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BREXIT: If 16/17 year olds allowed to vote remain would have won by landslide. Watch

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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Our futures have been robbed by elderly racists/nationalists
    No it hasn't.

    (Original post by WhatIsSleep)
    1,545,382 16 to 17-year-olds living in the UK as according to mid-2013 data: our population is only getting older, so presumably there are fewer 16 to 17-year-olds now, but we'll still use this figure.
    100% of this number can be part of the electorate.
    we assume the number of 16 to 17 non-citizens studying inside the UK is roughly the same as the number of 16 to 17 citizens studying outside the UK. turnout might be 36%, so 556,337 people would vote.
    turnout for 18-24-year-olds was 36% as according to Sky Data: this would potentially be even lower for 16-17-year-olds due to the trend of turnout increasing by age (and starkly vice versa).
    72% of these votes might be to remain, meaning 400,563 more remain votes.

    conclusion: remain might have lost with a little bit less of a gap (precisely 3.2% of a gap)
    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Brexit cant even ADD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pot calling kettle, come in kettle...
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    Yes, maybe the remain side would have won if 16-17yo voted but the young people who got the chance to vote, not many of them voted

    Not enogh Young people voted.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    You say that your future has been robbed. What have you objectively lost?
    Cheap(er) holidays to Spain.
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    Thats based on the assumption a vast majority of 16/17 year olds are for Remain,and will come out and vote,a naive assumption to make.
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    I think they should have had vote, but the 18-24 year olds didn't turn out so I doubt they would have either.
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    (Original post by Playmaker#10)
    The same elderly racist nationalists that have been paying taxes longer than you've been born? and fought in wars?

    Also do you realize that only about 36% of the supposed informed youth actually turned up to voting day?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7105396.html



    So stop with this garbage already that these people destroyed your future it's pathetic.
    That data has already been proven to be complete rubbish, it's pretty much sky news making up a random figure based on the 2015 general election figures. I pretty rough guess at that.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-eu-referendum

    Sky isn't claiming this is collected data - it's projected, and a subsequent tweet said it was based on "9+/10 certainty to vote, usually/always votes, voted/ineligible at GE2015". I've asked for more information on what this means, but for now it's enough to say it's nothing more than a guess.
    Since the actual vote however it seems the turnout of young people may of actually been much higher. Research from the London School of Economics shows while slightly lower than many demographics vote turnout from 18-24 was likely to of been around 70% while 67% for 25-30 year olds.

