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    (Original post by PrincessBO$$)
    I may not have said Some but i definitely did not say ALL
    DAF*Q U TALKING ABOUT? I RESPONDED TO OP NOT U DID U START THIS THREAD? NO!
    Spoiler:
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    btw I'm sorry for being a b*tch your annyoying me *early eid mubarak
    I am the OP!!!!
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    (Original post by PrincessBO$$)
    I may not have said Some but i definitely did not say ALL
    DAF*Q U TALKING ABOUT? I RESPONDED TO OP NOT U DID U START THIS THREAD? NO!
    Spoiler:
    Show
    btw I'm sorry for being a b*tch your annyoying me *early eid mubarak
    You don't need to say 'all'.

    Your statement was:
    (Original post by PrincessBO$$)
    Shia's whip themselves on Ashura. So............................
    If I say:

    Blacks are criminals

    That's not okay...
    Sure I didn't say all blacks are criminals, but the lack of specificity means I am generalising, and in this case so are you. So stop getting defensive and admit your mistake.
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    I am the OP!!!!
    She's so ignorant...

    It makes me sad.
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    (Original post by rimstone)
    as a non-religious person, who is somewhat interested in history and have done a lot fo research into early history from what i learnt.

    shia came about due to muhammad claiming once that Ali was the truest and purest person in the room, full of all the holy ppl. But muhammad made it clear , very clear abbubaker was meant to be the 2nd leader. Shiates also made a lot fo mistakes, which they regret, which leads to the whipping andf cutting themselves, since they once said they would support muhammad newphew ? into battle but failed to, and since they regret it so much they harm themsleves on a certain day. Overall on a history stand point, sunnis seem to be the right sect.. and seem less retarded really.

    That being said chose as you want ... i have little knowledge of this, but abbibaker was a much better leader than Ali.
    No that's another misconception the Shias don't hit themselves out of guilt, they do it to remember the pain and sacrifice of Hussain. Abu bakr andUmar forced Ali not to be leader and harmed his wife
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    (Original post by Axel Johann)
    She's so ignorant...

    It makes me sad.
    Yep she is, she doesn't value other people's beliefs
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    Assalaamu 'aleykum

    May I ask what evidence you have looked at to suggest that Shi'ism is more correct than Sunnism?

    As a revert to Islam, I have tried to look at both sides with fairness (and I am continuing to try to learn), though granted my initial insight into Islam was from a Sunni perspective, I am still progressively concluding that the foundation of Shia beliefs to be a mixture of textual gymnastics to twist hadith and history to support their belief, fabricated lies (e.g. Umar - a beloved friend of the Prophet SAW whose daughter was married to him - caused Fatimah RA to misscarry a baby), and just really an appeal to emotions over logic and truth. If you look at the state of Shi'ism today, it doesn't take long to see that it is comprised of innovation and fanciful tales of the Ahlul Bayt attempting to secretly preserve Islam under persecution; Sunnis respect the Ahlul Bayt but there is no logical reason to prove why our deen is defined by them (or rather what was attributed to them in their name by extreme Shia living in hiding from persecution). If you look at Shi'ism today can you really honestly tell me that the way they practice Islam is how the Prophet SAW practiced it, and how the first generation of Muslims practiced it and believed it?

    I will make a list of short topics and my judgements (if I was to post the evidence this post would be really long), but InshaAllah you will get the gist:

    - Hadith of 12 Caliphs after the Prophet SAW - Did not refer to the Ahlul Bayt, and to refer to them would be greatly beyond the text of the hadith.

    - Hadith of the two weighty things - The Hadith does not instruct Muslims to take their deen and leadership solely from the Ahlul Bayt, rather to be mindful and respectful.

    - Hadith of Ali is your Mawla - Does not refer to Ali RA being the leader of the Muslims, and contrary to Shia beliefs this was not done in the presence of the majority of the Ummah, rather it was after an incident involving the Muslim army on their way back from Yemen.

    - Hadith of the Pen - Did not indicate that the Sahabah (or Umar RA) prevented the Prophet SAW from writing Ali RA was his successor, and as Shia claim that Ali had already be publically declaired as the successor, this wouldn't make sense.

    - The incident of choosing the Caliph - There is no authentic Sunni OR SHIA hadith which indicate that Umar RA caused Fatimah RA (the daughter of the Prophet SAW) to miscarry, and also history books do not even testify that she was pregnant at the time.

    - Ali RA named his child after his 'enemy' (according to Shia) Abu Bakr which does not make sense.

