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I voted leave but hope we have a Switzerland type deal Watch

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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Can you please stop spreading this complete lie. It is not like being in the EU without influence at all.
    The point most people miss about this is when we export to the US we have to comply with US product regulations, when we export to China we have to comply with theirs etc, this is a central point of exporting.

    The difference with the EU was that we had to apply their regulations to our domestic market as well, so the labour market rules have to apply to hairdressers etc who will never export. Now there are some arguments for why that makes the single market work better, but it is accepting a compromise on sovereignty when those rules may not be things we want. So outside, yes we will have to accept their rules when we export to their markets but we don't have to apply their rules to ours. They have to comply with ours when they export to us.

    There is one argument about influence that will be relevant though over time, that the UK was generally a force for opening up markets and doing better regulation in the EU. It had to persuade and call in favours to get things done but at least that voice was there (alongside some other generally open countries from Northern Europe). When we are out there's a danger it will be dominated by the southern European countries who are much more likely to favour vested interest groups. So this might mean that we start to see the regulations that affect our exports to the EU are more annoying and the Germans might think FFS it was better when the UK was in here and we had a voice of sense.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    There is one argument about influence that will be relevant though over time, that the UK was generally a force for opening up markets and doing better regulation in the EU. It had to persuade and call in favours to get things done but at least that voice was there (alongside some other generally open countries from Northern Europe). When we are out there's a danger it will be dominated by the southern European countries who are much more likely to favour vested interest groups. So this might mean that we start to see the regulations that affect our exports to the EU are more annoying and the Germans might think FFS it was better when the UK was in here and we had a voice of sense.
    The solution here is to restructure our economy so there is more of a shift towards production and exporting whilst also rebalancing our trade across the world so if the Eurozone does take a hit or does something we dislike we are in a position whereby it will not disrupt us as much as putting all of our eggs in one basket. For example, some of the vetoes on trade deals were astounding and it stopped us from buying cheaper produce around the world driving down the cost of living in certain areas and making life more affordable, something desperately needed when wages were stagnant or not growing at the same rate.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Can you please stop spreading this complete lie. It is not like being in the EU without influence at all.

    EU countries are bound to the same FTA's as those within the EU so we have to wait through an agonising process of roughly 10 years per trade deal to engage in the wider world.

    With EFTA we will be able to arrange our own on our terms and any deals with the wider world will not be subject to EU law at all. Those FTA's will be subject to the terms agreed between both negotiating parties. Only our FTA with the European Common Market will be subject to EU law and regulations.
    This was about the single market. If we wish to operate within it we will have to follow EU law, make a monetary contribution ot the EU and accpet the free mobement of people. All things Brexiters oppose.
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    Even though I voted remain, If we end up keeping the free movement, still paying money in, still following some EU rules yet with zero influence I will be furious because I thought the majority voted out because they wanted rid of these things?

    Furthermore, leaving the EU will have to sting. If they make a deal too nice they risk their union. It's going to have to hurt enough to show the consequences of leaving.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    This was about the single market. If we wish to operate within it we will have to follow EU law, make a monetary contribution ot the EU and accpet the free mobement of people. All things Brexiters oppose.
    Only when dealing with the European market. Currently, we have to deal with it outside as well. To suggest it is the same is totally misleading. You have no idea what you're on about.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Only when dealing with the European market. Currently, we have to deal with it outside as well. To suggest it is the same is totally misleading. You have no idea what you're on about.
    I was talking about the single market. You need to make up your mind whether you want in or not.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    I was talking about the single market. You need to make up your mind whether you want in or not.
    I want a bilateral trade agreement with it. How hard is that to understand? The decision is not as binary as you're trying to make it out to be.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    The solution here is to restructure our economy so there is more of a shift towards production and exporting whilst also rebalancing our trade across the world so if the Eurozone does take a hit or does something we dislike we are in a position whereby it will not disrupt us as much as putting all of our eggs in one basket. For example, some of the vetoes on trade deals were astounding and it stopped us from buying cheaper produce around the world driving down the cost of living in certain areas and making life more affordable, something desperately needed when wages were stagnant or not growing at the same rate.
    I agree.

    One of the issues for us in a common trade policy is we're largely a services economy, and most of the big EU member states are largely manufacturing, goods exporting economies. The EU was never as enthusiastic about services even within the single market as we were although we were trying to drive things through.

    A problem we are going to have in negotiations is that whilst it would be good to rebalance our economy towards other forms of production, currently we are mainly a services exporter, and we need to get the passport for services which Switzerland doesn't have. We are going to have to give away a lot of chips to get that, and I think we will end up sacrificing free movement to get that, plus paying in, which won't be acceptable to many Brexit voters!
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    A problem we are going to have in negotiations is that whilst it would be good to rebalance our economy towards other forms of production, currently we are mainly a services exporter, and we need to get the passport for services which Switzerland doesn't have. We are going to have to give away a lot of chips to get that, and I think we will end up sacrificing free movement to get that, plus paying in, which won't be acceptable to many Brexit voters!
    Agreed completely. I think we'll probably have to agree to helping Greece out or taking more migrants and resettling those currently entering the EU, which would also annoy them, but I'm beyond the point of caring now what they want as they have not covered themselves in glory since the referendum result.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    I want a bilateral trade agreement with it. How hard is that to understand? The decision is not as binary as you're trying to make it out to be.
    You think you will get a trade agreement which allows access to the single market, but doesnt require is to make contributions to the EU, doesnt include free movement and wont require is to comply with EU law in terms of the single market?