    http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/04/l...first-thought/

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-voters-survey
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    EU membership was beneficial for the UK economy from the 1970s until the 1990s when it became stagnant. (Immigration not mentioned)Is our net £10 billion contribution to the EU 'a small price to pay for tariff free access to the EU market'? If we left the EU with no trade deal – inconceivable given the tariff free zone from Iceland to Turkey – our exports would face EU tariffs averaging just 2.4% (Trade Policy Research Centre, Discussion Paper, Ronald Stewart-Brown and Ben Lodge March 2014.) But our net contribution to the EU budget is equivalent to a 7% tariff. Paying 7% to avoid 2-3%.So if we left before finalising a trade deal we could use our contribution to ensure our exporters are no worse off (To avoid challenge under WTO rules, support for exporters to offset tariffs would be channeled through an Export Growth Fund or tax relief.) and still have several billion £s left over. Our partners will not delay a deal once they realise British exporters will not suffer, whereas theirs would face tariffs to enter the UK – their biggest market.Does 'EU membership help us negotiate free trade deals with the rest of the world'? Tariff free access to the fast growing, protected markets of Asia, Africa and Latin America would be worthwhile. Unfortunately, EU membership prevents us negotiating free trade deals – and the EU has negotiated few deals for us: none with China, India, Brazil.Does the EU's size mean it gets better deals than we could alone? The more countries involved in a trade deal the harder, slower and worse the result. All 28 EU members have a veto on their negotiations which is why EU deals take so long and exclude so much. Bilateral deals are simpler, quicker and more comprehensive. Hence Chile has deals covering countries with collective GDP five times the EU's deals. Even Iceland - population less than Croydon - has a Trade Agreement with China – as does Switzerland.A study of bilateral deals by Switzerland, Korea, Singapore and Chile (Myth and Paradox of the Single Market by Michael Burrage, Civets 2016) shows they boost trade far more than the EU's. UK exports have grown slower under two thirds of EU trade deals.Although services are particularly important to the UK, a third of EU deals exclude services whereas Switzerland invariably includes them. So could an independent UK. Would Britain have to renegotiate from scratch the EU's existing trade deals? Under the 'principle of continuity' in international law we can novate existing EU treaties to the UK. We should start that process ahead of leaving the EU.Will we lose out if we don't help shape the rules? People assume Britain benefits from participating in setting these rules. But rules provide a framework within which all companies operate – not an advantage to any individual country. Britain set the rules of tennis but rarely wins Wimbledon. British exports to the EU have grown less rapidly since the Single Market than they did before 1993, less than our partners' and much less than non-EU countries' exports. Maybe that is partly because we suffer EU regulations on 100% of our companies (costing our economy billions of £s) whereas non-EU firms need only comply with EU regulations on activities carried out within the EU.Losses since the 1990sCadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata,the same company who have trashed UK steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.Peugeot closed its Raton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Polandwith EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alves said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs. Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU, The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Not mentioned is the UKs non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. If you believe the EU is a good idea,1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU bureaucracy tearing your business down. The truth is out there if you look. Our companies sold off to profit just the rich. When everything we owned has eventually been sold off, who do they then hit to get them out of trouble? The poor, with things like bedroom tax, NHS cuts, fire brigade cuts, defence cuts, police cuts, school closures. The UK shouldn't want to be a mere region of a European federal state ruled from Brussels, dominated by Germany with the French in tow and subject to French-style regulations, state-control and taxation levels. The UK shouldn't have to to pay foreign aid to subsidise French farmers, unused Portuguese motorways and non-existent bridges in Greece, not to mention 5 press secretaries for Martin Schulz and chauffeured limos for EU officials - and of course the €1.4 billion ECB building in Frankfurt, the €300million EU Presidential palace in Brussels or the €8billion EU diplomatic service or indeed the 10,000 (including UKIP MEPs) EU employees who earn more than our Prime Minister and pay next to nothing in tax.MEPs Salaries & expenses€8020.53 per month basic salary€306 per day subsistence allowance €21,379 staff allowance€4,320 General Expenditure AllowanceFirst or second class travel plus a €4,264 annual allowanceAll MEPs who step down or lose their seats are entitled to a "transitional allowance" of at least €46,000 The allowance provides one month's salary for each year an MEP has been in parliament, with a minimum of six months and a maximum of 24mthsMEPs who joined prior to 2009 are entitled to second pensions in addition to their statutory pension. The longest-serving MEPs accrue statutory pensions of up to €64,000 – 70% of their salary. They are entitled to draw this non-contributory pension, which is funded solely by the taxpayer, at age 63. An "actuarial deficit" in the second pension scheme will require an extra £187m of taxpayer funding to plug the gap. UK taxpayers have already contributed more than £100m to the fund
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    EU membership was beneficial for the UK economy from the 1970s until the 1990s
    And way beyond.
    Log onto Jobserve and see how many jobs are on offer for people. I myself worked in the EU for 12 months.
    We would be insane to pull out.
    Just look at what the markets are saying - that is what REAL OLD PEOPLE REALLY THINK - WHERE THEY PUT THEIR MONEY...

    OLD PEOPLE ARE NOT PUTTING THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MONTH WAS. THE OLD ARE VOTING WITH THEIR POUND NOTES - BREXIT DOES NOT WORK..

