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    (Original post by Sisuphos)
    What does free trade in goods mean? no tariffs? maybe. No regulations? not a chance. And as I said, what makes trading difficult are not high tariffs but rather complex and numerous regulations.
    Any products we sell would still have to conform to EU regulations, I'm not claiming otherwise.

    Its free movement of services that really matters anyway since our economy is 80% services and we aren't going to get that without the single market and free movement that comes with it.
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    (Original post by Sisuphos)
    But, again, you assume that most EU countries would have free trade with the rest of the world if it weren't for the common market. Historically, that's extreme nonsense. They erect huge barriers.

    So the question is not whether the world is free trade when the EU doesn't exist and no country has external barriers to trade. That's a fantasy world that never existed and as far as I can see, it won't exist in the future. The question is whether, given how protectionist Germany, France, Italy have always been, whether the EU promotes freer trade. IMO, the answer to that is clearly yes.

    And btw, tariffs is not a major issue. Overall, and again, compared to the past, trade tariffs are quite low even worldwide (WTO rules). It's the regulations that are complicated and so numerous that it makes it impossible for countries to trade easily.
    Historically we lived in a protectionist world with massive tariffs, not the rather open low tariff world we live in now. It's not unreasonable to think that many of the EU nations would have high free trade levels if the likes of Switzerland, Chile, Singapore, etc are anything to go by.

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    Such a difference between the Euro and the EU, France undoubtedly would be better off outside the Euro, as would much of Europe now. Alas, their leaders have tied the two inextricably together.

    I don't think they will get the referendum because Le Pen will get defeated in the second round and the establishment of France will never permit it. They are not as foolish as Cameron.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Such a difference between the Euro and the EU, France undoubtedly would be better off outside the Euro, as would much of Europe now. Alas, their leaders have tied the two inextricably together.

    I don't think they will get the referendum because Le Pen will get defeated in the second round and the establishment of France will never permit it. They are not as foolish as Cameron.
    You mean they're more committed to a dying project, whether the populace want to be or not

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You mean they're more committed to a dying project, whether the populace want to be or not

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    We weren't in the Euro, which was the key problem, so were pretty much immune anyway, as even if the Euro crashes out and Europe goes into meltdown, the effects would be about the same in or out for us. The problem for France is very different, they are completely wedded to the Euro system and their banks will pretty much melt if there's a chaotic exit.
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    People honestly think that calling the EU nazis and encouraging the EU to break up (doing putins dirty work for him) is going to help Europe and allow the UK to get a good deal.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-like-greece/

    Jesus Christ, and when the EU trashes us you're all going to be like, see how evil they are.

    It's like trashing your co owned house, taking a **** on the floor, calling the other tenants lying thieves, leaving and then wondering why you're not invited back again.
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    Hopefully in a few years time the EU won't exist anymore because every country would have left it.
    Britain has started the domino effect.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    People honestly think that calling the EU nazis and encouraging the EU to break up (doing putins dirty work for him) is going to help Europe and allow the UK to get a good deal.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-like-greece/

    Jesus Christ, and when the EU trashes us you're all going to be like, see how evil they are.

    It's like trashing your co owned house, taking a **** on the floor, calling the other tenants lying thieves, leaving and then wondering why you're not invited back again.
    Would you care to show us a map of what a Europe broken up would be? Who is going to do all the work to tear the continent asunder and distribute it around the world?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Would you care to show us a map of what a Europe broken up would be? Who is going to do all the work to tear the continent asunder and distribute it around the world?
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    Did i say the Europe or did I Say the EU?

    Breaking up the UK wouldn't change the map but it would have consequences.
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    Do you understand French politics? The main group calling for a French exit make UKIP look socialist
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Do you understand French politics? The main group calling for a French exit make UKIP look socialist
    Even better, although UKIP aren't that right wing anyway

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