Parliament should not invoke Article 50 - the referendum was a farce

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    As stated already, you cannot keep moving the posts until you win ahahaha
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Now the dust is starting to settle a little, it's becoming clear what has happened.

    First of all, the majority for Leave was small - almost half of the voters were against Leaving.

    Secondly, we now know that most of the big promises and offers made by the Leave campaign were false, by their own admission. This includes the alleged saving of £350m a week (they admit they lied about this) and their promises on immigration - which they also now confirm they lied about. These things had a big influence on voters.

    It is also the case that many of those voting Leave were pensioners. They will not have to live long with the consequences. We will.

    Against this background, it's completely unacceptable for Parliament to surrender to ignorance and orchestrated right wing manipulative politics designed to bring in a deeper austerity agenda under Johnson and Gove.

    We must contact our MPs and tell them that we cannot and do not accept that they should vote through the invoking of Article 50, to begin the process of leaving the EU. Instead, we should have a Royal Commission or similar to enquire properly into what it would mean to leave the EU and there should be a declaration that there will be a 5-year moratorium on action until more time for reflection has been had.

    Suck it. You lost. Tough chit.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I voted Remain, but this is nonsense. Though hardly a surprise, coming from a pseudo-democrat like you.

    'America was too important to be left to democracy', my ass. It's a wonder how you pack this much cognitive dissonance into one brain.
    There really is nothing else to be said
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Now the dust is starting to settle a little, it's becoming clear what has happened.

    First of all, the majority for Leave was small - almost half of the voters were against Leaving.

    Secondly, we now know that most of the big promises and offers made by the Leave campaign were false, by their own admission. This includes the alleged saving of £350m a week (they admit they lied about this) and their promises on immigration - which they also now confirm they lied about. These things had a big influence on voters.

    It is also the case that many of those voting Leave were pensioners. They will not have to live long with the consequences. We will.

    Against this background, it's completely unacceptable for Parliament to surrender to ignorance and orchestrated right wing manipulative politics designed to bring in a deeper austerity agenda under Johnson and Gove.

    We must contact our MPs and tell them that we cannot and do not accept that they should vote through the invoking of Article 50, to begin the process of leaving the EU. Instead, we should have a Royal Commission or similar to enquire properly into what it would mean to leave the EU and there should be a declaration that there will be a 5-year moratorium on action until more time for reflection has been had.
    Fine.

    But stop saying you support Democracy because you don't.

    Saying you support Parliamentarianism over things like referendums does not make you a democrat. You support that because it is less democratic. You may well be right, but you are not being a democrat here.

    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Why is it in any way undemocratic? Parliament is supreme in our democracy. Referendums are not part of our system and in this case, as we can see, the process of the referendum has been used to dupe, deceive and manipulate the ignorant and the uninvolved into a decision that is profoundly negative and unthought-through.Note that I have the support of Boris Johnson, who said yesterday that there was no rush to invoke Article 50.
    oxymoron.

    Parliament being supreme makes our democracy very limited. This referendum may well prove why that is how it should be but you can not call that democratic beyond the meagre democracy in a our system.

    We have a limited democracy which you prefer over more direct democracy such as referendums.

    Anyway. Parliament is still supreme. Parliament can still hold referendums if it wishes, it is its choice after all. They can still choose to ignore the people after asking the question. But that will have other political ramifications. In the most extreme situations that kind of affront to the plebs leads to revolutions and other very politically volatile situations. The Parliament with it's supremacy will probably decide they should listen to the people.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Parliament is supreme in our democracy. .
    Parliament, as you very well know, decided to hand this decision over to the electorate in the form of an election. All the rules were set by parliament, the timetable was set by parliament, so we can rest assured that our supreme decision-making body was happy with what it set up.

    You are attempting to subvert's the decision of our supreme legislative body.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's going to be completely unacceptable to large numbers of people to watch Parliament nodding this through like a stupid donkey.

    I think we are going to have to demand that Parliament listens to us, in very large numbers, come the actual decision on this.
    Are you seriously that Machiavellian?!

    The whole reason for this Referendum was for Parliament to hear us. :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Now the dust is starting to settle a little, it's becoming clear what has happened.

    First of all, the majority for Leave was small - almost half of the voters were against Leaving.

    Secondly, we now know that most of the big promises and offers made by the Leave campaign were false, by their own admission. This includes the alleged saving of £350m a week (they admit they lied about this) and their promises on immigration - which they also now confirm they lied about. These things had a big influence on voters.

    It is also the case that many of those voting Leave were pensioners. They will not have to live long with the consequences. We will.

    Against this background, it's completely unacceptable for Parliament to surrender to ignorance and orchestrated right wing manipulative politics designed to bring in a deeper austerity agenda under Johnson and Gove.

