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CB395 – Prohibition of Publicly Funded Faith Schools Bill 2011 Watch

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    I agree with the aims of this bill, but I'd maybe limit it to failing faith schools. If a faith school is teaching children well, it should still be publicly funded
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Most faith schools have compulsory prayers. It's bad enough that in the uk primary schools are MENT to do Christian stuff.

    Yes but if that is to be a good argument for keeping religious schools it must mean that either secular schools are worse at teaching morals, implying that the fear of God is a better motivator, or that secular people (athiests) are somehow less moral. Otherwise they are just as good as secular schools so that is not a good argument to keep them.
    I know of very little faith schools where prayers are compulsory. Whilst you do get an incredibly small minority of schools which teach an extreme interpretation of a religion ( and many are shut down ), the number of faith schools which embrace all religions and have a pluralistic attitude end up being vastly more than the schools which are a problem.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I agree with the aims of this bill, but I'd maybe limit it to failing faith schools. If a faith school is teaching children well, it should still be publicly funded
    Agreed. That should be the priority.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    I agree with the aims of this bill, but I'd maybe limit it to failing faith schools. If a faith school is teaching children well, it should still be publicly funded
    This I think I agree with.

    However the problem as I see it is that the schools which are teaching these radical interpretations and where students are failing could even survive without government funding, due to close-knit communities ; often where these are happening the line between cult and community are blurred. Whilst not for every case it would interest me to see how many would and could carry on and carry on even with less checks onto what they are doing.
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    (Original post by EricAteYou)
    This I think I agree with.

    However the problem as I see it is that the schools which are teaching these radical interpretations and where students are failing could even survive without government funding, due to close-knit communities ; often where these are happening the line between cult and community are blurred. Whilst not for every case it would interest me to see how many would and could carry on and carry on even with less checks onto what they are doing.
    That's a fair point actually. I'd probably want some form of further regulation on privately funded faith schools
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    Classic as chosen by whom and why?!
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Nay - I'm not that secular, and I doubt the Socialist Party of 2016 would submit something this radical now.
    You have looked at the Socialist subforum recently, right?
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    You have looked at the Socialist subforum recently, right?
    Nope...
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    As I most enjoy the adversarial nature of debate in the MHoC - the sense of competition and the need to win votes - I struggle to motivate myself to argue against ghosts.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I'm very skeptical of this 'classic bills' concept...
    We'll see how it goes – I think we only find out if it adds anything by giving it a go.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Most faith schools have compulsory prayers.
    Incidentally I went to a non-faith primary school that had compulsory prayers twice a day. Having moved from another primary school there it was very odd for a bit.
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    Aye, although Saracen's Fez, I propose classic bills requiring a party sponsor.
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    I find myself agreeing with DMcGovern, I have no problem with faith schools though I do believe they should be rigorously inspected to prevent radicalisation.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    So out of the 6973 faith schools in the UK, according to you 93 taught bigotry as of early 2015.
    So according to you 0.013% is many.
    Just one such school is too many.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I'm very skeptical of this 'classic bills' concept...
    It's like there aren't any new ones?
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    In terms of the horrific layout and the content, it's bad.

    Why should the government not fund faith schools? Religion is a good way of teaching children morals.
    The idea that you need some magical pixie to teach you morality is the most self-damning thing I've ever heard. I hate it when religious people use the argument that "our deity teaches us not to rape and kill, etc"; I don't follow any deity and I don't rape or kill.
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    The idea that you need some magical pixie to teach you morality is the most self-damning thing I've ever heard. I hate it when religious people use the argument that "our deity teaches us not to rape and kill, etc"; I don't follow any deity and I don't rape or kill.
    Again, I'm not saying that people who aren't religious don't have any morals, I'm saying it's a good way of teaching children morals and guiding them.

    Precious time used for prayers and religious studies in faith schools can be used to focus on other useful and real-life courses at school.

    However, according to a study (note that I'm not saying it's true, I don't know and I'm not sure if I believe this myself), religion is actually, in some way, beneficial to education and a child’s morals.
    Students with high levels of religious commitment were noted to do better than students with low levels of religious commitment, and they also have more resistance to cheat on a paper-and-pencil test than children from secular schools. “Kids with religious parents are better behaved and adjusted than other children, according to a new study that is the first to look at the effects of religion on young child development” (Wenner, 2007).

    The values that religious schools teach their students are still helping to shape students into better students. The students tend to be self-sacrificing and pro-family. This is very important in shaping how parents relate to their kids, and how their kids respond in return.
    For religious people, having a clean conscience is way more important than having a good life, and they tend to do good deeds that will make them end up in heaven as opposed to hell.
    Religious children will be influenced by their environment to be a good and caring citizen.

    Using religious reasons to constrict children’s behaviour will enable them to learn to care for others, and they will grow up to be desirable citizens who will do their best for the society.

    Now this is according to a study, I'm not saying it's completely true, I'm not sure. It doesn't mean atheists are hateful bigots (which some of them are) and stupid, it's saying that young children who are not mature enough to make their own decisions and understand the consequences of their actions can be guided to maturity through religion.

    My parents raised me and my siblings religiously, but they respected my brother's decision to become an atheist because he was mature enough to make the decision for himself at the time (21). If he had said it at age 14 they probably wouldn't have because that's not an age at which he was mature enough (trust me, he wasn't).
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Again, I'm not saying that people who aren't religious don't have any morals, I'm saying it's a good way of teaching children morals and guiding them.

    Precious time used for prayers and religious studies in faith schools can be used to focus on other useful and real-life courses at school.

    However, according to a study (note that I'm not saying it's true, I don't know and I'm not sure if I believe this myself), religion is actually, in some way, beneficial to education and a child’s morals.
    Students with high levels of religious commitment were noted to do better than students with low levels of religious commitment, and they also have more resistance to cheat on a paper-and-pencil test than children from secular schools. “Kids with religious parents are better behaved and adjusted than other children, according to a new study that is the first to look at the effects of religion on young child development” (Wenner, 2007).

    The values that religious schools teach their students are still helping to shape students into better students. The students tend to be self-sacrificing and pro-family. This is very important in shaping how parents relate to their kids, and how their kids respond in return.
    For religious people, having a clean conscience is way more important than having a good life, and they tend to do good deeds that will make them end up in heaven as opposed to hell.
    Religious children will be influenced by their environment to be a good and caring citizen.

    Using religious reasons to constrict children’s behaviour will enable them to learn to care for others, and they will grow up to be desirable citizens who will do their best for the society.

    Now this is according to a study, I'm not saying it's completely true, I'm not sure. It doesn't mean atheists are hateful bigots (which some of them are) and stupid, it's saying that young children who are not mature enough to make their own decisions and understand the consequences of their actions can be guided to maturity through religion.

    My parents raised me and my siblings religiously, but they respected my brother's decision to become an atheist because he was mature enough to make the decision for himself at the time (21). If he had said it at age 14 they probably wouldn't have because that's not an age at which he was mature enough (trust me, he wasn't).
    It literally makes no difference - if you gather all the ********s in the world up, about 50% will be crazily religious and the other half will be atheists.
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    It literally makes no difference - if you gather all the ********s in the world up, about 50% will be crazily religious and the other half will be atheists.
    Well by the law of averages there'll probably be 10% fanatically religious, 5% angry atheist, 15% atheist and 70% religious.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Well by the law of averages there'll probably be 10% fanatically religious, 5% angry atheist, 15% atheist and 70% religious.
    Might want to read this: http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/ethics.html not saying it's perfect but it's interesting.

    Also the idea that someone is 'too immature to reject religion' is to me a crazy one.
 
 
 
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