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B1009 – United Kingdom Restructuring Bill 2016 Watch

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    (Original post by SoggyCabbages)
    Oh my gosh does UKIP have no idea about geography?Great Britain is a geographical location. You can't change that.



    Northern Ireland is in the United Kingdom you jellyfish.

    The full name of the UK is 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Nay.

    Please read up on it.
    You have tried to be clever but you did not read the full bill because the notes use the wrong terminology, the mistake would be easy to spot if the content was read. This bill has two parts to it, the first part is to redefine what Great Britain is to include all of the islands in the British Isles, the second part is to redefine the United Kingdom to include all of the British Overseas Territories: the bill is similar to moves taken by the Netherlands a few years ago.

    Aph the bill does not include provision for representation in the House of Commons for the countries incorporated in to the new Untied Kingdom because there is not a need for representation, the level of independence the countries have will remains the same, but the British Overseas Territories label will be replaced with the United Kingdom label. The new Great Britain will include the areas in the British Isles, where there are provisions in the bill for Parliamentary representation when there is no Parliamentary representation. A good point with this bill that is not included in the notes, is the closer integration with the Channel Islands reduces the ability of Jersey to be a tax haven that takes potential revenue away from the Treasury.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There is also no real demand for unficiation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...rthern_Ireland

    Even the Catholics would rather the status quo be maintained. Unionists have always had a majority of seats. Every year the majority want to remain part of the UK, and almost as many people want direct rule as want reunification. The nationalists are like Yorkshire First but more violent.
    Shows to me that consistently support for a united Ireland falls around 20%, which suggests around a fifth of the population backs it, and has gone as high as 30% in the last ten years. Seems to me there is a significant minority which UKIP are trying their best to piss off her
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    You have tried to be clever but you did not read the full bill because the notes use the wrong terminology, the mistake would be easy to spot if the content was read. This bill has two parts to it, the first part is to redefine what Great Britain is to include all of the islands in the British Isles, the second part is to redefine the United Kingdom to include all of the British Overseas Territories: the bill is similar to moves taken by the Netherlands a few years ago.
    I did read the bill, I understand what you mean. You want to create a Federal union called the UK, which includes GB and other Commonwealth nations. Fair dos.

    I just don't support the idea of changing the name of an Island to mean more than one Island.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Shows to me that consistently support for a united Ireland falls around 20%, which suggests around a fifth of the population backs it, and has gone as high as 30% in the last ten years. Seems to me there is a significant minority which UKIP are trying their best to piss off her
    I think it's prime time for a referendum, then again I guess the nationalists are even worse losers than the 4m remainers who signed the petition, the remainers got annoyed at a 4% loss, the nats would probably start killing people over the 40% loss.
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    (Original post by SoggyCabbages)
    I did read the bill, I understand what you mean. You want to create a Federal union called the UK, which includes GB and other Commonwealth nations. Fair dos.

    I just don't support the idea of changing the name of an Island to mean more than one Island.
    I feel the same. :s:
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I think it's prime time for a referendum, then again I guess the nationalists are even worse losers than the 4m remainers who signed the petition, the remainers got annoyed at a 4% loss, the nats would probably start killing people over the 40% loss.
    Given the wikipedia article you linked has an opinion poll from 2015 saying 36% want unification, 35% want it to remain as is and 9% want to cede power back to Westminister I don't think you'd be seeing that magic 40% loss you've predicted
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    You have tried to be clever but you did not read the full bill because the notes use the wrong terminology, the mistake would be easy to spot if the content was read. This bill has two parts to it, the first part is to redefine what Great Britain is to include all of the islands in the British Isles, the second part is to redefine the United Kingdom to include all of the British Overseas Territories: the bill is similar to moves taken by the Netherlands a few years ago.

    Aph the bill does not include provision for representation in the House of Commons for the countries incorporated in to the new Untied Kingdom because there is not a need for representation, the level of independence the countries have will remains the same, but the British Overseas Territories label will be replaced with the United Kingdom label. The new Great Britain will include the areas in the British Isles, where there are provisions in the bill for Parliamentary representation when there is no Parliamentary representation. A good point with this bill that is not included in the notes, is the closer integration with the Channel Islands reduces the ability of Jersey to be a tax haven that takes potential revenue away from the Treasury.
    If this is just a titular change and nothing more then what's the point? I support their intergration but it should be with proper change and representation not simply calling them inside.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    If this is just a titular change and nothing more then what's the point? I support their intergration but it should be with proper change and representation not simply calling them inside.
    I have drawn up this image to better explain it; all parts of the new Great Britain will have Parliamentary representation. As it stands, there is no clear definitions for what British interests are, this bill aims to clearly define British interests by incorporating all areas where Britain has direct influence into the United Kingdom.

