Why England are rubbish at football tournaments

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    The fact that so many players got into the squad by virtue of the club they play for as opposed to form/merit.
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    True but Iceland do not have a team of well paid players

    Although wages in England are astronomical compared to Geramany for example
    But which England players are really paid crazy sums by football standards? Sterling and Rooney are probably the only two paid huge amounts. Germany still have players like Ozil, Muller, Schweinsteiger. Spain, Italy, France and Germany would be the same


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    But which England players are really paid crazy sums by football standards? Sterling and Rooney are probably the only two paid huge amounts. Germany still have players like Ozil, Muller, Schweinsteiger. Spain, Italy, France and Germany would be the same


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    I swear Milner is still paid pretty handsomely (considering his previous club was Man City), and Wilshere I believe is already on 90k despite playing just twice for Arsenal last season. Vardy only recently "stole" a 100k contract from Leicester so he wasn't focused on the Euros at all (barring that 1 goal)
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    I've always said on here and off what this man quan just said:



    Oi stop stealing everything I've ever said about English football like I never said it yea. I even quoted you saying this with a link to an article and heard crickets.

    Rk2k14 say something. It's not just me saying it. Read the bold.


    And the bold bit would get me e-slaughtered on here but apparently it's a popular theory besides me saying it.
    2 guys saying it so must be true. Thought I already proved your lack of football knowledge.

    Team was good enough to beat Iceland lol and get to the quarter final. **** manager who didn't even know his strongest team going into the tournament, poor team selections and all round incompetence.

    We had a more than capable squad but lets blame the foreign players.
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    Did I seriously just see someone suggesting Kieran Gibbs and an injured Oxlade Chamberlain who hasn't played 90 minutes since 2007 get called up?

    No words

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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    The fact that so many players got into the squad by virtue of the club they play for as opposed to form/merit.
    Who can you really apply that to though?

    Nobody questioned Hart's selection pre tournament. Forster there on merit
    Clyne, Walker, Smalling, Cahill, Rose, Bertrand all there on merit
    Stones there due to lack of alternatives
    Dier, Alli, Milner, Lallana, Barkley all there on merit
    Sterling there due to lack of alternatives
    Kane, Rashford, Vardy, Sturridge all there on merit

    Which leaves Rooney, Wilshere and Henderson. Or 10% of the squad.

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    England will always be **** so just forget it. Dont blame the big clubs because we've got plenty of homegrown talent, more than many other countries.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    Who can you really apply that to though?

    Nobody questioned Hart's selection pre tournament. Forster there on merit
    Clyne, Walker, Smalling, Cahill, Rose, Bertrand all there on merit
    Stones there due to lack of alternatives
    Dier, Alli, Milner, Lallana, Barkley all there on merit
    Sterling there due to lack of alternatives
    Kane, Rashford, Vardy, Sturridge all there on merit

    Which leaves Rooney, Wilshere and Henderson. Or 10% of the squad.

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    Big club bias at work and even Woy submits to it. Not picking PL winner Albrighton when he should have done since October (when Sterling started to drop off). Not even considering the likes of James Tomkins, Ryan Shawcross or even Scott Dann despite their club form.
    When some guy who plays for Cardiff City gets further in a major tournament than a team with several Spurs and Liverpool players you know the manager dun goofed.
    (oh, and Charlton and MK Dons and Reading also boast players in the QFs of this Euros. Shocking)
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    I swear Milner is still paid pretty handsomely (considering his previous club was Man City), and Wilshere I believe is already on 90k despite playing just twice for Arsenal last season. Vardy only recently "stole" a 100k contract from Leicester so he wasn't focused on the Euros at all (barring that 1 goal)
    Milner only played ten minutes? The fact that Wilshere gets paid to play football makes him overpaid in my mind. I'm not sure £100k for a guy who scored 24 league goals is overpaid especially when the circumstances are considered. It's short sighted because he won't ever be that good again.



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    Clubs are considered way more important than the national team.
    Rather go on a far east tour to make more £.
    Too many foreign players.
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    It's probably due to a lack of passion, and foresight. It doesn't help when the manager favours certain players over others on the basis of their club prestige rather than on their form or ability to fit into the football team. A good example of this was Roy Hodgson not choosing Danny Drinkwater.

    Additionally, we tend to play a rigid formation. We should stick with a 4-4-2 formation and not try to be creative and play a diamond formation. England have never been a defensive side, because the type of football that we play tends to be more attacking, so I think we should play to our strengths and play a more attacking formation.
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    Big club bias at work and even Woy submits to it. Not picking PL winner Albrighton when he should have done since October (when Sterling started to drop off). Not even considering the likes of James Tomkins, Ryan Shawcross or even Scott Dann despite their club form.
    When some guy who plays for Cardiff City gets further in a major tournament than a team with several Spurs and Liverpool players you know the manager dun goofed.
    (oh, and Charlton and MK Dons and Reading also boast players in the QFs of this Euros. Shocking)
    Palace were awful in the second half of the season. You can hardly blame anyone for that.

