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France wants to move UK border back to UK as that is what BREXIT voted for.... Watch

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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    The root cause is the benefits system and the associated regulations which favour immigrants over British nationals. There needs to be a level playing field. The problem is also the sheer volume which is unsustainable. None of the migrants are coming to the UK because of the beauty of the Lake District or Scottish Highlands. They are here because of the benefits system. That therefore is where the changes need to be made.
    You don't know what you're talking about. The rate of benefit claims and welfare system takeup generally by EU migrants is very low. The great majority are here to WORK.

    There was a gentleman from the Lincolnshire growers on the radio today talking about the huge lengths he and his colleagues had gone to in the past to try to persuade British people to take the seasonal crop and fruit picking jobs they offer. They simply couldn't find them. That is why they hire large numbers of E. Europeans.

    The largest single EU immigrant group in London is the French. They are not benefit claimants. Not even close. They are young professionals seeking work away from the depressed French jobs market.

    The only thing your views and those of UKIP will achieve is to push the UK down economically, as like it or not, migrant workers contribute hugely to whatever economic success the UK has.

    Moaning and whining about it gets us nowhere.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Not really. Why do you think they have never tried?
    Why do you think the UK doesnt deport people under Dublin?
    You dont appreciate how Dublin works. Its an administrative agreement between EU countries. It wont be long now and he UK will no longer be in the EYU.
    France doesnt have to open the door, it can just cancel the agreement as its under no obligation to the UK.

    Britain would be obliged to deal with the asylum seekers as soon as the claim was made.
    Well, the main reason we don't is because we came to an agreement with Turkey which removes the problem from EU states entirely.
    Once we're outside the EU, there will be a hard border between Britain and France. An asylum seeker will not be able to legally enter Britain from France without being found out on the French side of said border, at which point France must process their asylum bid. You can't just let people pass through a hard border without any valid documentation, which the migrants will not have.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    They must process their own asylum seekers as against Italy and Belgium but not against us. If after Brexit those asylum seekers leave for the UK we cannot force them back on France even though if they left for Belgium the Belgians would be able to force them back to France under Dublin II
    After Brexit, there will be a hard anglo-French border. No asylum seeker would be able to pass through this border, as they would have no right to move through France without having already claimed asylum.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    Well, the main reason we don't is because we came to an agreement with Turkey which removes the problem from EU states entirely.
    Once we're outside the EU, there will be a hard border between Britain and France. An asylum seeker will not be able to legally enter Britain from France without being found out on the French side of said border, at which point France must process their asylum bid. You can't just let people pass through a hard border without any valid documentation, which the migrants will not have.
    Again if you read up you will see a significnat number of challenges which has thrown the Turkey agreement into doubt.

    You forget that a lot of them will swim or get smuggeld across the channel.

    If an asylum seeker doesnnt make the claim in France, then they dont have to be processed their.

    Yes ofc people pass over borders without valid documentation. How do you think most of them got to Valais in the first place? how do you think the hundreds of thousands made it to Germany?

    So generally NO to what you said.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    And what did THE leading french politician say?

    http://www.politico.eu/article/franc...-consequences/
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-brexit-paris

    That's right, he said the Le Touquet Accord shan't be affect by the Brexit vote as it is a bilateral agreement and so membership of the EU has no bearing on it. Largely because if he made it easier for migrants to get to Britain, there'd be an influx of migrants in France as they tried to make their way.

    That is the definition of scaremongering. Congratulations on proving the Brexit campaign right......again
    It needn't be affected by the Brexit vote, but if we don't suck up to France in the coming negotiations (for example, France want us to start them as soon as possible and **** off out, Germany want us to take our time) France have this to beat us with.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Again if you read up you will see a significnat number of challenges which has thrown the Turkey agreement into doubt.

    You forget that a lot of them will swim or get smuggeld across the channel.

    If an asylum seeker doesnnt make the claim in France, then they dont have to be processed their.

    Yes ofc people pass over borders without valid documentation. How do you think most of them got to Valais in the first place? how do you think the hundreds of thousands made it to Germany?

    So generally NO to what you said.
    The point being it's rather harder to smuggle someone over the English Channel than it is to smuggle someone across continental Europe, especially given as there wasn't any real border control in continental Europe.

    Again, some will be able to make the journey illegally, but the overwhelming majority will not. And if France - either explicitly or implicitly - allows for migrants to pass through France to try to get to Britain, it will lead to far more migrants going to France and then having to sit around in France whilst waiting for a chance to make the journey. None of which is going to do any favours to a French government fighting a eurosceptic insurgency.