    They have already said it includes free movement.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    Yes a Swiss type deal is the best way to go. Less regulation but still we can access the single market and the world.
    Also just found out Iceland has a free Trade Agreement with the EU that could be a better option. Even Turkey has a free custom deal with the EU.
    Iceland is a member of the EEA.

    Switzerland does implement over 90% of all EU regulations.
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    (Original post by Alfissti)
    Iceland is a member of the EEA.

    Switzerland does implement over 90% of all EU regulations.
    But Switzerland can trade with the rest of the world. I remember eating Swiss Biscuits in Dubai for example
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You think you will get a trade agreement which allows access to the single market, but doesnt require is to make contributions to the EU, doesnt include free movement and wont require is to comply with EU law in terms of the single market?

    They have already said it includes free movement.
    I don't have an issue with free movement. What is your point? The point is, we will only be subject to EU law when dealing with the European market with a bilateral trade agreement, whereas in the EEA we'll always be subject to EU law regardless of who we do business with.

    (Original post by Alfissti)
    Switzerland does implement over 90% of all EU regulations.
    Only when dealing with the European market as its outside the EEA. When dealing with other countries it does not have to apply them.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    But Switzerland can trade with the rest of the world
    They don't get it. They are too stupid.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    They don't get it. They are too stupid.
    People are panicking because they don't understand how EU and trade work. A quick google search should confirm this
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    I haven't quite decided if a Norway or Swiss model are the routes to go. I mean if this was it there seriously wasn't much to gain by leaving the EU, in some ways it might even be less democratic IMO, now the rules from EU will come about without any UK input.

    Not sure why anyone believes being an EEA member or part of EFTA equals less business regulations because UK has less regulations on trade than Norway does across many sectors.

    Also both Norway and Switzerland pays a lot of money to be in the single market, I'm sure this entry fees won't be cheap for UK as the EU isn't exactly that stupid.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I'm with the OP as somebody that voted Leave and would be broadly happy with EFTA, infact i more or less voted for it and would have voted to Remain if i thought the Tories would actually leave the single market.

    Regarding immigration i think we will end up compromising however free movement could be redressed to something like a quota system with an opt out for new member states. The quota would still be high enough that most current immigrants are not effected but it would place a CAP that may lower overtime as current EU states become more prosperous.
    I don't really understand this way of thinking. At least the xenophobic Leavers who voted out to stop immigration did so for a reason. A Switzerland deal is arguably worse for this country, much worse, for two reasons;

    1. A Switzerland deal means staying out of the political union. This means, that there will be no EU elections in the UK, and if Turkey (they won't) were to to be close to joining the EU, we would not be able to veto them. In fact, we won't be able to veto any new member state, because Norway and Switzerland can't. This means LESS power than we already had before. This means having no political power. This means the EU making decisions and us not being a part of the decision making. This means us not receiving EU funding (meaning Cornwall and other uneducated working class areas will be fuked). This means us not getting the benefits of environmental laws.

    Having that said, I'll laugh forever if the UK does a Switzerland, because of people like this.
    https://www.facebook.com/Channel4New...3842562976939/
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Agreed completely. I think we'll probably have to agree to helping Greece out or taking more migrants and resettling those currently entering the EU, which would also annoy them, but I'm beyond the point of caring now what they want as they have not covered themselves in glory since the referendum result.
    That's a good point, this migration crisis isn't going away any time soon and if there's a big influx while we're doing negotiations they are going to probably demand UK starts taking more refugees in exchange for any concessions on a deal.

    Also thinking about the dirty politics of this, the Conservatives might make a political calculation that striking a deal that includes free movement in exchange for good market access will harm Labour more than them if it ends up driving people in to the hands of UKIP. Middle England Eurosceptics will be happy at reclaiming a lot of sovereignty whilst keeping a good deal for business and whilst working classes with anger against immigration will call the Conservative government sell outs, they will turn their fire on the general "Westminister elite" and vote UKIP instead of Labour. But these will largely be Labour voters.
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    If you think we're gonna get any kind of nice deal you're going to be disappointed. Upon leaving the EU we will be treated harshly and made an example of to deter other countries from getting the same idea. Yet another thing leave voters did not think through.
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    (Original post by Alfissti)
    I haven't quite decided if a Norway or Swiss model are the routes to go. I mean if this was it there seriously wasn't much to gain by leaving the EU, in some ways it might even be less democratic IMO, now the rules from EU will come about without any UK input.

    Not sure why anyone believes being an EEA member or part of EFTA equals less business regulations because UK has less regulations on trade than Norway does across many sectors.
    The Norway/Switzerland model means you only have to comply with their product regulations when you export to the EU. You don't have to apply their regulations in the domestic market, including their labour market regulations.

    In the EU, you might have a business that never exports as your entire market is within the UK, but you have to apply all EU regulation in full.
 
 
 
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