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What is this 'single market' baloney? watch

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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    The US, Canada, Australia, China, Japan, South Korea - none of them are in any common markets and all of them negotiate free trade agreements with other countries. Who's to say the UK can't do the same?
    I dont know, did anyone say that?

    At the moment the US and EU are busy negotiating with each other.

    It would probably make sense if the UK secured its trading relations with its major export markets first. the ones it actually trades with.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    The EU is basically a economic prison. If you want access to the single market you have to allow other member states the 4 freedom's which are free movement of capital, goods, services and labor.
    Then if you dont agree with it, then trade as a non EU and non EFTA country. Not hard as long as you accpet or arent bothered about the consequences and disadvantages when trying to trade with the EU.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    Habeus Corpus ?
    The Habeas Corpus Act 1679 is an Act of the Parliament of England (31 Cha. 2 c. 2)[2] passed during the reign of King Charles II by what became known as the Habeas Corpus Parliament to define and strengthen the ancient prerogative writ of habeas corpus, a procedural device to force the courts to examine the lawfulness of a prisoner's detention in order to safeguard individual liberty and thus to prevent unlawful or arbitrary imprisonment

    The EU uses a different system called Corpus Juris which would take the place of our Habeus Corpus basic and fundamental "innocent until proven guilty" principle.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...m-8931215.html

    "Corpus juris, used by our continental neighbours, is not a system of justice we should be welcoming in the UK. It is alien to our beliefs of “innocent before proven guilty” and of limiting the power of the state. Once the power of law enforcement has been handed to another institution, there is no guarantee we can get it back."


    http://www.euexit.com/corpus-juris-a...ommon-law.html

    "Under British Common Law we are innocent until proven guilty and under the EU’s Corpus Juris style system we are guilty or thought to be guilty first and this is being increasingly brought into Britain by Hogan-Howe and others with the witch-hunts against celebrities. - this is not to say that guilty parties should not be subjected to the full force of the law, but only if they are found guilty after they have had a fair trial.

    The following small extract reveals some of the effects of the EU’s legal system:

    “…across the EU, people who have not been convicted of any crime are being detained without good reason for months or even years, often in appalling conditions that make trial preparation impossible…”

    and

    “…growing numbers are being extradited under the European Arrest Warrant, only to be held for months in prison, hundreds of miles from home, waiting for trial…” see “Detained without trial: Fair Trials International’s response to the European Commission’s Green Paper on detention October 2011”
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Great . . . but the price of that is to sell out the very soul of the nation and sell it down the river into a totalitarian regime in which UK citizens would no longer have any democratic vote again, where basic rights like Habeus Corpus are abolished and where the EU megastate could arrest anyone and incarcerate them without trial or jury. Thanks, but no thanks.
    Do you really think the European parliament is like that. Have you ever been? Have you ever listened to a debate? Do you even know what sort of laws they pass?

    The EU is primarily about trade. The referendum was only really about trade. However it was hoodwinked by immigration, sovereignty, antiestablishmentarianism (always wanted to use that word) and more besides. Most of the laws passed are dreary to their core and primarily deal with how to maintain a level playing field for companies competing within the Eurozone.

    Before you start ranting about the EU, at least learn a bit about it because what you have just written is total poppycock.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    What do they actually mean when they keep saying 'access to the single market'?
    I just saw an irritating article that seems a bit sus, about Cameron saying we would have to negotiate to end free movement whilst still retaining 'access to the single market'. Is this simply trade without tarriffs? And how does anyone else trade with them? Who else does this to trade partners? Japan and China? US and Canada? Australia and the Asians? Also, if we are supposed to have left, then it should just be no regular access to single market, no free movement, clean cut. Then maybe as an important trade partner we negotiate a better deal, like Canada.

    Since -

    a)We can save more money being out the EU than the Tarriffs are anyhow, even with existing trade levels with the EU.
    b)The amount of trade we do with Europe vs elsewhere depends on being in the EU, we could do a lot less elsewhere at better prices when we are not bound by it.

    Why is this such a big deal, even for stability. Sod it, leavers need more conviction, we need Liam Fox, David Davis, the ones who really believe in it and have the brains and vision, I don't want a fudge and then ending up in an increasingly power crazed, centrist, bureaucratic EU.
    Essentially the single market is defined as the freedom of finance, services, labour and goods to move around the market without tariffs and knowing that their goods will be legal everywhere (packaging etc ).

