Corbyn ratings at - 41% after 10 months in the job Watch

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(Original post by Davij038)
I think the labour oarty is essentially a walking corpse that's far too gone. Decent Labour MPs (of which there are many) are trung to resuscitate it but even if by some miracle they get rid of Corbyn I thinks it's far too late. It will be best for the brunt of MPs to leave En masse and either fight again as part of a genuine, non regressive centre left platform or at least go out fighting for what they believe in than go down for something they don't, or else beaten out by people who think Stalin was a better man than Blair et al.

I think w
Everyone would be better off if the Corbynites joined the greens and formed a Socialist Patty and if the bulk of the PLP joined the lib dems and formed another SDP.
I don't think people want a centre-left progressive platform anymore. People are angry and scared and when people are like that, they seek comfort in the far right.
Labour is being asked to be too many things to too many people. Tory-Labour swing voters want it to be effectively a tory-lite policy, supporting unrestricted capitalism and privatisation but taxing it a little. Traditonally working class voters want Labour to become a socially conservative party opposed to immigration and the welfare state. Voters in Scotland wanted Labour to be more left wing and when they elected Corbyn it made little difference.

Meanwhile Labour's middle class, young supporters want it to be a very liberal, left wing party.

It simply cannot do all of these things at once. Miliband tried and just ended up pleasing no one and leaking support everywhere.

I hope the Lib Dems recover and form a pact with moderate Labour MPs and perhaps even some moderate tory MPs but even then I can't see it changing all that much.
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DropletInfection
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#22
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Corbyn is King. Rule Britannia Britannia rule the waves. Britons shall never be slaved
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Davij038
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(Original post by Bornblue)
I don't think people want a centre-left progressive platform anymore. People are angry and scared and when people are like that, they seek comfort in the far right.
Labour is being asked to be too many things to too many people. Tory-Labour swing voters want it to be effectively a tory-lite policy, supporting unrestricted capitalism and privatisation but taxing it a little. Traditonally working class voters want Labour to become a socially conservative party opposed to immigration and the welfare state. Voters in Scotland wanted Labour to be more left wing and when they elected Corbyn it made little difference.

Meanwhile Labour's middle class, young supporters want it to be a very liberal, left wing party.

It simply cannot do all of these things at once. Miliband tried and just ended up pleasing no one and leaking support everywhere.
Yes in deed- this is why we need PR as the only way for our political system to really work.

I hope the Lib Dems recover and form a pact with moderate Labour MPs and perhaps even some moderate tory MPs but even then I can't see it changing all that much.
Ultimately this, but first brexit needs to be given time. If brexit is a measurable success*, the Pro EU moderate position is doomed (and rightly so) and we moderate social democrats need to massively rethink if not abandon many of our political beliefs.

*[stronger and fairer economy, less immigration]

if it isn't, hopefully they can be there to win against the debunked populist right and eventually rejoin the EU after a good does of humble pie. This may seem unlikely, and indeed it is but we should not forget that young people voted massively to stay in and of course are far better educated than their parents and grandparents.
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username878267
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(Original post by Davij038)
Yes in deed- this is why we need PR as the only way for our political system to really work.



Ultimately this, but first brexit needs to be given time. If brexit is a measurable success*, the Pro EU moderate position is doomed (and rightly so) and we moderate social democrats need to massively rethink if not abandon many of our political beliefs.

*[stronger and fairer economy, less immigration]

if it isn't, hopefully they can be there to win against the debunked populist right and eventually rejoin the EU after a good does of humble pie. This may seem unlikely, and indeed it is but we should not forget that young people voted massively to stay in and of course are far better educated than their parents and grandparents.
My hope is that things go in cycles. In the 80s people were saying Labour were finished and in the 90s they won a majority of over 100.
Then in the 2000s people were saying that the Tory party were finished and now they have a majority.

Things can change quickly and perhaps they will but I am struggling to see it at the moment. Whichever way Labour goes and whichever leader it chooses, it will leak support somewhere.

The tories are able to appeal with only a small UKIP threat. Labour have bigger threats in every direction.

I think anyone who feels that Labour's problems can be solved by a simple change in leader is deluded. Unless there is an Obama type, once in a generation candidate I just cannot see it.
For decades now various leaders have been able to patch the various Labour factions together. Kinnock did it,Blair did it, Brown did it, Miliband did it, although less convincingly. But it became harder each time and now under Corbyn we are seeing those very fragile bonds smash.
Sorry to sound all depressive about it but I really do feel we are seeing the fatal demise of Labour.

The Tories disagreements, apart from the EU seem more to do with power stuggles whereas Labour's are of huge political and ideological differences.
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RuWill2001
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Source?

I imagine this is a poll? If anyone still trusts the polls they need to visit the doctor.
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abc:)
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So... I am pretty left wing and I vote Labour. I would never vote Tory and don't align myself with their values. I can't stand Jeremy Corbyn, and I also think his Blairite opponents are childish and naive and idiotic. Neither Conservatives nor Labour work for me. A vote for another party is a waste. The only party I really like is SNP, and I'm bloody English!! Wth do I do... other than move to Scotland lol
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abc:)
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(Original post by RuWill2001)
Source? I imagine this is a poll? If anyone still trusts the polls they need to visit the doctor.
It is a poll, I think it's from Ipsos Mori? Take them with a pinch of salt but I think you're digging your own grave if you ignore them...
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by TercioOfParma)
Even though I despise Corbyn, I think I may just join the party for a month in order to vote him back in so there can be a truly socialist party in this country, as without them the Conservatives and Labour are quite similar.
This could not be more wrong. For a start we would not have had an EU ref under labour... quite difference to how today looks no?
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skeptical_john
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#29
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(Original post by RuWill2001)
Source?