    WHAT HAS HAPPENED - changed your mind?
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    Our futures have been robbed, as you claim, by 18-24 year olds who couldn't be ****ed to go out and vote on a decision that severely imapcts them. Instead of blaming old people, blame your friends/colleagues/classmates who were too busy taking selfies of their dinner or watching Love Island to go and vote
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    (Original post by sr90)
    Our futures have been robbed, as you claim, by 18-24 year olds who couldn't be ****ed to go out and vote on a decision that severely imapcts them. Instead of blaming old people, blame your friends/colleagues/classmates who were too busy taking selfies of their dinner or watching Love Island to go and vote
    Obviously you are correct, but in a LOVING democracy you give the kids a second chance.

    Where is the LOVE in this Brexit situation - people are going to drive the van over the cliff simply because the old guys got the directions wrong a mile back. We need a new vote on a new way because we need to bring LOVE back into politics

    There is too much hate. We need a new vote to give the people a second chance of voting for love over hate.
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    If. If my aunts had *******s she'd be my uncle. Stop crying about it, move on. (I am not pro leave by the way). Moaning will get you absolutely nowhere.
    16/17 year olds have never been allowed to vote. We don't have the same arguments after a general election do we? 99% of 16/17 year olds don't know what the EU is, how can they make an informed choice (they don't know what they're talking about half the time - kids),
    What a STUPID argument, most kids just listen to what their parents say, what their friends say, most of the time they do not think for themselves.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    That's true, but his exclusion of new, young voters was part of the rigging he performed on the exercise to push it towards a Leave vote. He may have sounded like a Remain guy, but he wasn't in any meaningful way.
    Why was it rigging? 16/17 year olds don't have the vote in normal elections.

    Extending the franchise is fair enough but if they had just done it for this referendum it would have looked odd and Leavers would have been moaning for ages about how unfair it was.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Why was it rigging? 16/17 year olds don't have the vote in normal elections.

    Extending the franchise is fair enough but if they had just done it for this referendum it would have looked odd and Leavers would have been moaning for ages about how unfair it was.
    I think you're thinking TOO LITERALLY.. What I'm getting at is there is plenty of demand amongst the young for staying in the EU, and now, looking at the stock market falls we can see the old have also changed their minds - they now clearly think Brexit is a bad thing and hence they are taking their money out of the UK.

    So, obviously, just like the Swiss, we should clearly have another referendum on the issue (a couple of years down the line , before it is too late) ..

    If we do not put pressure on from day one we might end up sleep walking out of the EU.

    Its going to be a long haul and much of it will be boring, but it has to be done. The leg work needs to be done, every single day, for the next two years.
    Its awful I know, but the pressure has to stay on the gas.
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    (Original post by WhatIsSleep)
    Stop being ageist.
    There are young racists/nationalists too, please.
    Oh wow a remainer who can handle losing like an adult, hats off to you.

    Otherwise to the OP:
    Name:  Remainer.jpg
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Our futures have been robbed by elderly racists/nationalists
    Future of what? being undercut by immigrant workers, The future of being ruled from brussels and paying over the odds for tariff free trading which we will get anyway because we buy more from the EU than we sell to them, and we can put higher tarrifs on them exporting out to us. It is only the rich and the MNC's it benefits, without boring you they can trade and import/export workers when needed making themselves richer while the average taxpayer has no benefit
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    (Original post by Ano9901whichone)
    If. If my aunts had *******s she'd be my uncle. Stop crying about it, move on. (I am not pro leave by the way). Moaning will get you absolutely nowhere.
    16/17 year olds have never been allowed to vote. We don't have the same arguments after a general election do we? 99% of 16/17 year olds don't know what the EU is, how can they make an informed choice (they don't know what they're talking about half the time - kids),
    What a STUPID argument, most kids just listen to what their parents say, what their friends say, most of the time they do not think for themselves.
    You've just described a large chunk of the electorate there. How's that different from Big Dave down the pub saying he hates immigrants and deciding to vote leave after he's had a pint with the lads from the building site after work?
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    (Original post by WhatIsSleep)
    This is actually untrue...
    One of my friends on facebook made this post after the vote:

