian in a religious sense.
    It doesn't matter. You don't even need to go to church to be a Christian. You just need to have faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Rather than 'leftist', I think a better term for remain voters is 'educated'.

    The leave campaign was built upon lies and already the UK is suffering for this decision, if/when Scorland (and NI) vote to leave then the entire country will be torn into pieces... all because Brexiteers wanted to fulfill some delusional fantasy about restoring the British Empire and its Commonwealth, whilst ignoring the fact that Britain is far more culturally aligned with Europe than many other parts of the world.

    And please cut the 'Christian nation' drivel out of this argument, Britain is a country of secular values.
    Regardless of the long term results of the Brexit, calling "remain" voters more educated is not only arrogant but also quite wrong.

    The prime example for this comes from the US of A, where it becomes clear again and again that Education =/= educated. There are loads of college educated voters who vote for Bernie Sanders in spite of their good college degrees.

    (And dont come with "b..bu..but..in the literal sence educated does indeed mean educated" ---------> You know exactly what I mean)

    Im focusing on the left-wing here because it has become standard rhetoric by now to call anyone uneducated who is not regressive enough. The far right... thats another story for another time.
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    (Original post by Catholic_)
    We are a Christian country as we still abide by it's traditions you moron. I can't believe you are allowed on here.

    UAE is Muslim yet there are tons of foreigners in Dubia who are not Islamic by faith.
    For starters, Gulf countries are easily majority-Muslim, whereas as you kindly identified Christians make up just half of our population, and that's not even taking into account the ones that aren't particularly Church-going so realistically the number of 'active' Christians is much lower. Yes, some traditions do persist but our country is not a theocracy; it is not governed by the religion and embraces secularism. So I will repeat myself: in the past we were a Christian nation, but no longer. But seriously, this is really irrelevant to the EU debate.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Just because there are non-Christians doesn't mean that it is not a Christian country. That's like saying that Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic country because there are a small number of non-Muslims foreigners living there.
    Its an entirely different situation compared to Saudi Arabia. The UK is in no way 'governed' by Christianity anymore.
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    (Original post by Catholic_)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsbkJ_TA93I



    Here, Here. Pro EU Empire supporters who have often been claiming Brexiters are ‘ill informed’ or ‘far-right’ are showing that there is only one type of fascism in this country – Lefists.

    The type of people who claim Brexiters were ‘fear mongering’ are doing exactly that by claiming ‘UK is over’ or ‘our future is destroyed’? …those Brexit fear mongers’ right? ...

    I’m happy and proud to be part of this great country, which has proved it’s worth to stand on our own two feet….much even before the Marxist originated Liberalism came through and challenged us as an independent,Christian, homogeneous nation – which is exactly what we were, and they’ve seeked to social engineer that foundation on a extremist scale.

    Now they have enemies they cannot control..unless they use the ‘das waycis’ card it seems

    .India wanted Independence, Jamaica wanted Independence, Puerto Rico wanted Independence, Mexico wanted Independence, well, so do we!

    We do not want to be part of this mass EU Mass Colonial Order, or sell our country's soul for a ‘stronger ’economy, or have more pressure on housing, schools or have our future wives giving birth in the streets as their is no space in our hospitals.

    Remember the Soviet Union? this is the Western version. Not done through force, but educating the young into submission. -- Proud to be British, Even prouder to be English!
    Look, I am a remain voter, but the result should not stimulate polarisation in this nation. If we can reclaim solidarity, promote social cohesion, then there is a chance the economic ramifications of this matter can be heavily mitigated. Expressing frustration is far more immature than productive, we can only move on and deal with the reverberations. Crucially, this would hold far more tangible benefits conducive to the recovery of our economy.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Rather than 'leftist', I think a better term for remain voters is 'educated'.

    The leave campaign was built upon lies and already the UK is suffering for this decision, if/when Scorland (and NI) vote to leave then the entire country will be torn into pieces... all because Brexiteers wanted to fulfill some delusional fantasy about restoring the British Empire and its Commonwealth, whilst ignoring the fact that Britain is far more culturally aligned with Europe than many other parts of the world.