    So generally, we aren't going to see a French government suspend the Le Touquet Accord. Hollande has vindicated me so far, and I will go out on a limb and say that we won't see any French leader do so.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    It needn't be affected by the Brexit vote, but if we don't suck up to France in the coming negotiations (for example, France want us to start them as soon as possible and **** off out, Germany want us to take our time) France have this to beat us with.
    The French have got to toe an incredibly fine line in the negotiations. If they come out too firm and come across like they're trying to punish us, it's only going to galvanise the eurosceptics. The National Front are already right at the top of the polls, so the French government are not going to do something which will push them any further in the ascendency.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    After Brexit, there will be a hard anglo-French border. No asylum seeker would be able to pass through this border, as they would have no right to move through France without having already claimed asylum.
    The English side of the border will be no harder than it is today. The French side may be considerably softer.

    In the second quarter of 2015 32 Jamaicans sought political asylum in the UK. Do you think they travelled through France? You have seen pictures of the Calais jungle. Did you see any Chinese faces? What about Indian faces? In 3 months last year 142 Chinese claimed asylum along with 266 Indians and 291 Sri Lankans.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The English side of the border will be no harder than it is today. The French side may be considerably softer.

    In the second quarter of 2015 32 Jamaicans sought political asylum in the UK. Do you think they travelled through France? You have seen pictures of the Calais jungle. Did you see any Chinese faces? What about Indian faces? In 3 months last year 142 Chinese claimed asylum along with 266 Indians and 291 Sri Lankans.
    Notice the numbers. They are tiny. A trickle of a few thousand getting to Britain illegally to claim asylum would pail in comparison to the tens of thousands, nay hundreds of thousands, who would flow into France looking for an opportunity. France would most certainly get the short end of the stick.

    If you honestly believe it would be in France's interests to do this, then why do you think Hollande has ruled it out? He's no fan of the British, and he's vehemently pro-EU, so he's hardly doing us a favour.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    The point being it's rather harder to smuggle someone over the English Channel than it is to smuggle someone across continental Europe, especially given as there wasn't any real border control in continental Europe.

    Again, some will be able to make the journey illegally, but the overwhelming majority will not. And if France - either explicitly or implicitly - allows for migrants to pass through France to try to get to Britain, it will lead to far more migrants going to France and then having to sit around in France whilst waiting for a chance to make the journey. None of which is going to do any favours to a French government fighting a eurosceptic insurgency.

    So generally, we aren't going to see a French government suspend the Le Touquet Accord. Hollande has vindicated me so far, and I will go out on a limb and say that we won't see any French leader do so.
    Big natural barrier, but where money is involved its far from insurmountable. That would be why asulum claims are already up 19% this year to over 38,000. certainly didnt deter them.

    If they are passing through France then they might not care and they cna use it as a means to blame the UK anyway. Hollande has bindicated you so far. You are simply breathtaking. just lol. the difference is we were in the EU then, so cordial relations were rather more important. So wo come full circle, yes the French cna cancel the agreement if they wish and they will do if whoever is in power next sees it to be in their interest.

    All your stuff about Dublin and dpeorting and illegality was nonsense. It doesnt work like that and in the case of Dublin everyone has given up on it. That is why they negotiated the deal with Turkey.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    It requires that we properly distinguish between:
    Migrants - looking for a better permanent life here
    AKA ex pats
    Refugees - fleeing war torn countries or disasters
    Asylum Seekers and
    Economic Migrants - just looking for temporary work often on a seasonal basis.
    also known as ex-pats

    Especially if they are English migrants working (or retiring) outside the UK.

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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    Notice the numbers. They are tiny. A trickle of a few thousand getting to Britain illegally to claim asylum would pail in comparison to the tens of thousands, nay hundreds of thousands, who would flow into France looking for an opportunity. France would most certainly get the short end of the stick.

    If you honestly believe it would be in France's interests to do this, then why do you think Hollande has ruled it out? He's no fan of the British, and he's vehemently pro-EU, so he's hardly doing us a favour.
    This is about money. There are far more asylum seekers entering France seeking to stay in France than asylum seekers entering France seeking to come to the UK. Most UK illegal immigrants and asylum seekers to the UK are "in country" applicants. Is it better for France to spend its limited budget protecting the channel coast to reduce the pull factor of getting to the UK or on the land frontiers with other EU states to stop not only those seeking to come to the UK but also those wanting to stay in France? Hollande or any other French government would spin any reduction in Channel security as increasing the security of France.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    You don't know what you're talking about. The rate of benefit claims and welfare system takeup generally by EU migrants is very low. The great majority are here to WORK.

    There was a gentleman from the Lincolnshire growers on the radio today talking about the huge lengths he and his colleagues had gone to in the past to try to persuade British people to take the seasonal crop and fruit picking jobs they offer. They simply couldn't find them. That is why they hire large numbers of E. Europeans.

