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    (Original post by DontVoteLabour)
    Oh you estimated.. with no source.. that sounds reliable.
    How is that rich coming from a Leave supporter? Please stop generalising.
    Not a generalisation. Leave has built its campaign around misrepresentation and lies. Oh, and bigotry. I feel I can't stress that enough.

    I can already see your upcoming argument but go on.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Why do Brexiters hate facts and knowledge so much? It's almost uncivilised.
    Your condescending tone and terrible attitude isn't very civilised missy.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    You do realise Switzerland and Norway have to agree to everything we've left the EU to get away from? They accept free movement and they're bound by most of its legislation (even though they don't get a say in making it).

    Have we just left the EU so we can do exactly what we were doing before, except making less money and with less influence?
    The Switzerland/Norway myth is entrenched, you're wasting your time.
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    (Original post by WhisperingTide)
    I'm not the person who made the original comment.

    So... What evidence?
    He was saying science will suffer if we leave.
    However switzerland and norway both pay in despite not being members.
    Leave campaign leaders have pledged to not alter science budget till 2020(source: http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2016/ju...it-funding.cfm )
    And even if for whatever reason the EU says we have to stop paying in, are the scientists really going to just stop accepting our money??
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    (Original post by elen90)
    Not a generalisation. Leave has built its campaign around misrepresentation and lies. Oh, and bigotry. I feel I can't stress that enough.

    I can already see your upcoming argument but go on.
    There were no lies told on the remain side? All they did was tell lies. Are you joking? Please tell me that you're joking.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    You do realise Switzerland and Norway have to agree to everything we've left the EU to get away from? They accept free movement and they're bound by most of its legislation (even though they don't get a say in making it).

    Have we just left the EU so we can do exactly what we were doing before, except making less money and with less influence?
    Lol Switzerland does not have open borders and free movement. Im not saying to agree to all the EU's regulations. I just said we arent just going to stop giving our money to science by leaving.
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    (Original post by YaliaV)
    There were no lies told on the remain side? All they did was tell lies. Are you joking? Please tell me that you're joking.
    Bingo, there's the argument.

    I'm disappointed in aspects of the Remain campaign too, but if you want to suggest that Leave told fewer - or even the same amount of lies, then I hope you are joking.

    Farage's £350 million a week NHS claim backtracking is a prime example. One of many to come.
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    (Original post by elen90)
    Not a generalisation. Leave has built its campaign around misrepresentation and lies. Oh, and bigotry. I feel I can't stress that enough.

    I can already see your upcoming argument but go on.
    It is a generalisation. Please point me to a lie, misrepresentation or bigoted comment i have made then.
    Or it this just another estimate without any source?
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    Yes, being outside of the EU will ruin our scientific research and drive us all into a state of retarded oblivion.

    Lets just pretend all of the following scientists, innovators and pioneers didn't exist in Europe before the existence of the EU.

    Isaac Newton
    Alexander Fleming
    Charles Darwin
    Michael Faraday
    Tim Berners-Lee
    Isambard Kingdom Brunel
    Alexander Bell
    Linus Torvalds
    Nikola Tesla
    Ada Lovelace
    Albert Einstein
    Marie Curie
    Niels Bohr
    Rene Descartes
    Louis Pasteur

    The list goes on............................

    Yes, we, and any other European country, clearly need to be part of the EU to be pioneers in the world.

    Stop talking drivel.
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    (Original post by DontVoteLabour)
    It is a generalisation. Please point me to a lie, misrepresentation or bigoted comment i have made then.
    Or it this just another estimate without any source?
    You have a talent for 'reading' my posts and then responding to nonexistent statements. I never said that you, specifically, lied. But you supported a campaign built on them, and helped it win.

    I'm not going to point you in the direction of all the TSR posts alone where people state their regret over voting Leave. And that sentiment extends far, far beyond this website. Are you going to get hung up about this for much longer?
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    (Original post by YaliaV)
    There were no lies told on the remain side? All they did was tell lies. Are you joking? Please tell me that you're joking.
    You say that, but you can't actually tell us what lies were told.