    And please cut the 'Christian nation' drivel out of this argument, Britain is a country of secular values.
    And I think you should cut out the 'educated' and 'uneducated' part from your argument. You know full well that it is your opinion that 'Britain is far more culturally aligned with Europe than many other parts of the world.'. It is also your assumption that Brexiters want to 'fulfil some delusional fantasy about restoring the British Empire and its Commonwealth'. I for one voted Leave because I do not regard the EU as democratic and accountable to its own citizens, not because of the 'delusional' Empire fantasy you are talking about. I am also considered 'educated' by normal standard, studying a STEM subject in a top 10 University.

    If you wish to construct a credible argument then the least anyone can expect from you is a factual and 'educated' statement. Simply insulting the intelligence or education of your opposite side, when on the other hand making extreme assumptions is quite frankly very hypocritical of you.
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    (Original post by Galaxie501)
    Regardless of the long term results of the Brexit, calling "remain" voters more educated is not only arrogant but also quite wrong.

    The prime example for this comes from the US of A, where it becomes clear again and again that Education =/= educated. There are loads of college educated voters who vote for Bernie Sanders in spite of their good college degrees.

    (And dont come with "b..bu..but..in the literal sence educated does indeed mean educated" ---------> You know exactly what I mean)

    Im focusing on the left-wing here because it has become standard rhetoric by now to call anyone uneducated who is not regressive enough. The far right... thats another story for another time.
    But having higher levels of education does increase the chance of the average person being 'generally' educated as you describe it. Obviously, simply having a degree does not necessarily make one more educated in the political sense than those who do not, but by attending institutions of higher education they are much more likely to become exposed to general political issues than if, say, someone grew up in a small enclosed community who rarely pays attention to wider political issues. My prime example being the clear link between living in a council estate and voting leave, whilst remain areas have been predominantly more affluent with a greater percentage of the population having higher education. I'm not being arrogant when I say this, it's a statistical fact. Check Sky news. On AVERAGE someone who has a higher level of education (i.e. qualifications) is much more likely to have a sense of 'general' knowledge/education or whatever you want to call it. And these people have mostly backed remain, so my comment is just.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    But having higher levels of education does increase the chance of the average person being 'generally' educated as you describe it. Obviously, simply having a degree does not necessarily make one more educated in the political sense than those who do not, but by attending institutions of higher education they are much more likely to become exposed to general political issues than if, say, someone grew up in a small enclosed community who rarely pays attention to wider political issues. My prime example being the clear link between living in a council estate and voting leave, whilst remain areas have been predominantly more affluent with a greater percentage of the population having higher education. I'm not being arrogant when I say this, it's a statistical fact. Check Sky news. On AVERAGE someone who has a higher level of education (i.e. qualifications) is much more likely to have a sense of 'general' knowledge/education or whatever you want to call it. And these people have mostly backed remain, so my comment is just.
    Yes, a higher education does generaly point towards a higher overall level of education. However, my point was that this is not a rule of thumb.

    To rephrase my original point of "Education =/= educated":
    By that I mean that overall education encompasses more than a good degree or being a professional in a certain field. It also includes life experience, knowledge of the world, understanding your surroundings and so forth. As far as I'm concerned you could call it "world education" or "life experience" or whatever you want.

    There are probably dish washers out there who have more common sense and world knowledge than someone with a PhD.

    Besides, Im far from being all the things I listed above, but I do realise the importance of those factors.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    And I think you should cut out the 'educated' and 'uneducated' part from your argument. You know full well that it is your opinion that 'Britain is far more culturally aligned with Europe than many other parts of the world.'. It is also your assumption that Brexiters want to 'fulfil some delusional fantasy about restoring the British Empire and its Commonwealth'. I for one voted Leave because I do not regard the EU as democratic and accountable to its own citizens, not because of the 'delusional' Empire fantasy you are talking about. I am also considered 'educated' by normal standard, studying a STEM subject in a top 10 University.

    If you wish to construct a credible argument then the least anyone can expect from you is a factual and 'educated' statement. Simply insulting the intelligence or education of your opposite side, when on the other hand making extreme assumptions is quite frankly very hypocritical of you.
    I was referring to a Yougov poll that uncovered that amongst the Brexit campaign only 29% of supporters were university educated, in contrast to remain supporters where in some voting districts this figure was as high as 70%. So yes, the average remain supporter is statistically more educated than the average leaver. Nevertheless, the leave campaign was built around lies such as Turkey imminently joining (that leaflet posted around the country even showed Iraq and Syria on the map!), or the £350m per week figure (which has been proven to be false, and our economy has shrank by far more than this in the past few hours alone). As far as I'm concerned, anyone who doesn't listen to factual evidence is uneducated. And the leave campaign had no foundation of this in the slightest.