    - The hadith of Fatimah whoever angers Fatimah angers the Prophet SAW - This hadith was ironically stated when Ali RA expressed a desire to marry the daughter of Abu Lahab (the hated kafir uncle if the Prophet SAW), so do Shia believe Ali is hated by the Prophet SAW? Ofc they don't, so they are inconsistent.

    - There were no chains of narration for Naghul Balagha - an 'authentic' Shia collection of sermons by Ali RA during his caliphate. It is a staple book for Shia but does not meet even basic hadith standards, having a disconnected chain of narrators by a few hundred years.

    - Shia Rijjal studies (the study of people who are in the chains of narrations) only started hundreds of years after Sunnis, so their historical knowledge is limited and dubious. As a result, Shia hadith are questionable.

    - Generally, Shia websites which quote Sunni souces either engage in the gymnastics I described earlier to twist the meaning or they provide 'Sunni' references which are really written by Shia.

    - Etc etc. There is more but it will take too long.

    Edit: I would sincerely advise not taking your deen from one sided Shia websites wrought by kufr e.g. Al-Islam.
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    Do you mean Shia LaBeouf?Name:  image.png
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    I am here there's no points indirecting me, and you are the ignorant one.
    ??? I don't understand...
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    (Original post by Axel Johann)
    ??? I don't understand...
    Sorry this time of night, I got confused and thought you were the ignorant girl.
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    Sorry this time of night, I got confused and thought you were the ignorant girl.
    Ohhh haha, no problem. I got really baffled :rofl:
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Assalaamu 'aleykum

    May I ask what evidence you have looked at to suggest that Shi'ism is more correct than Sunnism?

    As a revert to Islam, I have tried to look at both sides with fairness (and I am continuing to try to learn), though granted my initial insight into Islam was from a Sunni perspective, I am still progressively concluding that the foundation of Shia beliefs to be a mixture of textual gymnastics to twist hadith and history to support their belief, fabricated lies (e.g. Umar - a beloved friend of the Prophet SAW whose daughter was married to him - caused Fatimah RA to misscarry a baby), and just really an appeal to emotions over logic and truth. If you look at the state of Shi'ism today, it doesn't take long to see that it is comprised of innovation and fanciful tales of the Ahlul Bayt attempting to secretly preserve Islam under persecution; Sunnis respect the Ahlul Bayt but there is no logical reason to prove why our deen is defined by them (or rather what was attributed to them in their name by extreme Shia living in hiding from persecution). If you look at Shi'ism today can you really honestly tell me that they way they practice Islam is how the Prophet SAW practiced it, and how the first generation of Muslims practiced it and believed it?

    I will make a list of short topics and my judgements (if I was to post the evidence this post would be really long), but InshaAllah you will get the gist:

    - Hadith of 12 Caliphs after the Prophet SAW - Did not refer to the Ahlul Bayt, and to refer to them would be greatly beyond the text of the hadith.

    - Hadith of the two weighty things - The Hadith does not instruct Muslims to take their deen and leadership solely from the Ahlul Bayt, rather to be mindful and respectful.

    - Hadith of Ali is your Mawla - Does not refer to Ali RA being the leader of the Muslims, and contrary to Shia beliefs this was not done in the presence of the majority of the Ummah, rather it was after an incident involving the Muslim army on their way back from Yemen.

    - Hadith of the Pen - Did not indicate that the Sahabah (or Umar RA) prevented the Prophet SAW from writing Ali RA was his successor, and as Shia claim that Ali had already be publically declaired as the successor, this wouldn't make sense.

    - The incident of choosing the Caliph - There is no authentic Sunni OR SHIA hadith which indicate that Umar RA caused Fatimah RA (the daughter of the Prophet SAW) to miscarry, and also history books do not even testify that she was pregnant at the time.

    - Ali RA named his child after his 'enemy' (according to Shia) Abu Bakr which does not make sense.

    - The hadith of Fatimah whoever angers Fatimah angers the Prophet SAW - This hadith was ironically stated when Ali RA expressed a desire to marry the daughter of Abu Lahab (the hated kafir uncle if the Prophet SAW), so do Shia believe Ali is hated by the Prophet SAW? Ofc they don't, so the are inconsistent.

    - There were no chains of narration for Naghul Balagha - an 'authentic' Shia collection of sermons by Ali RA during his caliphate. It is a staple book for Shia but does not meet even basic hadith standards, having a disconnected chain of narrators by a few hundred years.

    - Shia Rijjal studies (the study of people who make up the chains of narrations) only started hundreds of years after Sunnis, so their historical knowledge is limited and dubious. As a result, Shia hadith are questionable.

    - Generally, Shia websites which quote Sunni souces either engage in the gymnastics I described earlier to twist the meaning or they provide 'Sunni' references which are really written by Shia.