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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Given the wikipedia article you linked has an opinion poll from 2015 saying 36% want unification, 35% want it to remain as is and 9% want to cede power back to Westminister I don't think you'd be seeing that magic 40% loss you've predicted
    Umm, that's what RoI think, not NI.
    The LucidTalk poll gives a 20% majority to the status quo, The IpsosMori poll (using the age one as the basis because it's the eaiest to calculate from) give it more like 50%, and the QUB/UU polls consistently give a similar outcome.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I have drawn up this image to better explain it; all parts of the new Great Britain will have Parliamentary representation. As it stands, there is no clear definitions for what British interests are, this bill aims to clearly define British interests by incorporating all areas where Britain has direct influence into the United Kingdom.

    The bill doesn't make provisions for parliamentary representation again... Even if it's for what the bill should refer to as the islands of Britain.

    And also there should be referendums.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    I have drawn up this image to better explain it; all parts of the new Great Britain will have Parliamentary representation.
    Forgive me if this is slightly ignorant. If all parts of the new GB are to have Parliamentary representation, do you mean Gibraltarians MPs sitting in the Commons or what?
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    (Original post by SoggyCabbages)
    Forgive me if this is slightly ignorant. If all parts of the new GB are to have Parliamentary representation, do you mean Gibraltarians MPs sitting in the Commons or what?
    No, the new Great Britain would not include Gibraltar because Gibraltar is an overseas territory, the only addition Parliamentary representation needed is for the Channel Islands where there are no MPs; the rest of the areas of the new Great Britain currently have Parliamentary representation.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Umm, that's what RoI think, not NI.
    The LucidTalk poll gives a 20% majority to the status quo, The IpsosMori poll (using the age one as the basis because it's the eaiest to calculate from) give it more like 50%, and the QUB/UU polls consistently give a similar outcome.
    I'm unwell, apologise I read the wrong poll. I would still argue however that I don't think we would see such a drumming, I would expect something like 60/65%-40/35%, given the consistent polling of around 20% for unification, plus the spikes up towards 30% within the last ten years. Add to that the unknowns, plus the average sinn fein voter who might not normally back unification but might be won over in the course of the debate leading up to the vote.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    I'm unwell, apologise I read the wrong poll. I would still argue however that I don't think we would see such a drumming, I would expect something like 60/65%-40/35%, given the consistent polling of around 20% for unification, plus the spikes up towards 30% within the last ten years. Add to that the unknowns, plus the average sinn fein voter who might not normally back unification but might be won over in the course of the debate leading up to the vote.
    Regardless, by no measure can unification win, especially when remaining in the union has for over a decade ALWAYS been the majority, and even among the demographics one would expect strongest nationalism unionism has the plurality, no matter how much DMG wants to believe otherwise.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    No, the new Great Britain would not include Gibraltar because Gibraltar is an overseas territory, the only addition Parliamentary representation needed is for the Channel Islands where there are no MPs; the rest of the areas of the new Great Britain currently have Parliamentary representation.
    Ummmmmmm no the isle of Mann doesn't?
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    No, the new Great Britain would not include Gibraltar because Gibraltar is an overseas territory, the only addition Parliamentary representation needed is for the Channel Islands where there are no MPs; the rest of the areas of the new Great Britain currently have Parliamentary representation.
    Sorry I wrote Gibraltar but had Channel Islands in my head, was getting confused.

    I assume the status and everday practices of the Jerseyan Assembly, the 'States of Jersey' (and Guernsey etc) will remain the same?

    How many new MPs will this create?
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    The bill is not the complete as there is a section missing but for the second reading all areas of the new Great Britain will have Parliamentary representation at the same ratio of MP to number of constituents as is the average ratio for constituents to MP in Britain.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Regardless, by no measure can unification win, especially when remaining in the union has for over a decade ALWAYS been the majority, and even among the demographics one would expect strongest nationalism unionism has the plurality, no matter how much DMG wants to believe otherwise.
    But at the same time it would be foolish to write off those who do want unification, they are still a significant minority, and to try and ignore their concerns and wishes would cause alienation and resentment.
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    Nay. UKIP have never visited the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands it seems.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    But at the same time it would be foolish to write off those who do want unification, they are still a significant minority, and to try and ignore their concerns and wishes would cause alienation and resentment.
    The very nature of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, and if you're not in the majority you either move, try to convince the majority, or simply live with it. The idea we should pander to 20% when they're outnumbered 5:2 in their views is simply absurd.
 
 
 
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