    It's always baffled me why Shawcross hasn't been given a chance by either Capello or Hodgson. He's been a solid Premier League defender for years.
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    I think Wilshere's inclusion in the squad is more reputation bias than big club bias. He*has been a key player for England in the past, with a staggering statistic before this World Cup of boasting something like 7 MOTM awards in 8 games or something.

    But 141 minutes of football last season is just not enough - and Hodgson has paid for his loyalty to him.*
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    (Original post by samklipas0)
    (...)
    What do you guys think?
    I think that you have put the reasons in a nutshell very well. However there are another ones in my opinion:

    In Premier League, the highest football league in England, there are just playing toooo many foreigners for the teams in it. They have still a rate of foreigners over 70%! most of them are average, that is not only a waste of money, but also a waste for the talents who might become good players, if they get the chances. I have heard that the promotion of them is quite bad. From this point of view, it is no wonder that England is failing at tournaments badly all the time, it is a consequence.

    If that is not changed in the future, England needs another 50 years to win a tournament (according to WC 1966).
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Clubs are considered way more important than the national team.
    Rather go on a far east tour to make more £.
    Too many foreign players.
    Yep, that is the biggest problem. Good to know that I am not the only one who has this view.

    (Original post by drogon)
    England will always be **** so just forget it. Dont blame the big clubs because we've got plenty of homegrown talent, more than many other countries.
    Plenty of homegrown talent is just useless when most of them are not or hardly playing in their clubs. The fact that the premier league has the greatest income in whole europe and important persons in the background who are spending money to enforce teams by (good) foreign players changes this situation not for better.
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    The problem is England chooses all the players they're expected to, whether based on what club they play for or pressure from the media/fans.

    And then don't know how to fit them all into a team that's plays well. Some players just seem like they're thrown into the line up with no idea of how they fit into the system or ignoring the fact another player could fill that role much better.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    The problem is England chooses all the players they're expected to, whether based on what club they play for or pressure from the media/fans.

    And then don't know how to fit them all into a team that's plays well. Some players just seem like they're thrown into the line up with no idea of how they fit into the system or ignoring the fact another player could fill that role much better.
    I agree with this. It seems like tactical understanding is always missing. It took years to realise Lampard and Gerrard didn't work without a holding midfielder. Now we play a holding midfielder but it seemed like Roy Hodgson felt obliged to play Rooney (despite him doing nothing for England or Man Utd for years) so he was just wedged in


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    The problem is the manager has much less control and co operation. Look at germany and Spain they have players going right from under 21 and they know how to play as a team together. There is a big fight from the clubs to pay them big wages and in reurn they play many more matches, no winter break and technically most of our players are poor. This means when tounament comes round we just try and throw together a team of whoever is ok at the moment and expect it to work.

    Clubs dont care much whether players do well at international level.

    You are going to need an exceptional manager that is able to motivate the prima donnas and is an excellent man manager.
    Can work within the constraints of the English game.
    Tactically astute.

    I cant see any of the English managers being good enough. Not many to choose from and they arent given a chance in the PL.
    Means Foreign.

    Ancelotti was awround for a while.
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    (Original post by Kallisto)
    I think that you have put the reasons in a nutshell very well. However there are another ones in my opinion:

    In Premier League, the highest football league in England, there are just playing toooo many foreigners for the teams in it. They have still a rate of foreigners over 70%! most of them are average, that is not only a waste of money, but also a waste for the talents who might become good players, if they get the chances....
    (Original post by Kallisto)
    Yep, that is the biggest problem. Good to know that I am not the only one who has this view.

    Plenty of homegrown talent is just useless when most of them are not or hardly playing in their clubs. The fact that the premier league has the greatest income in whole europe and important persons in the background who are spending money to enforce teams by (good) foreign players changes this situation not for better.
    Do you really believe if there was an English Player as good as Aguero, he won't be picked over him for Man City's regular 11?.

    Do you believe if there was an English manager as good as Sir Alex or Klopp, he won't be managing Man Utd or Liverpool right now?

    Are you saying that if no foreign players existed in PL clubs, England would have better players to select from.

    Notice that the worse clubs in the country have the most local players, the further down the English football tier you go; from PL to Championship to other downwards, the more local players you see. If they're were no foreign talent in the Premier League, wouldn't the average championship-quality local players be the new PL talent?.

    Think about it this way, England is the ONLY national team that regularly qualifies for Major Tournaments with ALL their players in THEIR TOP LOCAL LEAGUE clubs; the league where they make most of the MONEY, yet they can't win for ****. While the other teams like France, Germany, Italy,etc, are more diversified individually in terms of clubs and top-tier national leagues, giving them more experiences with different styles of play.

    So if anything, English players should be leaving their local comfort zones a lot more if they want to better themselves, for starters.

    BOTTOM LINE: The Foreign players are a majority because Local players are ****. Anyone who denies this is either biased or stupid.
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    Wales just **** all over the above poster's point. Half of their squad came from the English championship or below, thus played a minimum of 48 club games a season. They also proved that their squad isn't all about their £86m man.

    So basically, to have an England squad that plays for each other, we should be calling up bottom half premier league players and top half championship players as they're unlikely to care more about their pay packet than their performance on the pitch
 
 
 
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