    The crucial reason we need access is because of our financial services. These financial services form 75% of our economy. If a bank or financial service provider has a headquarters in the EEA (single market) they gain pas porting rights. These rights allow them to offer their services all across the whilst being regulated by just the country where their HQ is.

    http://www.cityam.com/244237/you-nee...st-Brexit-vote
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    The US, Canada, Australia, China, Japan, South Korea - none of them are in any common markets and all of them negotiate free trade agreements with other countries. Who's to say the UK can't do the same?
    I only understand the Canada deal at this exact moment in time but.
    Disadvantages:
    Deal took 10years still not activated
    Does not cover financial services 75% of our economy
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Smh, this is the most important economic issue relating to leaving and you're asking the question after the referendum.:confused:
    he may have voted for remain, or simply not have voted at all for whatever reason
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Then if you dont agree with it, then trade as a non EU and non EFTA country. Not hard as long as you accpet or arent bothered about the consequences and disadvantages when trying to trade with the EU.
    I'm ready to take the short term pain in order to be free of tyranny.
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    (Original post by shawn_o1)
    The US, Canada, Australia, China, Japan, South Korea - none of them are in any common markets and all of them negotiate free trade agreements with other countries. Who's to say the UK can't do the same?
    hate to break it to you but they are ...

    the US and Canada, along with Mexico make up NAFTA

    Canada and the EU are currently negotiating a FTA ...
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    hate to break it to you but they are ...

    the US and Canada, along with Mexico make up NAFTA

    Canada and the EU are currently negotiating a FTA ...
    eh, aren't free trade agreements "lower" than common markets according to wiki? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...gration#Stages
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Other countries deal with it by setting up subsidiary companies within the EU.

    If you just want to leave without any agreement and no favourable terms on access to the single market, then you put Britain at a distinct disadvantage when trading in Europe.

    .
    But what does it actually mean? And we are only at a slight disadvantage, via tarriffs which are less than the membership costs, and also it is protectionist and we can get cheaper prices elsewhere, plus greater choice in who we sell to.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    I'm ready to take the short term pain in order to be free of tyranny.
    You might be, but other people have mortgages to pay and families to feed. For that they need jobs.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    The Habeas Corpus Act 1679
    thanks for this. I think that practically everyone knows about habeas corpus
    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    The EU uses a different system called Corpus Juris which would take the place of our Habeus Corpus basic and fundamental "innocent until proven guilty" principle
    on the contrary, "habeus corpus" (which you mentioned also in your previous post) is much more mysterious : but, most likely, you just repeatedly misspelled it

    with regard to the "corpus iuris" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Juris_Civilis

    however, much more relevant, with regard to civil law in the EU, is the "code Napoleon" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Code

    penal codes, however, are a different kettle of fish

    best
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Do you really think the European parliament is like that. Have you ever been? Have you ever listened to a debate? Do you even know what sort of laws they pass?

    The EU is primarily about trade.
    That's the biggest load of baloney I've read to date !

    Read the Lisbon Treaty.

    If it's just about trade, then why does the Union require ownership and control of our military and our nuclear weapons ?!
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    Th EU is the political structure. The common market is the free trade zone which the EU was formed of.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    What do they actually mean when they keep saying 'access to the single market'?
    It is more than just tariff free trade. It's not that hard to negotiate a deal which gets rid of tariffs. The single market is about having a common system of rules and being able to trade there without large compliance costs. A lot of the rules across the EU are harmonised on things like product standards, consumer rights, competition policy and so on which makes it easier to trade as if you are in the single market well the same rules of your home country apply somewhere else, you don't need to follow different standards and get used to different legal systems and so on.

    You can export in to it from outside but if you aren't part of the single market you may face some administrative costs getting stuff certificated to show you've met standards, rules of origin certificates to show that if the stuff you're selling included components that were imported from a different country, you did enough in the production process to define it as an export from your country rather than theirs etc. These aren't tariffs but they are costs to businesses. If you are given access to the single market then basically you're allowed in as a trusted trader that complies with their rules so can skip a lot of the administrative costs. This is why businesses want it.

    The difference between being in the single market, and having access to the single market (as opposed from being outside it altogether, when you can still sell in to it just you have to face compliance costs etc), is if you are in the single market (like being in the EU) you have to apply the single market rules to your own domestic market. If you just have access to it, then you can have different rules in your own market.
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    If we're not leaving the single market we're not really leaving the EU.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)

    “…across the EU, people who have not been convicted of any crime are being detained without good reason for months or even years, often in appalling conditions that make trial preparation impossible…”
    Lol.

    I like how Farage comes up with numbers or actual "facts" to back up his claims. Of course, he has none because it doesn't exist.

