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What will happen to our EU freedom of movement in the UK? Worried watch

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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Look around Dorian, is that unemployment taking into account permanent unemployment? as a lot of people simply dropped out of the workforce due to the 2008 crash. Honestly, I would like to see your citations for this, I will concede I am incorrect if I am. Anecdotally, my own mother is struggling to find a job at that level in a high immigrant area, and It isn't because she is "becky with 1 gcse" or whatever.
    So what are they doing, sitting on their pre-crash millions not claiming JSA or other benefits?
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    As I said, they are often better employees who work harder, but you cannot deny that the grasp of English a lot of them have isn't brilliant. However, their money often leaves the country (thus not feeding back into our economy), and the British people are already here. .
    Well, I am not saying they work harder. I am saying that if their English is poor then they should be behind a UK worker that applies for the same position.

    I doubt the money is even that significant considering they don't even get paid that much. Anyway, that money is indirectly taxed when it is sent through Money orders and etc.

    Even ignoring that issue, using your logic, we shouldn't be buying things from abroad using our wages since that money isn't directly being feed into our economy.


    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Look around Dorian, is that unemployment taking into account permanent unemployment? as a lot of people simply dropped out of the workforce due to the 2008 crash. Honestly, I would like to see your citations for this, I will concede I am incorrect if I am. Anecdotally, my own mother is struggling to find a job at that level in a high immigrant area, and It isn't because she is "becky with 1 gcse" or whatever.
    She can't get a job at KFC or McDonalds?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...el-since-2005/
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    (Original post by jneill)
    So what are they doing, sitting on their pre-crash millions not claiming JSA or other benefits?
    Varies. Some may be living off of benefits, some may be living off of crime. Some are self-employed. It varies by person.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Varies. Some may be living off of benefits, some may be living off of crime. Some are self-employed. It varies by person.
    If they are "living off crime" they are also likely to be claiming JSA. They are nice like that.

    If they are self-employed they aren't unemployed...
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, I am not saying they work harder. I am saying that if their English is poor then they should be behind a UK worker that applies for the same position.

    I doubt the money is even that significant considering they don't even get paid that much. Anyway, that money is indirectly taxed when it is sent through Money orders and etc.

    Even ignoring that issue, using your logic, we shouldn't be buying things from abroad using our wages since that money isn't directly being feed into our economy.

    Them getting payed that much isn't relevant, it should be more about them contributing to society, public or private sector.

    Yes, I don't think we necessarily should, if we prioritised our economy.

    (Original post by DorianGrayism)

    She can't get a job at KFC or McDonalds?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...el-since-2005/
    She can't work there, she is permanently ill.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    If they are "living off crime" they are also likely to be claiming JSA. They are nice like that.

    If they are self-employed they aren't unemployed...
    Yes, but they also aren't in the workforce necessarily either.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Them getting payed that much isn't relevant, it should be more about them contributing to society, public or private sector.

    Yes, I don't think we necessarily should, if we prioritised our economy..
    Well, it is important, because if they are not sending much out of the economy it isn't having a huge effect.

    In response to your last point, you will eventually be beaten by the Free Market.

    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    She can't work there, she is permanently ill.
    OK...I don't really want to get into a discussion about your family. At the end of the day, I am not going to say whether I think your mum should or should not work because it is inappropriate for me to do so.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, it is important, because if they are not sending much out of the economy it isn't having a huge effect.

    In response to your last point, you will eventually be beaten by the Free Market.


    Isn't it? Citation needed.

    Also, in this country we have a mostly service-based economy. Now, your point would make sense if we were still an industrial power, however, service providing companies cannot necessarily move the jobs elsewhere. I mean, how is a British person supposed to buy a big mac if the McDonald's has moved to Warsaw?

    (Original post by DorianGrayism)

    OK...I don't really want to get into a discussion about your family. At the end of the day, I am not going to say whether I think your mum should or should not work because it is inappropriate for me to do so.
    Neither do I, I was just pointing out that it isn't necessarily applicable in my situation.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yes, but they also aren't in the workforce necessarily either.
    Wot? If they are claiming JSA then are included in the (relatively low) unemployment figures. If they are self-employed then they ARE in the workforce... because they are WORKING for themselves.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Wot? If they are claiming JSA then are included in the (relatively low) unemployment figures. If they are self-employed then they ARE in the workforce... because they are WORKING for themselves.
    Well, from what I can tell from a quick search, there is a distinction between a worker and a freelancer apparently. Why would something that isn't a worker be in the workforce?

    https://www.crunch.co.uk/blog/contra...e-or-a-worker/

    I may well be wrong, but It is just my impression. I think I am being an idiot here but hey.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Isn't it? Citation needed.