    "1,545,382 16 to 17-year-olds living in the UK as according to mid-2013 data: our population is only getting older, so presumably there are fewer 16 to 17-year-olds now, but we'll still use this figure.
    100% of this number can be part of the electorate.
    we assume the number of 16 to 17 non-citizens studying inside the UK is roughly the same as the number of 16 to 17 citizens studying outside the UK. turnout might be 36%, so 556,337 people would vote.
    turnout for 18-24-year-olds was 36% as according to Sky Data: this would potentially be even lower for 16-17-year-olds due to the trend of turnout increasing by age (and starkly vice versa).
    72% of these votes might be to remain, meaning 400,563 more remain votes.

    conclusion: remain might have lost with a little bit less of a gap (precisely 3.2% of a gap)"

    It doesn't matter. Realistically, Brexit would have won either way.
    Although I'm not happy about it either, you have to deal with it.
    Bingo


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    (Original post by sr90)
    You've just described a large chunk of the electorate there. How's that different from Big Dave down the pub saying he hates immigrants and deciding to vote leave after he's had a pint with the lads from the building site after work?
    Honestly, I don't know what you mean.
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    (Original post by NerradCFCB)
    Future of what? being undercut by immigrant workers, The future of being ruled from brussels and paying over the odds
    I don't think you understand the modern world. Let me explain my world to you. I guess its spread the love time....

    Once upon a time some companies came into existence: Easyjet, Ryan Air, FlyBe, Monarch and one or two others. The enabled people, like myself to go to anywhere in Europe, work and come home week-ends (or Friday Night, Monday Morning). Now there are millions of people like me all over europe doing this. British people are amongst the biggest group who work in the EU and come home week-ends. We use the right of free movement more than most.

    Now just when we were settled in and quite comfy, along came a big bad troll called UKIP and they said "this EU is really naughty, you can work in the USA or India or Africa but not the EU"....

    We replied to the big bad troll "But UKIP you cant get Ryan air to India or the USA" But the big bad troll would not listen to reason. He said, "you all have to stop. We cant have people flying all over Europe working. Everyone must go to their own countries and stay there."

    And you know what children, as hard as it to believe, people actually voted for this.

    And now they wonder why millions of us are in tears.

    UKIPers are beyong belief, but alas they do exist, they are not a fairy tale, there are actual people who believe we all have to live in our own countries and thats that.

    Hug a UKIPer , perhaps they will snap out of it
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    I don't think you understand the modern world. Let me explain my world to you. I guess its spread the love time....

    Once upon a time some companies came into existence: Easyjet, Ryan Air, FlyBe, Monarch and one or two others. The enabled people, like myself to go to anywhere in Europe, work and come home week-ends (or Friday Night, Monday Morning). Now there are millions of people like me all over europe doing this. British people are amongst the biggest group who work in the EU and come home week-ends. We use the right of free movement more than most.

    Now just when we were settled in and quite comfy, along came a big bad troll called UKIP and they said "this EU is really naughty, you can work in the USA or India or Africa but not the EU"....

    We replied to the big bad troll "But UKIP you cant get Ryan air to India or the USA" But the big bad troll would not listen to reason. He said, "you all have to stop. We cant have people flying all over Europe working. Everyone must go to their own countries and stay there."

    And you know what children, as hard as it to believe, people actually voted for this.

    And now they wonder why millions of us are in tears.

    UKIPers are beyong belief, but alas they do exist, they are not a fairy tale, there are actual people who believe we all have to live in our own countries and thats that.

    Hug a UKIPer , perhaps they will snap out of it
    Im not a ukiper im a BNP supporter, we can get a better deal , bring our people back and do mass deportations starting with eu convicts
 
 
 
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