    The largest single EU immigrant group in London is the French. They are not benefit claimants. Not even close. They are young professionals seeking work away from the depressed French jobs market.

    The only thing your views and those of UKIP will achieve is to push the UK down economically, as like it or not, migrant workers contribute hugely to whatever economic success the UK has.

    Moaning and whining about it gets us nowhere.
    Young Brits on welfare should be forced to do the work by the state. It is the optimal solution.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    The French have got to toe an incredibly fine line in the negotiations. If they come out too firm and come across like they're trying to punish us, it's only going to galvanise the eurosceptics. The National Front are already right at the top of the polls, so the French government are not going to do something which will push them any further in the ascendency.
    I agree
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Big natural barrier, but where money is involved its far from insurmountable. That would be why asulum claims are already up 19% this year to over 38,000. certainly didnt deter them.

    If they are passing through France then they might not care and they cna use it as a means to blame the UK anyway. Hollande has bindicated you so far. You are simply breathtaking. just lol. the difference is we were in the EU then, so cordial relations were rather more important. So wo come full circle, yes the French cna cancel the agreement if they wish and they will do if whoever is in power next sees it to be in their interest.

    All your stuff about Dublin and dpeorting and illegality was nonsense. It doesnt work like that and in the case of Dublin everyone has given up on it. That is why they negotiated the deal with Turkey.
    It's not about whether or not it's surmountable; it's about the fact it'll create a bottleneck. If 10,000 people can make it from France to Britain in a year, but the possibility draws 50,000 into France, it's the French who suffer the most. Which is precisely why Hollande ruled it out. It wouldn't be in their interest.

    Hollande ruled out revoking the Le Touquet Accord after we voted for Brexit. And I agree, the French would revoke it in a heartbeat if it served their interests. Which rather begs the question, why haven't they? If you honestly believe all of what you've been saying, then why has Hollande ruled it out?

    Legally, we would have every right to send them to back; there is plenty of precedent to support the 'first safe country' ruling. But again, it's not even about whether it's possible. It's about creating a bottleneck. Every piece of law that must be debated is thousands more building up in France, all the while adding to the impetus of the eurosceptics. The mainstream French parties are terrified of the National Front. They aren't going to risk adding to their support.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Big natural barrier, but where money is involved its far from insurmountable.
    But also largely irrelevant in terms of asylum but not in terms of illegal immigration.

    In the year to March 2016, the last available statistics, there were only 4115 applications for asylum at all UK posts and airports. 91% of all asylum applications are made in country but we keep on obsessing about asylum seekers and the border.
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    As pointed out Hollande is on his way out. France will do as it pleases, even if it doesnt have your support.

    First safe country is only part of Dublin , which we do not apply and will no longer be relevant to us when we have left the EU. Its not applied by us now anyway. We havent sent them back for years. Dyop quoting Dyblin at me I cnat take any more just go and read up.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    This is about money. There are far more asylum seekers entering France seeking to stay in France than asylum seekers entering France seeking to come to the UK. Most UK illegal immigrants and asylum seekers to the UK are "in country" applicants. Is it better for France to spend its limited budget protecting the channel coast to reduce the pull factor of getting to the UK or on the land frontiers with other EU states to stop not only those seeking to come to the UK but also those wanting to stay in France? Hollande or any other French government would spin any reduction in Channel security as increasing the security of France.
    The Calais Jungle is pretty conclusive evidence that the pull factor of the UK is a major cause of France's migrant problem. And France's hands are tied to a large extent with regards her land borders, thanks to the Schengen Area.

    I'm sure Hollande will spin it like that. On the other hand, the National Front will spin it as the French trying to punish the British for exercising their democratic right. I ask again; given as Hollande dislikes the British more than any other major candidate for the presidency, why hasn't he revoked the Accord? The only reason can be that he believes it is not in the French interest to do so.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Young Brits on welfare should be forced to do the work by the state. It is the optimal solution.
    There are still some extreme inflexibilities in the way unemployment-related benefits work that make it hard for jobless people to take short and seasonal work, even though this would assist the economy and government spending. An example is that housing benefit and mortgage interest support don't restart quickly enough after a short sign off to make it worth doing.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But also largely irrelevant in terms of asylum but not in terms of illegal immigration.

    In the year to March 2016, the last available statistics, there were only 4115 applications for asylum at all UK posts and airports. 91% of all asylum applications are made in country but we keep on obsessing about asylum seekers and the border.
    He was arguing about it being a barrier. It is.
    If 91% are made in country, then where do you think they came from as their point of entry?
    Nope im not obssessing about the ones waiting in Calais.
 
 
 
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