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    (Original post by jake4198)
    Scotland are a tiny country with about five million people. Given their terrible public finances, no wonder the EU don't want them to join.
    They are being vetoed over domestic politics, but the reasons you gave would stop them joining in the first place. They will be guaranteed to not be given access for 3 years after independence due to central bank related criteria, even after 3 years their deficit probably won't be under control enough holding them back further, and then we come to Spain vetoing due to their own independence issues.

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    the easy way out of this conundrum :

    the UK stays in the EU, but England and Wales leave

    this has been done before : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenl...nion_relations

    it would be the "reverse Greenland" solution
    Which has already been ruled out


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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    They've not said anything about welcoming an independent Scotland into the EU... yet
    Rajoy said that today:
    "I want to be very clear: Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union. Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of the United Kingdom,” he told a news conference following a summit of European leaders in Brussels.

    “I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves … Scotland leaves."
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...hy-little-hope

    Good luck to Nicola.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    It would be rather amusing if all the Leave voters who said they wanted to secure Britain's future end up literally cutting the nation in half instead. I wonder how much they'll love borders when it means needing a passport and a visa before they get on a train...
    You already need a passport to take the Eurostar.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No surprise there - Spain is trying to stop regionalist breakaways from Catalan and Basque nationalists and France has Bretons and Corsicans to worry about.
    Bretons are not a threat for French unity. :lol: It's a folklore thing.

    Corsican nationalists are more annoying now that they won the regional election though.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    You already need a passport to take the Eurostar.
    True, but jokes aside if it ever happened it'd be interesting to see how they managed it with trains that go all the way from London or the South West to Scotland. I could easily get on a train at Penzance, only intending to go to Truro - but that train would eventually end up in Scotland and hence the EU. Sounds like a logistical nightmare.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    True, but jokes aside if it ever happened it'd be interesting to see how they managed it with trains that go all the way from London or the South West to Scotland. I could easily get on a train at Penzance, only intending to go to Truro - but that train would eventually end up in Scotland and hence the EU. Sounds like a logistical nightmare.
    The same way that cross border trains do it now: passports are checked at or near the border...
    That is how cross border travel works after all

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    It should be interesting having a land border with the EU to police instead of just the Channel. The border with the Republic of Ireland is about 300 miles I believe. We've never managed to stop movement across it in 1,000 years.

    Apparently the Calais problem will now be moved to Dover etc. as the French will refuse to deal with it any more.

    On the plus side (?) judging by the rush of applications for Irish passports even from Protestant areas of Northern Ireland, we could have a united Ireland faster than any thought possible. The British Government has always said it would bow to public pressure if a majority of the Northern Irish people voted to join the Republic. Oh, the irony of the law of unintended consequences. We spend 1,000 years trying to sort out the Irish question and stop Ireland being independent from England and it could all happen with hardly a murmur. You have to smile.
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    (Original post by pickup)
    It should be interesting having a land border with the EU to police instead of just the Channel. The border with the Republic of Ireland is about 300 miles I believe. We've never managed to stop movement across it in 1,000 years.

    Apparently the Calais problem will now be moved to Dover etc. as the French will refuse to deal with it any more.

    On the plus side (?) judging by the rush of applications for Irish passports even from Protestant areas of Northern Ireland, we could have a united Ireland faster than any thought possible. The British Government has always said it would bow to public pressure if a majority of the Northern Irish people voted to join the Republic. Oh, the irony of the law of unintended consequences. We spend 1,000 years trying to sort out the Irish question and stop Ireland being independent from England and it could all happen with hardly a murmur. You have to smile.
    To be fair, in the last 1000 years have we ever WANTED to stop movement across it? Until less than a hundred years ago it didn't exist, since then we have never really wanted to control it.

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    So Scotland could be free of BOTH England and the EU?

    Things get even better.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    To be fair, in the last 1000 years have we ever WANTED to stop movement across it? Until less than a hundred years ago it didn't exist, since then we have never really wanted to control it.

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    I think you may be right to a degree - what I meant was we've never been able to control movement of hostile groups across Ireland in 1,000 years. We certainly did want to control the movement of the various and many Irish Rebels over the centuries and specifically movement across the existing border when the IRA was active and using the ROI as a refuge after the partition.

    Notoriously we never managed it though, did we? so it will be interesting to see how we fare trying to stop people from the EU traipsing across. Should bolster the income of the locals though - showing the right places for a small ( or large ) fee. Or are we going to build a 300 mile long wall with check points at intervals? There'll be plenty of job creation in the Irish passport offices in the next few years - they're getting swamped already as they are appealing for people to delay applications while the office copes.
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    (Original post by pickup)
    I think you may be right to a degree - what I meant was we've never been able to control movement of hostile groups across Ireland in 1,000 years. We certainly did want to control the movement of the various and many Irish Rebels over the centuries and specifically movement across the existing border when the IRA was active and using the ROI as a refuge after the partition.

    Notoriously we never managed it though, did we?
    Bit that's like saying we can't control movement of undesirables from London to Scotland very well, I mean the SNP are incredibly good at it

    Point aside, when you don't have the controls in place is it surprising that there is little control of undesirables, in some respects the UK and RoI are still one thing with two independent governmentally

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The same way that cross border trains do it now: passports are checked at or near the border...
    That is how cross border travel works after all

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    Not so much in Europe, where the train will just go right through. It'll cause a lot of unnecessary delay and expense. They would quite possibly end up having to take everyone off the train, to go through a border check, and then get back on. That won't be fun.
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    (Original post by pickup)
    It should be interesting having a land border with the EU to police instead of just the Channel. The border with the Republic of Ireland is about 300 miles I believe. We've never managed to stop movement across it in 1,000 years.

    Apparently the Calais problem will now be moved to Dover etc. as the French will refuse to deal with it any more.

    On the plus side (?) judging by the rush of applications for Irish passports even from Protestant areas of Northern Ireland, we could have a united Ireland faster than any thought possible. The British Government has always said it would bow to public pressure if a majority of the Northern Irish people voted to join the Republic. Oh, the irony of the law of unintended consequences. We spend 1,000 years trying to sort out the Irish question and stop Ireland being independent from England and it could all happen with hardly a murmur. You have to smile.
    The French have already said the border arrangements will stay as they are.

    The easiest solution to the Ireland border issue is not to have one at all and just have passport control for mainland travel


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    (Original post by cbblitz)
    So Scotland could be free of BOTH England and the EU?

    Things get even better.
    No, you haven't been reading this thread have you.


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    And Michael Gove said he wouldn't go for Prime Minister...
    Point is- can't always trust Politicians, they could change their mind a couple weeks later. :shifty:
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    (Original post by Shadow Hunters)
    And Michael Gove said he wouldn't go for Prime Minister...
    Point is- can't always trust Politicians, they could change their mind a couple weeks later. :shifty:
    It's obvious an issue has come up behind the scenes with gove and Johnson switching places


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    (Original post by paul514)
    It's obvious an issue has come up behind the scenes with gove and Johnson switching places


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    A wee discussion behind the scenes and Spain could change its tune, I'm just saying that you can't always trust what politicians initially say.
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    All I want to know is,

    Does this mean we will get to hear more from Nicola Sturgeon or less ?


    If more it's very bad news indeed.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Rajoy said that today:
    "I want to be very clear: Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union. Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of the United Kingdom,” he told a news conference following a summit of European leaders in Brussels.

    “I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves … Scotland leaves."
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...hy-little-hope

    Good luck to Nicola.
    He is speaking about Scotland negotiating to remain in the EU, not about an independent Scotland looking to join the EU.
 
 
 
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