I imagine this is a poll? If anyone still trusts the polls they need to visit the doctor.
True, quite often polls over represent labour (as in 2015/2016) so it is probably even worse.

(Original post by Bornblue)
I don't think people want a centre-left progressive platform anymore. People are angry and scared and when people are like that, they seek comfort in the far right.
Labour is being asked to be too many things to too many people. Tory-Labour swing voters want it to be effectively a tory-lite policy, supporting unrestricted capitalism and privatisation but taxing it a little. Traditonally working class voters want Labour to become a socially conservative party opposed to immigration and the welfare state. Voters in Scotland wanted Labour to be more left wing and when they elected Corbyn it made little difference.

Meanwhile Labour's middle class, young supporters want it to be a very liberal, left wing party.

It simply cannot do all of these things at once. Miliband tried and just ended up pleasing no one and leaking support everywhere.

I hope the Lib Dems recover and form a pact with moderate Labour MPs and perhaps even some moderate tory MPs but even then I can't see it changing all that much.

Centre left politics is doing quite well in many countries. It's becoming hard in Britain in large part down to the aging population. Older people do not require state intervention so much.

(Original post by abc:))
So... I am pretty left wing and I vote Labour. I would never vote Tory and don't align myself with their values. I can't stand Jeremy Corbyn, and I also think his Blairite opponents are childish and naive and idiotic. Neither Conservatives nor Labour work for me. A vote for another party is a waste. The only party I really like is SNP, and I'm bloody English!! Wth do I do... other than move to Scotland lol
spend some time reviewing SNP policies and you will find they are not very left wing at all.
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username878267
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
True, quite often polls over represent labour (as in 2015/2016) so it is probably even worse.




Centre left politics is doing quite well in many countries. It's becoming hard in Britain in large part down to the aging population. Older people do not require state intervention so much. * *
It's simply being squeezed out here as there is little appetite fur centre left politics other than in London and a few other urban cities.

*
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Bornblue)
It's simply being squeezed out here as there is little appetite fur centre left politics other than in London and a few other urban cities.

*
yes except for london, scotland, wales, a lot of the north and a few urban cities there's no desire for center left politics. If a capable leader can put a coherent message across then there's no reason why it could not win.
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Supersaps
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
Opposition leader ratings after 10 months

Foot -32
Kinnock -7
Smith +1
Blair +29
Hague -16
IDS -9
Howard -15
Cameron -1
Miliband -7
Corbyn -41
Source? Approval amoungst whom?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7134761.htmlFrom the Ipso/Mori poll taken 2 days ago, this article clearly states:

- Theresa May 55% approval

- Jezza 25% approval
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Supersaps
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Jezza has 45% approval with Labour voters vs 81% for Theresa May for Conservatives.


But there are only 3 labour supporters left in the whole country so....


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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Supersaps)
Source? Approval amoungst whom?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7134761.htmlFrom the Ipso/Mori poll taken 2 days ago, this article clearly states:

- Theresa May 55% approval

- Jezza 25% approval
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it's that article you linked!

"A total of 65 per cent of those polled said they were dissatisfied with the Labour leader’s performance.

Just 24 per cent say he is doing a good job."

24-65 is a net approval of -41
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username878267
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
yes except for london, scotland, wales, a lot of the north and a few urban cities there's no desire for center left politics. If a capable leader can put a coherent message across then there's no reason why it could not win.
There's *no desire for it up north or in Wales apart from a few urban cities. Up north, where people voted to leave, people tend to be socially conservative and economically protectionist. They want a Labour Party that will oppose immigration and the welfare state, that's not centre left.
*
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Poor Corby
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(Original post by Bornblue)
There's *no desire for it up north or in Wales apart from a few urban cities. Up north, where people voted to leave, people tend to be socially conservative and economically protectionist. They want a Labour Party that will oppose immigration and the welfare state, that's not centre left.
*
I certainty grant you there is a difference in opinion between labour immigration policy and what the north thinks however it does not want a smaller welfare state. Sure there is support for things like the welfare cap but any in work benefits or cuts to the NHS/pensions/infrastructure would be thoroughly opposed. That is specifically why UKIP have changed their rhetoric to try and win north voters. UKIP were originally for privatising the NHS and very libertarian this has changed over the last 6 years.
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Supersaps
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
it's that article you linked!

"A total of 65 per cent of those polled said they were dissatisfied with the Labour leader’s performance.

Just 24 per cent say he is doing a good job."

24-65 is a net approval of -41

Oh! I'm such a dunce!

I thought it was just a hyphen marking bullet points not a minus sign...


**** it, it's Friday!

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username878267
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
I certainty grant you there is a difference in opinion between labour immigration policy and what the north thinks however it does not want a smaller welfare state. Sure there is support for things like the welfare cap but any in work benefits or cuts to the NHS/pensions/infrastructure would be thoroughly opposed. That is specifically why UKIP have changed their rhetoric to try and win north voters. UKIP were originally for privatising the NHS and very libertarian this has changed over the last 6 years.
A centre left viewpoint though brings with it liberal attitudes towards immigration. If Labour did become very protectionist and started to nationalise industries then it would lose lots of middle England votes to the tories.

It's between a rock and a hard place.
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(Original post by abc:))
So... I am pretty left wing and I vote Labour. I would never vote Tory and don't align myself with their values. I can't stand Jeremy Corbyn, and I also think his Blairite opponents are childish and naive and idiotic. Neither Conservatives nor Labour work for me. A vote for another party is a waste. The only party I really like is SNP, and I'm bloody English!! Wth do I do... other than move to Scotland lol
Lib Dems? I think many left-wing voters will be looking towards a revival of the Lib Dems who will be contesting the centre ground as well as the left-wing.
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