    (Original post by DontVoteLabour)
    It is a generalisation. Please point me to a lie, misrepresentation or bigoted comment i have made then.
    Or it this just another estimate without any source?
    All quotes taken from http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/, the official website for the Vote Leave campaign.
    The UK's official EU budget is about £350 million a week. That’s about the same as the cost of building a new NHS hospital every week. We get less than half of this money back, and we have no control over how it’s spent – that’s decided by politicians and officials in Brussels, not the people we elect here.
    FALSE. The UK contributes £350 million a week to the EU, but we receive back £97 million directly, as a rebate, which we can spend however we choose. We then receive back another £4.5 billion a year in EU spending. So we actually give the EU about £166 million a week. We receive back more than half of what we give, and most of it we get to spend however we want.
    We cannot stop criminals entering Britain from Europe while job creators from non-European countries are blocked.
    FALSE. The EU citizenship directive 2004 clearly states that free movement in the EU is not an unqualified right, and a country can deny people entry on grounds of "public policy, public security or public health". So no, the EU itself has explicitly stated that we can deny entry to criminals.
    The EU is in charge of our borders, immigration, asylum, and even our intelligence services.
    What the ****? Where did this even come from? FALSE. The Schengen agreement between EU countries abolishes some internal borders, allowing passport-free movement between member states. So yes, we'd have no control over our borders... except for the fact that THE UK IS NOT A PART OF THE SCHENGEN FREE MOVEMENT ZONE. We already have full control of our borders.The UK has agreed to some aspects of the Schengen agreement, such as the Schengen Information Systems. This is an agreement which allows European intelligence agencies to cooperate by sharing law enforcement data, such as information on stolen cars, missing people, and dangerous criminals. In no way whatsoever does this allow the EU to control our intelligence agencies.
    The Government’s deal doesn’t solve the benefits problem. The only way to take control is to Vote Leave.
    Benefits problem? FALSE. The "benefits problem" doesn't exist. EU immigrants are 43% less likely to claim benefits than British people, and contribute 64% more in taxes than they take in benefits (while British natives are the ONLY group that takes more in welfare than it contributes in taxes). The "benefits problem" doesn't exist, and it never has. It's entirely made up.
    You don’t have to be a member of the EU to trade with it. Countries across the world trade with the EU without being members of the EU. Switzerland is not in the EU and exports even more to the EU than we do.
    FALSE. Switzerland, while not a full member of the EU, must allow free migration from the EU, abide by all EU laws and regulations, and they pay into the EU budget. However, since they aren't full members, they get no say in making the laws and allocating the budget. Every country that has a trade agreement with the EU has a similar deal: everything the Leave campaign is telling us we want to get rid of.


    Some more, not from the website but commonly spouted by Leave lemmings:
    The EU is undemocratic
    No, it's really not. Only the European Commission can propose new legislation, but Members of European Parliament (MEPs) decide whether to pass or reject that legislation. About 10% of MEPs represent the UK. We have more MEPs than every country except Germany and France, making us one of the most powerful members of the EU.I'd say that's a hell of a lot more democratic than a monarchy, where all legislation must go through an unelected House of Lords. (HINT: That's the UK.)
    Turkey is joining the EU.
    I saw a picture of a billboard ad saying this, from the champions of truth, Vote Leave. Except... no it's not? I don't even understand this one, because it's just not true, and it has no basis in reality whatsoever. Turkey simply is not joining the EU. And if it were ever to join, the UK alone could stop that from happening.
    The EU threatens the NHS
    This is a really funny one, because the truth is actually the opposite. The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP, could make it harder to make the NHS public again if it gets privatised. The EU is negotiating new terms specifically for this - to protect public services from privatisation. The irony is that we'll be joining TTIP whether we're in the EU or not - our government has already started privatising the NHS, they've shown they're willing to harm public services for short-term profit, and the Vote Leave campaign themselves have said they want to make trade deals with other countries (which is what TTIP is). The only difference is that the EU has the negotiating power to protect our public services, while the UK on its own won't.That said, I don't really understand why anyone even believes this one. Do people honestly think that Boris Johnson and Iain Duncan Smith are looking to protect the NHS? Get real.
    David Cameron said "Europe will go to war if we leave"
    They're now resorting to fabricating quotes to try to make the Remain campaign look stupid. David Cameron literally just didn't say that. He said "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured?", which is entirely different. I actually find it quite scary how easily people will believe things, and how blatantly corrupt the media are when they're reporting quotes from our Prime Minister that he never actually said.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Yes, being outside of the EU will ruin our scientific research and drive us all into a state of retarded oblivion.