    And no, it is also fairly obvious that Britian is far more culturally aligned with places like France and Germany than with other commonwealth countries such as India. This wasn't my opinion, it's just cultural observation.

    You may have not voted for British Empire nostalgia, but during my time debating with people both on here and in real life, I've heard countless calls to 'return to before' and that 'we didn't need them before and we don't need them now'. Others have been saying that we can now trade with Commonwealth countries more than before, despite shooting our biggest trade partner (Europe) in the foot, so it does seem to me that a large number of voters (probably elderly) do have some sort of British Empire fantasy that they thought they could fulfill by voting leave.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Rather than 'leftist', I think a better term for remain voters is 'educated'.
    Actually many leftists, like myself, decided to vote Leave, just as there are conservatives who voted Remain. Also, your characterisation of leftists as the only "educated" political block marks you out as something of a philistine.

    I'm a democratic socialist, I'm a former trade union officer and a Labour Party member. I live in quite a working-class neighbourhood and have been involved in a lot of working-class left wing political campaigns in my area. On the other hand, I'm from quite a rural/upper-class background and many of my friends fit into that category. Not that long ago I went straight from a trade union meeting to the Travellers Club for dinner.

    One of life's great pleasures is being able to hunt with the hounds and run with the hares, to keep two sets of books as it were. I have conservative friends with whom I profoundly disagree but I also accept two people can look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions, and that is what makes life interesting.

    Hopefully as you get older you will mature and broaden your horizons, otherwise you're set to have quite a sad, limited little circle of friends; more a circle jerk or echo chamber than a true cross-section of society in your address book.
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    (Original post by Catholic_)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsbkJ_TA93I



    Here, Here. Pro EU Empire supporters who have often been claiming Brexiters are ‘ill informed’ or ‘far-right’ are showing that there is only one type of fascism in this country – Lefists.

    The type of people who claim Brexiters were ‘fear mongering’ are doing exactly that by claiming ‘UK is over’ or ‘our future is destroyed’? …those Brexit fear mongers’ right? ...

    I’m happy and proud to be part of this great country, which has proved it’s worth to stand on our own two feet….much even before the Marxist originated Liberalism came through and challenged us as an independent,Christian, homogeneous nation – which is exactly what we were, and they’ve seeked to social engineer that foundation on a extremist scale.

    Now they have enemies they cannot control..unless they use the ‘das waycis’ card it seems

    .India wanted Independence, Jamaica wanted Independence, Puerto Rico wanted Independence, Mexico wanted Independence, well, so do we!

    We do not want to be part of this mass EU Mass Colonial Order, or sell our country's soul for a ‘stronger ’economy, or have more pressure on housing, schools or have our future wives giving birth in the streets as their is no space in our hospitals.

    Remember the Soviet Union? this is the Western version. Not done through force, but educating the young into submission. -- Proud to be British, Even prouder to be English!
    Ew, nationalism.

    Can you really compare our exit from the EU to the Indian independence, really? And expect any credibility?

    We need investment and none of that is gonna come now we have left mate - expect a recession. We might not be able to come back from this one especially now we are about to leave those that propped us up when we first joined the EEC.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    Nevertheless, the leave campaign was built around lies such as Turkey imminently joining
    It was said Turkey is "set" to join. And they are; they are formally in the EU accession process and the Commission has said they are going to speed up that process.

    As far as I'm concerned, anyone who doesn't listen to factual evidence is uneducated. And the leave campaign had no foundation of this in the slightest.
    Different people weight the importance of issues differently. The EU's democratic deficit and the issue of British sovereignty is undeniably factual. I rated those issues as important and thus they were very much deciding factors for me.

    Your inability to conceive the possibility that two people can look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions suggests, at best, an average intellect
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    They're all angry about the cake that is traded from Walthamstow to the EU/
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    You haven't even made an argument though, you've literally just said "liberal Marxists blahblahah Independence Day". I'm telling you that this notion is wrong and short-sighted.