    - Etc etc. There is more but it will take too long.

    Edit: I would sincerely advise not taking your deen from one sided Shia websites wrought by kufr e.g. Al-Islam.
    I will reply to you tomorrow Witth the evidence when I can type easier, but for now it's not right to call Shias kuffar you can't call Muslims that
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    That's true yes but not all of them do, a lot of people fast and cry that's it. Then you get a few women who lightly tap their chests which isn't bad because it doesn't cause pain or damage to body. About whipping themselvesShia religion clerics and leaders have denounced physical or blood mourning and say it shouldn't be done.
    Even those who do all this extra praying, fasting and organised morning and beating their chests are committing Bidah - innovation.

    The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated repeatedly that: "Every newly-invented thing is a bid'ah (innovation), every bid'ah is a going astray, and every going astray will be in the Fire."

    Allah also says in the Quran that He has perfected for us our religion; how is it that Shia seek nearness to Allah by doing all these things outside of the Sunnah? Indeed the Shia love the Ahlul Bayt but they do the greatest disservice to them by going against the Prophet (SAW). The Prophet (SAW) forbade wailing; Shia wail all the time in memory of the Ahlul Bayt. They do all these extra fasts and do all these extra prayers and this that and the other, but their intention is because it is a specific day in memory of people who died after the Prophet (SAW) - where did the Prophet teach this? They have committed great sins by innovating into Islam and attributing it to the Ahlul Bayt, and they have convinced the ignorant laymen of Iran amd Iraq to join them in the race to Jahiliyyah; certainly the Ahlul Bayt were on the same deen as the Sahabah, and indeed the Sahabah were on the deen of the Prophet (SAW).

    If you have a technical knowledge of what Bidah is then really their should be no doubt in this matter.
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    I will reply to you tomorrow Witth the evidence when I can type easier, but for now it's not right to call Shias kuffar you can't call Muslims that
    I have not called Shia Kuffar, rather I have said that those who run those websites commit Kufr. Whatever evidence you bring, I am sure I have seen it all before, but if you wish, continue.

    I have additional points I wish to make about ***some*** Shia being Mushrikeen since they take the Ahlul Bayt besides Allah, but I do understand that I cannot generalise in this. I am still looking into the topic and trying to understand if certain beliefs were the beliefs of the founders of Shi'ism (by founders, I do not mean the Ahlul Bayt, since they did not found Shi'ism). Anywho, it is safe to say that there are many who commit Shirk in Iran and Iraq, and there are scholars too who agree with this Shirk. An example is calling upon members of the Ahlul Bayt to make dua for them - some Shia agree this is Shirk, but many practice it, thus becoming Mushrikoon. I say this because personally I would not take my deen from a group like this, and equally it is why I don't take my deen from Sufis in Pakistan for example.
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    There can be only one
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    Do whatever, as long as you don't go round killing people ok.
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    Mate, it is all nonsense. Just become atheist.*
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    I am the OP!!!!
    LOL

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    Hello
    I'm thinking of becoming Shia because I believe in the ahlebait and the should have been leadership of Ali and Hussein
    But I would just like to know anything else that I should know like general knowledge on how Shias are different
    Can anyone help me out?
    I too am currently looking into shia beliefs and researching them to find the truth.
    But so far I'm yet to find a singe shred of proof for the beliefs held.
    In fact I'm being driven away from it the further I research it.
    But all we can say is may God guide us to the right path and push us away from the wrong path.
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    (Original post by shazy2014)
    Hello
    I'm thinking of becoming Shia because I believe in the ahlebait and the should have been leadership of Ali and Hussein
    But I would just like to know anything else that I should know like general knowledge on how Shias are different
    Can anyone help me out?
    In the name of Allah, the beneficent, the merciful.

    I am not here to belittle the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah, or to try to compel or forcefully persuade you or 'convert' you into shia Islam. As a shia muslim myself, and as you have yourself made an effort into enquiring about shia Islam, i believe it is a duty i place on myself to ensure you have accurate, reliable, and a proper understanding of shia islam.

    The idea is to give you enough information bywhich you can make your own conclusions.

    Secondly, my aim is to ensure the misconceptions - and there are many- about shia islam are answered, because it would not be fair for any human being to make a decision based on the misinformation given to him by others.

    I have made a thread specially for asking questions about shia Islam - take a look at the thread, and read the first few pages. If you have any subsequent questions, absolutely feel free to ask them.

    You may also directly PM me and ask any question you like.

    Here is the thread i created: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post66263477
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    Shea butter is good for your hair tbf so i can see your point of view.
 
 
 
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