    Lets just pretend all of the following scientists, innovators and pioneers didn't exist in Europe before the existence of the EU.

    Isaac Newton
    Alexander Fleming
    Charles Darwin
    Michael Faraday
    Tim Berners-Lee
    Isambard Kingdom Brunel
    Alexander Bell
    Linus Torvalds
    Nikola Tesla
    Ada Lovelace
    Albert Einstein
    Marie Curie
    Niels Bohr
    Rene Descartes
    Louis Pasteur

    The list goes on............................

    Yes, we, and any other European country, clearly need to be part of the EU to be pioneers in the world.

    Stop talking drivel.
    What a stupid ****ing argument. "We managed okay in a completely different world a few hundred years ago, so we'll probably be fine now". Do you want to shut down all the modern universities because Isaac Newton managed without them?
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    What a stupid ****ing argument. "We managed okay in a completely different world a few hundred years ago, so we'll probably be fine now". Do you want to shut down all the modern universities because Isaac Newton managed without them?
    Some of those, like Tim Berners-Lee, were around in the 90's and he still did fine without the EU.

    Whether scientific research does well or not in the UK will depend on the government and the money it invests in the area, just as is the case with the USA, Japan and Russia - all of whom are pioneers when it comes to research. Incredible thought, isn't it?

    The good thing is thanks to leaving the EU when the UK government underfunds this area you can now hold them to account and they have no excuse. You can thank us later for increasing your power.
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    (Original post by elen90)
    You have a talent for 'reading' my posts and then responding to nonexistent statements. I never said that you, specifically, lied. But you supported a campaign built on them, and helped it win.

    I'm not going to point you in the direction of all the TSR posts alone where people a their regret over voting Leave. And that sentiment extends far, far beyond this website. Are you going to get hung up about this for much longer?
    You are right you never expressly said it, you just heavily implied it.
    You're not going to point me to the 1.7million people expressing remorse? I would think it would be a pretty hard to miss thing. Unless of course you were lying?
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    What a stupid ****ing argument. "We managed okay in a completely different world a few hundred years ago, so we'll probably be fine now". Do you want to shut down all the modern universities because Isaac Newton managed without them?
    Also all former British colonies are now going to recognise the British Empire's unequivocal supremacy and rejoin. Because that worked hundreds of years ago! Situations are totally comparable!
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    You say that, but you can't actually tell us what lies were told.



    All quotes taken from http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/, the official website for the Vote Leave campaign.FALSE. The UK contributes £350 million a week to the EU, but we receive back £97 million directly, as a rebate, which we can spend however we choose. We then receive back another £4.5 billion a year in EU spending. So we actually give the EU about £166 million a week. We receive back more than half of what we give, and most of it we get to spend however we want.FALSE. The EU citizenship directive 2004 clearly states that free movement in the EU is not an unqualified right, and a country can deny people entry on grounds of "public policy, public security or public health". So no, the EU itself has explicitly stated that we can deny entry to criminals.What the ****? Where did this even come from? FALSE. The Schengen agreement between EU countries abolishes some internal borders, allowing passport-free movement between member states. So yes, we'd have no control over our borders... except for the fact that THE UK IS NOT A PART OF THE SCHENGEN FREE MOVEMENT ZONE. We already have full control of our borders.The UK has agreed to some aspects of the Schengen agreement, such as the Schengen Information Systems. This is an agreement which allows European intelligence agencies to cooperate by sharing law enforcement data, such as information on stolen cars, missing people, and dangerous criminals. In no way whatsoever does this allow the EU to control our intelligence agencies.Benefits problem? FALSE. The "benefits problem" doesn't exist. EU immigrants are 43% less likely to claim benefits than British people, and contribute 64% more in taxes than they take in benefits (while British natives are the ONLY group that takes more in welfare than it contributes in taxes). The "benefits problem" doesn't exist, and it never has. It's entirely made up.FALSE. Switzerland, while not a full member of the EU, must allow free migration from the EU, abide by all EU laws and regulations, and they pay into the EU budget. However, since they aren't full members, they get no say in making the laws and allocating the budget. Every country that has a trade agreement with the EU has a similar deal: everything the Leave campaign is telling us we want to get rid of.