    People like you will go on about Europe whilst ignoring thousands of prisoners who are in jail forever regardless of the crime they commit under the abolished Indeterminate Sentences for Public Protection.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    What do they actually mean when they keep saying 'access to the single market'?
    I just saw an irritating article that seems a bit sus, about Cameron saying we would have to negotiate to end free movement whilst still retaining 'access to the single market'. Is this simply trade without tarriffs? And how does anyone else trade with them? Who else does this to trade partners? Japan and China? US and Canada? Australia and the Asians? Also, if we are supposed to have left, then it should just be no regular access to single market, no free movement, clean cut. Then maybe as an important trade partner we negotiate a better deal, like Canada.

    Since -

    a)We can save more money being out the EU than the Tarriffs are anyhow, even with existing trade levels with the EU.
    b)The amount of trade we do with Europe vs elsewhere depends on being in the EU, we could do a lot less elsewhere at better prices when we are not bound by it.

    Why is this such a big deal, even for stability. Sod it, leavers need more conviction, we need Liam Fox, David Davis, the ones who really believe in it and have the brains and vision, I don't want a fudge and then ending up in an increasingly power crazed, centrist, bureaucratic EU.
    Right. The single market is the market between EU member states. All states are subject to World Trade Organisation trade agreements, in particularly the principle called the "most favored nation" agreement- where you cannot legally discriminate against trading partners (other states). This means that basically, you cannot say you wont accept Bananas from one state because you have better ties with them and that you cannot (by international law) grant them a special favour by lowering a customs duty rate purely for them, as it has to apply to everyone. Although there are some exceptions for certain less developed states.

    However you can create agreements, like regional trading blocs (such as the EU Single Market and NAFTA) where this only agrees to goods traded within this agreement, and then you can apply tariffs to goods coming into this area (in this case the EU) which essentially means you can protect and give preferential treatment to yourself/trading bloc.

    The EU does this though specifications, such as the way fruit looks/quality issues (ie there was a case with the shape of Bananas once), although some of the rules are genuinely there to protect the consumer.

    Theoretically, if we leave the EU we would then be subjected to the Tariffs that the EU impose on non EU member states (assuming we cannot negociate access to the EU single market, which btw we would have to pay for and agree with the four freedoms, including freedom of movement). So therefore, we would only be subject to WTO regulations for trade with other states, the commonwealth trade agreements (preferential treatment, but doesnt contribute to as much trade as we do with the EU). But since two thirds of our trade is currently conducted with the EU, and the Commonwealth doesnt contribute as much of our trade as it did in the 80s (this was one of the main reasons we joined the EU in the first place) we would essentially incur more costs and have less trade, because the EU would subject us to tarrifs when trading with them so we would make less money and our products would be more expensive to purchase within the EU.

    We are still bound by the WTO in regards to trade, so you cannot just do what you want tradewise (there are heavy financial and legal penalties for this).

    Although we wouldnt have to add ADD tarrifs on imported products from China ect, but this actually doesnt make too much of a difference costwise, because most trade with China is quoted and paid in USD (I do this at work) and transport costs are also linked to the USD as oil is also traded in USD. So basically the pound has tanked against the dollar and will be weaker if we leave than what it was (this isnt to say it wont strengthen over a few years) but in the short term this means that everything has gone up. So in reality with the current situation you do not really benefit as much as you would assume.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You might be, but other people have mortgages to pay and families to feed. For that they need jobs.
    Indeed they do but they can take the short term pain now or they can loose everything they ever worked for later.What you don't understand is Britain in the EU has always been a loosing game. If we stay in the EU we loose all our national sovereignty and Germany would repeat the same mistakes of history by printing huge amounts of money though the ECB. And by leaving the EU the EU would act as a economic prison stopping Britain from trading from its neighbours there for eventually becoming a 2nd rate country.

    The future for our country is to do business with the rest of the world and ignore Europe while it comes out of the Neo-Soviet Union state.

    Putin warned us many times about this and his warnings have fell on deaf ears. Russians experienced the Totalitarian state longer than anyone else in Europe. If you really believe Russia wants world conquest you must watch to much TV. In reality the only thing Russia cares about is the welfare of its people.

    This EU empire is going to end in tears.

    But what do families do?

    1. Get a 10 year fixed mortgage.
    2. Turn the front & backyard into a urban allotment.
    3. Get a alternative mode of energy.
    4. Go back to using lifestyle items of the 1900's.
    5. Get some Chickens, Rabbits and Pygmy Goats.
    6. Build a Aquaponic set up to create liquid fertiliser.
    7. Get involved in protected agriculture.
    8. Start a dig for victory campaign in your local community.
    9. Become a doomsday prepper.
    10. Make sure you use your money wisely. Barter & Trade before using money.
 
 
 
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