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Richard Dawkins another who wants a second referendum Watch

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    Science, it works......bishes
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    I mean that a vote as close as 52-48 is pretty much going against as many people as possible, apart from a 51-49 or genuinely 50-50 vote.

    There should be a clear result for the referendum, and a second one - in the wake of the exposed Brexit lies, the exposed Tory leadership ambitions, the economic repercussions, the fragile international relations and the surge in anti-immigrant / racist hate speech, we need to be clear about our result. If we vote to leave twice, fair enough and that should be the end of it - but there are so many people who don't want to do this, possibly more support remain now, maybe not - but either way, this whole thing has been a catastrophic mess and people need to consider if hollow terms like 'democracy from controlling laws' or 'sovreignty from being independent from the EU' are really actually valuable.

    I'm sure thousands of people would have voted differently if they knew Cameron would resign, if Boris Johnson would not be leader, if these pathetic eton public school boys hadn't back peddled on their hollow promises just like they did, and if the surge in racism and the economic consequences had been clearer. Because in the 21st century, a four-word slogan, no matter how untrue or ridiculous it is, will generally beat rationalism.
    Ok fine . Just as so long as it's made perfectly clear to people that if this happens it will likely lead to UKIP picking up 3 million more working class voters leading to weaker governments for many years ,an increase in racial incidents -I don't need to explain why do I ?- all the problems that we would still have from having too many migrants and not enough housing etc and millions of people who hate the whole system.And of course we'd still be a member of an EU that can then push us around .

    That's what you want is it ? Presumably yes.
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    (Original post by ATW1)
    Even if thousands of people would change their vote, it would take well over a million to sway the vote in favour of remain. Even then, under your make-it-up-as-you-go-along rules, a 3rd referendum would be needed because it would still be extremely close. Basically, you are talking complete and utter nonsense.
    Not really, the turnout for 18-25s would increase, 16 and 17 year olds would vote majorly to remain - several tens of thousands swinging from Brexit to Remain would be needed, and that's almost certainly happened based on the pathetic actions of the leave campaign within the last few days.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    Ok fine . Just as so long as it's made perfectly clear to people that if this happens it will likely lead to UKIP picking up 3 million more working class voters leading to weaker governments for many years ,an increase in racial incidents -I don't need to explain why do I ?- all the problems that we would still have from having too many migrants and not enough housing etc and millions of people who hate the whole system.And of course we'd still be a member of an EU that can then push us around .

    That's what you want is it ? Presumably yes.
    Better than whatever future this stupid country has right now in this situation, assuming that your speculations are true.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    Personally, I think a situation where the views of 52% make the views of 48% democratically redundant is not true democracy.

    This country needs a second referendum now that it has woken up to the actual consequences, and now that the Brexit campaign has been exposed for their pathetic lies and mischief. Alongside allowing 16/17 year olds to vote.
    That is democracy in its truest form; the majority, however small, rules over the rest

    Accept it, it is democratic
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    So, why make a thread? We know the deal, condescending privileged people want the status quo. They think people are idiots for rejecting it, because they are detached from the consequences of globalism. They don't even understand the nuances of this issue, they are totally self-satisfied. NO-ONE'S LISTENING.
    I was already to give rep until I got to condescending and every word after it.

    I do think we need a second referendum - to decide if we go Norway/Swiss approach or not.

    After all it will mean free movement of people and hence uncontrolled immigration which is the sole reason many people voted leave.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    That is democracy in its truest form; the majority, however small, rules over the rest

    Accept it, it is democratic
    It's not democratic, the views of 16 million people have been thrown aside because just 4% more people voted for the other thing.

    It's democratic if there's a clear lead, there wasn't - and I doubt the figures would be the same if another referendum were given to us.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    It's not democratic, the views of 16 million people have been thrown aside because just 4% more people voted for the other thing.

    It's democratic if there's a clear lead, there wasn't - and I doubt the figures would be the same if another referendum were given to us.
    The majority got their way. That is democracy. So what if the majority was slim? Democracy doesn't care for issues like that.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    I'm very disappointed to see that. Thought better of him.
    Richard Dawkins said in another article in reference to the referendum:

    My own answer to the question is, “How should I know? I don’t have a degree in economics. Or history. How dare you entrust such an important decision to ignoramuses like me?”
    I think he is more in support of a technocracy whereby knowledgeable individuals decide the policy, and not people such as himself who aren't knowledgeable about economics. The whole debate on TSR prior to the referendum entailed people denigrating others by telling them they they were economically illiterate, which would somewhat prove Dawkins' statement.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    The majority got their way. That is democracy. So what if the majority was slim? Democracy doesn't care for issues like that.
    Ignoring the fact that pretty much all MPs, who were democratically elected to carry out decisions like this for us, supported remain. The Brexit campaign was driven by lies, the misbehaviour of the leave campaign and their back peddling should be taken into account because a large amount of the vote was based on these things which hold no value now.
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    (Original post by ATW1)
    I disagree.
    Cool... why are you telling me this?
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    Ignoring the fact that pretty much all MPs, who were democratically elected to carry out decisions like this for us, supported remain. The Brexit campaign was driven by lies, the misbehaviour of the leave campaign and their back peddling should be taken into account because a large amount of the vote was based on these things which hold no value now.
    Same happens in elections; did the LibDems, or Tories, keep to all their election pledges? Democracy doesn't care for trivial issues like this; in any case, the voters were warned about the deceit, but they decided to ignore the warnings, and voted
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    ffs, 52% is a MAJORITY...that's the criterion of "victory" in a ****ing democracy
    a slim majority is still a slim -VICTORY-
    let the issue die, my special little snowflakes!
    at least for this generation!
    there's NO way the brexiteers would be acting like this if they had lost. no ****in' way.
    sure, they'd still have it on their minds, but a second referendum to trump0 a democratic referendum? that's not exactly going to work. but I'm not exactly surprised at many remainians - they only like democracy when it suits them, just like they only like the anti-democratic EU because it happens to advance their own idiotic agenda. **** your "second referendum" - you don't even like democracy in the first place
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Cool... why are you telling me this?
    Why did you say that you agree?
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    The complainers might be mindful of the fact that we NEVER got to vote whether we joined the EU in the first place. That is the greater travesty. We should be uncovering why that was, and how UK politicians were able to make such monumentous changes without ever having the will or consent of the country's population.

    It would have been a fair situation if we had been allowed such a referendum and in the process, been properly informed of EU laws, regulations and told just how little power and influence Britain had within the EU together with the EU changes that would be likely eventually be made to our justice system.
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    Personally, I think a situation where the views of 52% make the views of 48% democratically redundant is not true democracy.

    This country needs a second referendum now that it has woken up to the actual consequences, and now that the Brexit campaign has been exposed for their pathetic lies and mischief. Alongside allowing 16/17 year olds to vote.

    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I agree.

    So if the result of the 2nd Referendum was 52% Remain and 48% Leave, would you call for a third??
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    So if the result of the 2nd Referendum was 52% Remain and 48% Leave, would you call for a third??
    tbh we should remain regardless, unless the brexit support wins by 10% margin
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    (Original post by nexttimeigetvpn)
    tbh we should remain regardless, unless the brexit support wins by 10% margin
    How very democratic.
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    Remainers still trying to block Brexit:



    They lose: "I don't think 52%/48% is true democracy."

    If they won: "YEAH! Democracy is the greatest!"

    Democracy means the majority wins and in this, rare, case we won.
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    the situation is rapidly evolving
 
 
 
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