    We must contact our MPs and tell them that we cannot and do not accept that they should vote through the invoking of Article 50, to begin the process of leaving the EU. Instead, we should have a Royal Commission or similar to enquire properly into what it would mean to leave the EU and there should be a declaration that there will be a 5-year moratorium on action until more time for reflection has been had.
    We as remain voters lost and we lost by more than one and half million votes, there is a clear mandate to leave.

    Every one of your embarrassing threads since this result can be summed up as iamverysmartdemocacyislame.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Now the dust is starting to settle a little, it's becoming clear what has happened.

    First of all, the majority for Leave was small - almost half of the voters were against Leaving.

    Secondly, we now know that most of the big promises and offers made by the Leave campaign were false, by their own admission. This includes the alleged saving of £350m a week (they admit they lied about this) and their promises on immigration - which they also now confirm they lied about. These things had a big influence on voters.

    It is also the case that many of those voting Leave were pensioners. They will not have to live long with the consequences. We will.

    Against this background, it's completely unacceptable for Parliament to surrender to ignorance and orchestrated right wing manipulative politics designed to bring in a deeper austerity agenda under Johnson and Gove.

    We must contact our MPs and tell them that we cannot and do not accept that they should vote through the invoking of Article 50, to begin the process of leaving the EU. Instead, we should have a Royal Commission or similar to enquire properly into what it would mean to leave the EU and there should be a declaration that there will be a 5-year moratorium on action until more time for reflection has been had.
    What consequences of leaving the EU ?

    Also, if we didn't extend voter registration, it would have been 58-42 per cent to leave.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    if we didn't extend voter registration, it would have been 58-42 per cent to leave.
    How can you possibly know this? :confused:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    How can you possibly know this? :confused:

    Cameron let 2 million voters register last minute, MOST of them were remainers.
    He never would have extended it for "leave" voters.

    Also, "leave" voters were far more passionate and wouldn't register last minute.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    Cameron let 2 million voters register last minute, MOST of them were remainers.
    And how do you know this?
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    And how do you know this?
    Because he would not have extended the voting phase if he knew they were voting leave.
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    "Pro-EU MPs could even argue, ironically, that ignoring the public's will would be parliamentary sovereignty in practice — something that Leave campaigners argue has been conceded to Brussels."

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/green-...16-6?r=US&IR=T




    I'd love to see the look on Brexiters' faces when they realised how the UK isn't this democratic paradise that would finally be realised if we just left the EU. Instead we are a very undemocratic society :rofl:
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    Because he would not have extended the voting phase if he knew they were voting leave.
    That doesn't answer the question, and is little more than conjecture - the Prime Minister could not have known whether or how many voters would register in the extended registration period, nor how they intended to vote. You're standing on very thin logical ground here.

    Conspiracy theories are usually the preserve of the losing side, so do lay off them.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    That you can't accept that shows what a truly narrow minded individual you are. It's really very sad.
    And there's plenty more of them as well.

    The fact they have such utter contempt for democracy just proves that we were right to not go down the path they wanted to. There are so many alarming things with them. They are arrogant, have utter contempt for democracy and anyone who does not share their opinion and believe they are superior in every way.

    They have more in common with the Soviets and Nazis they claim to hate than they'd like to admit. Self proclaimed liberals are some of the most disgustingly fascist people there are.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's going to be completely unacceptable to large numbers of people to watch Parliament nodding this through like a stupid donkey.

    I think we are going to have to demand that Parliament listens to us, in very large numbers, come the actual decision on this.

    We cannot let the country sleep-walk into the stupidest decision for a great many years merely to satisfy the egotistical rantings of nobs like Nigel Farage.
    As in force them to go against the majority of voters just to appease the minority?? Sure, that's very democratic of you.
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    (Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
    'I hate democracy and we should keep having referendums until Remain wins'
    "Lets have a referendum where we can manipulate the voting demographics and only have Remain as an option - democracy!"
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Full of Suprises you need to look at the racist map.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

    Here you will find that all Labour's northern heartlands have turned anti-EU.

    You will be out manned.
    Over the years people in the North have become increasingly anti immigration. Even big northern cities. It's not only natives who voted out it's the same case with second/3rd generation Asians. Just yesterday my asian friend who lives in the north was shouted at in the street and told to go back home
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    "Lets have a referendum where we can manipulate the voting demographics and only have Remain as an option - democracy!"
    That awkward moment when OP's vision of democracy is identical to what's seen in Putin's Russia and Assad's Syria.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    Or to save time of everyone contacting their individual MPs we could just have everyone contact a single point? Perhaps simplify that contact so it's just a yes/no decision? We could call it a national referendum and then accept that the majority will decide what they wish to happen..
    Do you not think that as a first step in that process, giving people generally accurate information might not be the best thing? Instead of pumping their heads full of carefully planned deliberate lies?
 
 
 
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