    Some more, not from the website but commonly spouted by Leave lemmings:No, it's really not. Only the European Commission can propose new legislation, but Members of European Parliament (MEPs) decide whether to pass or reject that legislation. About 10% of MEPs represent the UK. We have more MEPs than every country except Germany and France, making us one of the most powerful members of the EU.I'd say that's a hell of a lot more democratic than a monarchy, where all legislation must go through an unelected House of Lords. (HINT: That's the UK.)I saw a picture of a billboard ad saying this, from the champions of truth, Vote Leave. Except... no it's not? I don't even understand this one, because it's just not true, and it has no basis in reality whatsoever. Turkey simply is not joining the EU. And if it were ever to join, the UK alone could stop that from happening.This is a really funny one, because the truth is actually the opposite. The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP, could make it harder to make the NHS public again if it gets privatised. The EU is negotiating new terms specifically for this - to protect public services from privatisation. The irony is that we'll be joining TTIP whether we're in the EU or not - our government has already started privatising the NHS, they've shown they're willing to harm public services for short-term profit, and the Vote Leave campaign themselves have said they want to make trade deals with other countries (which is what TTIP is). The only difference is that the EU has the negotiating power to protect our public services, while the UK on its own won't.That said, I don't really understand why anyone even believes this one. Do people honestly think that Boris Johnson and Iain Duncan Smith are looking to protect the NHS? Get real.They're now resorting to fabricating quotes to try to make the Remain campaign look stupid. David Cameron literally just didn't say that. He said "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured?", which is entirely different. I actually find it quite scary how easily people will believe things, and how blatantly corrupt the media are when they're reporting quotes from our Prime Minister that he never actually said.
    I have not claimed any of these. Please bait harder
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    (Original post by DontVoteLabour)
    He was saying science will suffer if we leave.
    However switzerland and norway both pay in despite not being members.
    Leave campaign leaders have pledged to not alter science budget till 2020(source: http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2016/ju...it-funding.cfm )
    And even if for whatever reason the EU says we have to stop paying in, are the scientists really going to just stop accepting our money??
    I'd rather we conducted more research with America anyway. They are the pioneers of this generation and we should work with them to boost our status in this area.
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    (Original post by elen90)
    Also all former British colonies are now going to recognise the British Empire's unequivocal supremacy and rejoin. Because that worked hundreds of years ago! Situations are totally comparable!
    Tim Berners-Lee was a pioneer in the 90s. No need for yet more reactionary nonsense from campaign insane.
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    (Original post by DontVoteLabour)
    You are right you never expressly said it, you just heavily implied it.
    You're not going to point me to the 1.7million people expressing remorse? I would think it would be a pretty hard to miss thing. Unless of course you were lying?
    No, no I didn't. You are reading into something that was not there. Heck, I never even said you were a Leave campaign supporter to begin with - though that was heavily implied.

    Still hung up about it. Wait till you see what crawls up from under the woodworks. You think 1.7 million will collectively and publicly express their regret?

    You pick at this 10% estimation because that's all you have. That's your only argument. Much like the Brexit campaign was restricted to a very narrow set of arguments.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Tim Berners-Lee was a pioneer in the 90s. No need for yet more reactionary nonsense from campaign insane.
    Nice freshly picked cherry there.
 
 
 
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