    Again, the fact that a large portion of Christians live in this country is irrelevant to the EU debate. Furthermore, there are countless religious denominations in residence in this country, not to mention millions of atheists, so saying we are a Christian nation is just wrong. Historically, yes, but not anymore.
    As much as I disagree with the OP on his tone, I do agree that Britain made the right move(Though I had no vote as I am Canadian - No dog in this fight at all).

    We are living in a global society. A truly global society requires decentralization of power to function effectively - The rules that work for rural Derbyshire do not necessarily work in downtown Berlin. Moving ever closer to a central bureaucracy in the EU results(And has resulted in) bureaucratic bloat and a greater potential for tyranny as there was no way for Brits to control many of the laws that govern Britain(See the Human Rights Act for one and compare that to the human rights laws that were in effect prior..)

    I believe the future lies in a diffusion of power, with things like the Internet and global travel encouraging that. The EU, while laudable with its free movement and work, failed on several levels and was failing worse on other levels.

    I would guess from your response that you are Keynesian in economic outlook, so you voted Remain(And should have). I lean more towards Hayek, so I necessarily disagree with you on several fundamental things economically.

    The thing is: The UK voted to leave, so they lean more towards self-determination and national sovereignty than centralized bureaucratic benevolent... Interference? Meddling?

    It took a lot of courage - I'd have voted Leave to, despite it clearly being the riskier option. In Finance, Risk simply means there is a wider array of outcomes. This could be very bad(Potentially destabilizing the whole region) or it could be very good(Initializing a purely economic free trade among the Commonwealth countries such as Canada, the US, Australia and New Zealand). Either way, the outcome is purely down to the grit and determination of the British people and their leaders - Aspects of character they have never been short of.
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    (Original post by JRKinder)
    I was referring to a Yougov poll that uncovered that amongst the Brexit campaign only 29% of supporters were university educated, in contrast to remain supporters where in some voting districts this figure was as high as 70%. So yes, the average remain supporter is statistically more educated than the average leaver. Nevertheless, the leave campaign was built around lies such as Turkey imminently joining (that leaflet posted around the country even showed Iraq and Syria on the map!), or the £350m per week figure (which has been proven to be false, and our economy has shrank by far more than this in the past few hours alone). As far as I'm concerned, anyone who doesn't listen to factual evidence is uneducated. And the leave campaign had no foundation of this in the slightest.

    And no, it is also fairly obvious that Britian is far more culturally aligned with places like France and Germany than with other commonwealth countries such as India. This wasn't my opinion, it's just cultural observation.

    You may have not voted for British Empire nostalgia, but during my time debating with people both on here and in real life, I've heard countless calls to 'return to before' and that 'we didn't need them before and we don't need them now'. Others have been saying that we can now trade with Commonwealth countries more than before, despite shooting our biggest trade partner (Europe) in the foot, so it does seem to me that a large number of voters (probably elderly) do have some sort of British Empire fantasy that they thought they could fulfill by voting leave.
    You might want to note that cultural observation is an opinion.

    I also of course can appreciate that some people may have believed in some of the things you attributed, however this does not take away from the merit of some of the Brexit's arguments and I hope you can respect that.

    I have personally submitted a figure breakdown on this thread which takes into the account the rebate and have also stated the caveats on further subtracting the average ROI of the debate money due to the yearly-trailing nature of the debate calculation method. It comes down to approximately a net daily payment of £23.3 million being the fairest figure. Although I have voted for Leave, I hope I can demonstrate as an example that some people can see through those figures and conduct their own analysis of the claims. Even though I may not approve their figure, my goal is still aligned with most Brexiters.

    The stock market and the Pound Sterling has taken a hit today but this is expected whenever uncertainty is ahead. This does not mean there is a real underlying factor that negatively affects our economy. In fact in real term very little had changed overnight (and indeed how could it be?) but just that high level of uncertainty is not desirable for speculators. What the real economic impact is, will be decided by how our government negotiates the new deal with Europe and the level of success of the transition. The market will then adjust accordingly. Therefore it really is too early to say that Brexit has wrecked the economy when in fact no solid evidence is suggesting as such at this moment.

    The democratic argument is largely overlooked by the immigration and membership fees subjects, which I have no major issues with. However just because this is often overlooked does not mean this is not a big issue, in fact it is arguably one of the biggest issues. So the attention of the voters may be slightly misdirected, however you should not dismiss the merits of other less mainstream concerns which would actually concern most people (educated or uneducated) if the correct exposure was given.