    Also, in this country we have a mostly service-based economy. Now, your point would make sense if we were still an industrial power, however, service providing companies cannot necessarily move the jobs elsewhere. I mean, how is a British person supposed to buy a big mac if the McDonald's has moved to Warsaw?
    You agreed they are not paid much. Therefore, there are not going to send much money out. In any case, it is indirectly taxed.

    You just said that we shouldn't be spending money on buying cheaper goods from abroad. That has nothing to do with service jobs or McDonalds.

    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Neither do I, I was just pointing out that it isn't necessarily applicable in my situation.
    Well, if it isn't applicable then I don't know why you brought it up.

    Clearly, the average EU migrant hasn't got an illness stopping them from working, so I don't know why you are comparing them to your mother.
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Well, from what I can tell from a quick search, there is a distinction between a worker and a freelancer apparently. Why would something that isn't a worker be in the workforce?

    https://www.crunch.co.uk/blog/contra...e-or-a-worker/

    I may well be wrong, but It is just my impression. I think I am being an idiot here but hey.
    A contractor, freelancer, business director, business owner, self-employed person are all regarded as "workers" for unemployment stats purposes.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    You agreed they are not paid much. Therefore, there are not going to send much money out. In any case, it is indirectly taxed.

    You just said that we shouldn't be spending money on buying cheaper goods from abroad. That has nothing to do with service jobs or McDonalds.
    .

    Per person maybe, but don't forget, there is a large number of them (around 5% of our population, or around 3.2 million). Well, by being beaten by the free market, what I assumed you meant was that, if the EU migrants remain in their country and are paid less or whatever, the businesses will move.

    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, if it isn't applicable then I don't know why you brought it up.

    Clearly, the average EU migrant hasn't got an illness stopping them from working, so I don't know why you are comparing them to your mother.
    Well, I'm not, I am comparing the British people who need to work. A lot of them are ill, and a lot of them are idiots with no qualifications, so it is somewhat of an equivalent handicap even in fast food jobs.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    You are being selective as you took out the other. They can have more say over their laws and economy, and less stifling bureaucracy, and don't have to waste money to the EU either their staff or subsidizing poorer countries.
    You do realise they pay a large subsidy to the EU for access to the single market?
    They still have to comply with all the laws for trading within the EU. Norway adopts about 70% of EU directives.
    http://www.eu-norway.org/Global/Site...r_1.pdf#page=6
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    (Original post by hippohops)
    What do you think might happen now the UK has voted to leave the EU? Do you think they will agree to stay in the EEA? Or not? Will they make a system like Australia's where you must get a job offer etc.?

    If anyone has any ideas or thoughts or knowledge to share, please enlighten me.

    I wanted to leave the UK in the future and become citizen in another EU country, but I am afraid I won't be able to now, if it will become much harder for a normal person. I had a plan before but now I have no idea how things will be.

    I don't want this to be a debate about the Brexit results, I just want to discuss what might happen so that maybe I can get an idea of how to plan for whatever result.
    All depends what Teresa wants to negotiate. Because she is a remainer I think she will regard access to the single market as important and will see less of a problem with free movement of people.

    You have jsut over 2 years to become a citizen of the other country or you will be applying as a non eu citizen. I cnat see whatever agreement is negotiated allowing UK citizens the right to become citizens in other EU countries. Any restrictions we impose on them will be imposed right back.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    I cnat see whatever agreement is negotiated allowing UK citizens the right to become citizens in other EU countries. Any restrictions we impose on them will be imposed right back.
    Do you mean this will happen if the UK decides to stop free movement and such things?

    thanks for your reply
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    This article says what Theresa May has said about EU immigration:
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...dership-battle

    ... So after reading that I don't really understand what exactly she plans to do / or wants to get agreed in regards to freedom of movement.
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    (Original post by hippohops)
    Do you mean this will happen if the UK decides to stop free movement and such things?

    thanks for your reply
    You wont be in the EU so you wont have EU citizen rights.
    Whether you have free movement rights depneds on the negotiation and how important access to the single market is.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You wont be in the EU so you wont have EU citizen rights.
    Whether you have free movement rights depneds on the negotiation and how important access to the single market is.
    I get what you mean. I guess we will see what happens. It is hard to wait.

    Either way, I am sad to see all the hatred towards other people that has come about after the results. I don't know why people have so much hatred inside. We are all human
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    (Original post by hippohops)
    This article says what Theresa May has said about EU immigration:
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...dership-battle

    ... So after reading that I don't really understand what exactly she plans to do / or wants to get agreed in regards to freedom of movement.
    She is using freedom of movement as part of her negotiation strategy.

    It's *likely* we will retain freedom of movement but nothing in this world is certain anymore...

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