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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    OK Einstein, how?
    You said they are true Muslims and then said they were brainwashed. How can you be true to something when you are brainwashed?... lol
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    (Original post by star80)
    In Islam, a Matyr can die in different ways , not strictly for faith.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahid

    Shahid and Shaheed (Arabic: شهيد‎‎ šahīd, plural: شُهَدَاء šuhadāʾ ) originates from the Quranic Arabic word meaning "witness" and is also used to denote a "martyr".[1] It is used as a honorific for Muslims who have died fulfilling a religious commandment, especially those who die wielding jihad, or historically in the military expansion of Islam.
    I am not sure how being in the wrong place at the wrong time constitutes this, unless there is something I misunderstand.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahid


    I am not sure how being in the wrong place at the wrong time constitutes this, unless there is something I misunderstand.
    Yeah, wikipedia doesn't tell you about Hadith and other stuff for e.g:

    2. “There are five kinds of martyrs: One who dies of plague; one who dies of a disease of the stomach or intestines; one who drowns; one who is crushed in a collapsing building; and one who is martyred in the way of Allah.” [al-Bukhari, Muslim, Malik]

    3. “He who is killed in the way of Allah is a martyr; he who dies of plague is a martyr; a woman who dies due to pregnancy and a woman who dies during delivery, her baby will drag her into Paradise with the umbilical cord.” Musnad Ahmad.

    http://sunnah.org/wp/2011/01/09/clas...ns-of-martyrs/
    Sayings of Prophet Muhammad PBUH
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    (Original post by star80)
    You said they are true Muslims and then said they were brainwashed. How can you be true to something when you are brainwashed?... lol
    Of course you can, people are misled all the time, take Shia and Sunni Muslims, they can't both be right, but they are Muslims, they have just been brainwashed into their sect.
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    (Original post by star80)
    Yeah, wikipedia doesn't tell you about Hadith and other stuff for e.g:

    2. “There are five kinds of martyrs: One who dies of plague; one who dies of a disease of the stomach or intestines; one who drowns; one who is crushed in a collapsing building; and one who is martyred in the way of Allah.” [al-Bukhari, Muslim, Malik]

    3. “He who is killed in the way of Allah is a martyr; he who dies of plague is a martyr; a woman who dies due to pregnancy and a woman who dies during delivery, her baby will drag her into Paradise with the umbilical cord.” Musnad Ahmad.

    http://sunnah.org/wp/2011/01/09/clas...ns-of-martyrs/
    Sayings of Prophet Muhammad PBUH
    Oh right thanks. I am planning on reading the Qu'ran and the Hadiths over summer so hopefully I can get a better idea of the religion in general.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    Of course you can, people are misled all the time, take Shia and Sunni Muslims, they can't both be right, but they are Muslims, they have just been brainwashed into their sect.
    You just need to know your faith:
    It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaahbe pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace andblessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who camebefore you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and thisummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one inParadise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

    That is Sunni Islam.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Oh right thanks. I am planning on reading the Qu'ran and the Hadiths over summer so hopefully I can get a better idea of the religion in general.
    No worries Good luck
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    (Original post by star80)
    You just need to know your faith:
    It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaahbe pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace andblessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who camebefore you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and thisummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one inParadise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

    That is Sunni Islam.
    What has that to do with me contradicting myself?
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    What has that to do with me contradicting myself?
    You spoke about Sunni/Shia they both claim to be right, they are both brainwashed however they aren't because it tells you what true Islam is (Sunni) So, no they are not ''true muslims''.
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    (Original post by star80)
    You spoke about Sunni/Shia they both claim to be right, they are both brainwashed however they aren't because it tells you what true Islam is (Sunni) So, no they are not ''true muslims''.
    Are you saying that Shia are not true Muslims? I think you must be brainwashed, which according to you makes YOU not a true Muslim.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    Are you saying that Shia are not true Muslims? I think you must be brainwashed, which according to you makes YOU not a true Muslim.
    Read the quote before
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    (Original post by star80)
    Read the quote before
    By any chance was this Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan a Sunni Muslim?
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    By any chance was this Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan a Sunni Muslim?
    He was a companion of the Prophet PBUH before there was this.
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    (Original post by star80)
    He was a companion of the Prophet PBUH before there was this.
    He was on Abu Bakr side, he never followed Ali at all. The fact is he was a scribe so could influence any way he wished. So what does Allah say on the Sunni/Shia divide, and what does the Koran say on the Sunni/Shia divide?

    All this thing about who is and who is not a true Muslim is annoying, why doesn't god clear up this mess?
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    He was on Abu Bakr side, he never followed Ali at all. The fact is he was a scribe so could influence any way he wished. So what does Allah say on the Sunni/Shia divide, and what does the Koran say on the Sunni/Shia divide?

    All this thing about who is and who is not a true Muslim is annoying, why doesn't god clear up this mess?
    In the time of the Prophet no one was favoured, they all followed Muhammad PBUH. The conflict came after his death. He was a companion of the Prophet. This life is a test, its not meant to be easy.
    In fact, becoming a Muslim all you have to say is the shahada. You can read the Quran and Sunnah and follow it. This is what Sunnis do.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    We can certainly improve on this, stop (not you personally) tacitly supporting these things by claiming they are not true Muslims, they are, even if they are brainwashed into thinking seventy two women are their reward.
    How does ostracisim of IS from the rest of the Muslims support them? Doesn't it do the opposite and stop younger ones from being radicalised?
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    How does ostracisim of IS from the rest of the Muslims support them? Doesn't it do the opposite and stop younger ones from being radicalised?
    They don't ostracise, they apologise.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    They don't ostracise, they apologise.
    Saying IS are not Muslims is ostracism. Even saying they are Muslims but they carry out unislamic actions and don't represent 1.6 billion etc. is still ostracism.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Saying IS are not Muslims is ostracism. Even saying they are Muslims but they carry out unislamic actions and don't represent 1.6 billion etc. is still ostracism.
    I don't say they are not Muslim, I think they are fully Muslim and no different to those Muslims who tacitly apologise their actions.
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    (Original post by dozyrosie)
    I don't say they are not Muslim, I think they are fully Muslim and no different to those Muslims who tacitly apologise their actions.
    Lol what has that got to do with anything?

    You said Muslims ostracising ISIS are (by some logic) supporting them. I guess those who do the same with the Ahmediyyahs are also supporting them.
 
 
 
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