    In summary just because the mainstream argument doesn't appeal to you does not mean they are wrong, and does not take away the merit from the less-mainstream ones. Different people voted for different things, and I am an example of this. There is no need to cherry pick on the 'uneducated', and disregard the other arguments which probably appealed to people who are more educated. I do regret that you have to debate with people who seems to only know the mainstream arguments, believe me I understand it must have been a real pain. Given the circumstances, they may not be fully justified on their views and what they say, but to me they may have made a good mistake.
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    Kind of ironic, isn't it? Bremainers preach tolerance and acceptance, and then proceed to attack and insult anyone who doesn't agree with them i.e. Brexiters.
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    (Original post by Catholic_)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsbkJ_TA93I



    Here, Here. Pro EU Empire supporters who have often been claiming Brexiters are ‘ill informed’ or ‘far-right’ are showing that there is only one type of fascism in this country – Lefists.

    The type of people who claim Brexiters were ‘fear mongering’ are doing exactly that by claiming ‘UK is over’ or ‘our future is destroyed’? …those Brexit fear mongers’ right? ...

    I’m happy and proud to be part of this great country, which has proved it’s worth to stand on our own two feet….much even before the Marxist originated Liberalism came through and challenged us as an independent,Christian, homogeneous nation – which is exactly what we were, and they’ve seeked to social engineer that foundation on a extremist scale.

    Now they have enemies they cannot control..unless they use the ‘das waycis’ card it seems

    .India wanted Independence, Jamaica wanted Independence, Puerto Rico wanted Independence, Mexico wanted Independence, well, so do we!

    We do not want to be part of this mass EU Mass Colonial Order, or sell our country's soul for a ‘stronger ’economy, or have more pressure on housing, schools or have our future wives giving birth in the streets as their is no space in our hospitals.

    Remember the Soviet Union? this is the Western version. Not done through force, but educating the young into submission. -- Proud to be British, Even prouder to be English!
    We are a small country that's been punching above its weight for some time now, largely thanks to the EU. Don't get grandiose ideas about the future of Britain - I certainly disagree with the people saying we're "ruined" and "doomed" and so on, but I do think we've just detached ourselves from an organisation with a much larger voice than our own. We're in a globalising world and we just took a very deliberate step away from it - do not expect British voices to be heard worldwide on anywhere near the same scale as before once we leave
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    Actually many leftists, like myself, decided to vote Leave, just as there are conservatives who voted Remain. Also, your characterisation of leftists as the only "educated" political block marks you out as something of a philistine.

    I'm a democratic socialist, I'm a former trade union officer and a Labour Party member. I live in quite a working-class neighbourhood and have been involved in a lot of working-class left wing political campaigns in my area. On the other hand, I'm from quite a rural/upper-class background and many of my friends fit into that category. Not that long ago I went straight from a trade union meeting to the Travellers Club for dinner.

    One of life's great pleasures is being able to hunt with the hounds and run with the hares, to keep two sets of books as it were. I have conservative friends with whom I profoundly disagree but I also accept two people can look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions, and that is what makes life interesting.

    Hopefully as you get older you will mature and broaden your horizons, otherwise you're set to have quite a sad, limited little circle of friends; more a circle jerk or echo chamber than a true cross-section of society in your address book.
    You misunderstand me, I was calling the OP out for branding remainers as 'leftists' and instead was suggesting that remainers were people who weren't fooled by the lies of the leave campaign, and instead looked at raw factual evidence before making a decision. I consider myself to be centre-right, and also am acquainted with people from across the political spectrum - for example I have some friends who are socialists and from a very working-class area, my own grandfather is a golf-playing, horse-riding Thatcherite, and I happen to disagree with both of them. My complaint isn't that other people can interpret things in a different way to me, my complaint is that the British people have been conned by the leave campaign who have not presented any factual evidence for leaving at all, and we are all going to suffer because of it.


    ((To others who have replied to my comments, I will gladly reply to you later but I am currently revising for an exam and have little time to do so at this moment, so please bear with me - thanks))
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    (Original post by Dom2375)
    They're all angry about the cake that is traded from Walthamstow to the EU/
    What cake?? I want cake
 
 
 
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